SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[null]

The hug… led up to the kiss? The kiss… is Cloud wanting more of what he got from the hug?

You mean… all those confident sounding randos who spent the last few years explaining how Cloud holding Tifa tightly isn’t romantic were misunderstanding a very straightforward scene? Gasp.

 

[Skilganon]

The way the devs often talk about the CT kiss is telling: "We know fans have been waiting for a long time."

This is not something they would say if Tifa was just a side character or if the romance was optional. This line indicates that the devs themselves have thought about it. They've wanted to show/depict a CT kiss for a long time.

 

[null]

It has been hilarious seeing the react to this interview dropping in real time and the copes adjusting in real time. Apparently the current cope is that the kiss is just a branch event and not the main narrative (Ignore Gongaga please), despite, you know, all the dates existing to show the development of Cloud's relationships, and that they are all true to his character such that which one happened in continuity is actually irrelevant.

EDIT TO ADD: And apparently calling it a branch is based on Hamguchi talking about the resolution scene branches from Remake, which A: are all branch events and B: all happened in continuity.

My favorite cope of the day: since hugs lead to kisses, Hamaguchi is really saying Aerith will get a kiss in part 3.

 

[Hellenic]

My favorite cope of the day: since hugs lead to kisses, Hamaguchi is really saying Aerith will get a kiss in part 3.

Yeah i don't know how they came to the conclusion that Cloud having these growth build ups between the games with Tifa will somehow lead to a kiss with a dead Aerith.

At this point these people are just spouting whatever nonsense couse they can't deal with the truth and i'm just too tired of it at this point. I just want the next game to come out already so the rest of these dumbasses can just leave the fandom.

 

[Ryeleigh]

My favorite cope of the day: since hugs lead to kisses, Hamaguchi is really saying Aerith will get a kiss in part 3.

I'm sure Aerith will get a kiss. With Zack.

But more seriously, I'm really looking forward to their reunion. I want it already, lol.

 

[Nancy]

My favorite cope of the day: since hugs lead to kisses, Hamaguchi is really saying Aerith will get a kiss in part 3.

Like I mention/said before, if Hamaguchi decided to give Cloud and Aerith a kiss in part 3 it will be Aerith kissing Cloud on the cheek goodbye

 

[null]

Yeah i don't know how they came to the conclusion that Cloud having these growth build ups between the games with Tifa will somehow lead to a kiss with a dead Aerith.

At this point these people are just spouting whatever nonsense couse they can't deal with the truth and i'm just too tired of it at this point. I just want the next game to come out already so the rest of these dumbasses can just leave the fandom.

Meanwhile in the My Hero Academia fandom: OH MAH GAAAWD FINAL CHAPTER NOT CANON BECAUSE REASONS!!!! Sorry, anyone who didn’t see that ending coming was too busy swimming in a river in Egypt for the last 10 years.

We need a better word for delusional single-issue voting fans than ”shippers”. Normal people who like Cloud and Aerith together are shippers. They’re not the problem.

I'm sure Aerith will get a kiss. With Zack.

But more seriously, I'm really looking forward to their reunion. I want it already, lol

No joke, I’m really starting to drink the kool aid. They’re not going to leave Aerith fans without a present under the tree.

 

[Eerie]

Yeah as time passed, I also went to "there is probably going to be a ZA kiss", a bit ironically because of a comment made by Maiden who said something along the lines that it was unfair that only Tifa got kissed and she wanted Aerith to get a kiss too. Add that to Toriyama I think commenting on how they knew fans wanted for the longest time a kiss (between Cloud and Tifa), it made me think that yeah, they're not going to leave Aerith in the dust and she'll get her kiss with Zack.

They also hyped up their reunion like woah since Remake and through Rebirth, so I think it HAS to be good and thus we'll get their kiss there. In the church, where Zack was sitting last, finally defeated.

 

[lyingbanana]

Normal people who like Cloud and Aerith together are shippers. They’re not the problem.

Yeah thats why I find it difficult to use the term "cleriths" when talking about some of the stuff the most extreme part of that fandom spew because I ran into the same issue.

 

[Skilganon]

I think a ZA kiss would be more demoralizing to the hardcore CAs than the CT kiss. From what I read, a lot of them are disappointed, but think that SE is trying to "be equal" between the two love interests, that both Aerith and Tifa get their moments. A ZA kiss would blow that concept out of the water.

Also, a lot of CAs seem to view Zack as an inferior copy of Cloud (ironic, I know), and would feel downright insulted by a ZA kiss. Like they were being thrown a bone. I believe there was a Valentine's Day post made by SE a few years back when CC Reunion was released and it was met by widespread scorn by CA shippers. The response was overwhelmingly negative.

I don't think we are prepared for what will happen if Zack and Aerith kiss in some kind of afterlife world. Brianna White is probably going to lose a LOT of subs to her twitch.

 

[eleamaya]

Talking about how Cleriths would response if Zerith was endgame, this is a good thread in Twitter.
x.com
Though, why @Ryushikaze replied here lol, you're not the target of the OP

 

[null]

I can't see Twitter replies anymore. Any highlights?

If SE was really worried about upsetting Aerith fans, they would have given her an optional kiss while she was alive. That was their golden opportunity to shut everyone up. Tifa fans wouldn't complain because they got theirs and they know what's coming next. But Aerith didn't get a kiss at all, even though player choice factored into both her major dates, and that was her own decision as much as Cloud's.

The hardcore fans should already be losing their shit over the unequal treatment in Rebirth, and they would be, except they're somehow convinced a Cloud kiss is absolutely, positively coming to even the score. But they just kicked the riot down the road a few years. Aerith already said goodbye. She's not available for Cloud to kiss anymore. All that awaits in part three is an empty airship and the moonlit field next to it.

And maybe a rendezvous with Zack down in the sparkly stuff. Or: how we all learned to stop worrying and Embrace Our Dreams.

 

[Xannis]

I can't see Twitter replies anymore. Any highlights?

Mostly what you would expect and totally what I expect if they go this route. There are a few (very few) "I'd be fine with it". Bulk of them, however, are basically saying there hasn't been enough build up/narrative support for ZA. Which of course I shake my head at. I can get if you don't like ZA. I can get the "chemistry" arguments around ships. I can get behind being disappointed that the ship you wanted didn't win. I can get behind almost any argument other than "There wasn't any build up or writing for ZA". I think if you take that position accounting for Crisis Core + Re-Trilogy you're not being honest about it. Or you've just got your goggles on.

Romances have started from far less build up than ZA have so claiming there isn't a base there is just wild to me.

I mean heck...the only reason I can come up with that they've added so much Zack to Re-Trilogy in the first place is specifically to make it make sense when they (ZA) re-unite. I suspect most of the scenes they added for Zack were trying to proactively address that very complaint.

Edit: Funny though I did catch one Clerith in that thread that said they'd be ok with ZA but only if Cloud and Tifa didn't end up together. WTF?

 

[Pasuwado]

''There was no buildup or writing for ZA''. Honestly, that's delusional on their part.

Where does Zack end up at the end of Rebirth? The church.
Where does Zack fight Sephiroth? The church.
Who heals Zack? Aerith.
Who is Zack doing all of this for? Aerith.
Who follows the yellow flowers and is being guided through the Lifestream by Aerith? Zack.
Who does Zack promise he'll find a way for? Aerith.
We have Aerith admitting she sees Zack in Cloud.
We have Cloud remembering that Zack loves Aerith.
We have Zack in Nibelheim talking to Cloud about how much he likes Aerith.
We even have Aerith admitting she still has feelings for Zack.

And the question we need to ask for all of this is "Why?"

Why would they include all these scenes if there isn’t going to be a payoff?

If the goal is to show Aerith moving past Zack, you don’t spend your limited screen time on these moments.

All of this works to maximize the connection between Aerith and Zack, when what you’d need to do to sell Clerith is minimize it.

Oh, but why does Marlene say what she says to Zack?
Drama. Tension. To create doubt that gets resolved later in the same chapter by Aerith herself.

Not to mention, it sets up a necessary conversation between Zack and Aerith in Part 3.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Meanwhile in the My Hero Academia fandom: OH MAH GAAAWD FINAL CHAPTER NOT CANON BECAUSE REASONS!!!! Sorry, anyone who didn’t see that ending coming was too busy swimming in a river in Egypt for the last 10 years.

We need a better word for delusional single-issue voting fans than ”shippers”. Normal people who like Cloud and Aerith together are shippers. They’re not the problem.

You know, I barely read Bleach when it was running, definitely wasn't keeping up with Naruto, I only watched the first seasons of both MHA and AOT, and yet I have correctly guessed the endgame ship in every single one of them. At times I have to wonder if I'm just really good at this, or if other people are just really really bad at it.
(I also guessed the twist in Divergent from just a description of the setting, for added context)

Talking about how Cleriths would response if Zerith was endgame, this is a good thread in Twitter.
x.com
Though, why @Ryushikaze replied here lol, you're not the target of the OP

It came up in my feed and I made a prediction. And I got a response that was the perfect example of what I was saying.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Talking about how Cleriths would response if Zerith was endgame, this is a good thread in Twitter.
x.com

- pretty sure they're gonna be in denial mode ~ they are like that for 25 years now~ imagine Cloti kiss and Hamaguichi and the rest of the devs are clarifying this is a growth for Cloud and yet they still believe it was out of Jealousy ~

''There was no buildup or writing for ZA''. Honestly, that's delusional on their part.

- the Last date of Aerith is seems like she's shouting Zack's in his heart but looking at Cloud because he's the person in front of her.. and Zack literally moving to different worlds just to see her..

 

[Skilganon]

I think the mixed media style of SE storytelling has largely been a mistake. You shouldn't have to play spinoff games or read novellas to get the full context for the story. I say this having played CC and read most of the novellas.

If part 3 does have a ZA reunion, I really hope they do a good job selling it, so any romantic resolutions don't feel like they come out of nowhere.

I don't think we can expect people who are deeply invested in CA to just switch and be okay with ZA. The dynamic is different, and we have no idea how SE is going to portray it in part 3.

 

[GamerSkull]

Well, I might agree as far as novels and movies are concerned but I think Crisis Core is too important to really be ignored.

Most CA fans likely ignore it because it promotes Zerith so heavily anyway. A lot of other newcomers seem to have no issue playing Crisis Core as it’s just another entry. And let’s be real… re-releasing it in the middle of Remake and Rebirth seems quite intentional in hindsight.

Anyway, as far as Zerith’s payoff is concerned… well, I would say it’s been set up heavily so anybody who claims it came out of nowhere or there’s no build up for it… well, just hasn’t been paying attention.

 

[null]

Oh totally agree about mixed media. We shouldn’t have to read half the plot of a movie beforehand, in a book that wasn’t included with the movie, on a website that wasn't even officially translated for years. I'd rather go the David Lynch route where everything is self-contained but he refuses to talk about it. Let's just play the game instead of being a bunch of Ultimania lawyers.

Sadly mixed media seems to have been normalized in Japan for ages.

 

[Hellenic]

Mostly what you would expect and totally what I expect if they go this route. There are a few (very few) "I'd be fine with it". Bulk of them, however, are basically saying there hasn't been enough build up/narrative support for ZA. Which of course I shake my head at. I can get if you don't like ZA. I can get the "chemistry" arguments around ships. I can get behind being disappointed that the ship you wanted didn't win. I can get behind almost any argument other than "There wasn't any build up or writing for ZA". I think if you take that position accounting for Crisis Core + Re-Trilogy you're not being honest about it. Or you've just got your goggles on.

I'd argue there is better build up towards ZA than CA even, but ofc people who can't put the goggles down won't see it.

''There was no buildup or writing for ZA''. Honestly, that's delusional on their part.

Where does Zack end up at the end of Rebirth? The church.
Where does Zack fight Sephiroth? The church.
Who heals Zack? Aerith.
Who is Zack doing all of this for? Aerith.
Who follows the yellow flowers and is being guided through the Lifestream by Aerith? Zack.
Who does Zack promise he'll find a way for? Aerith.
We have Aerith admitting she sees Zack in Cloud.
We have Cloud remembering that Zack loves Aerith.
We have Zack in Nibelheim talking to Cloud about how much he likes Aerith.
We even have Aerith admitting she still has feelings for Zack.

And the question we need to ask for all of this is "Why?"

Why would they include all these scenes if there isn’t going to be a payoff?

If the goal is to show Aerith moving past Zack, you don’t spend your limited screen time on these moments.

All of this works to maximize the connection between Aerith and Zack, when what you’d need to do to sell Clerith is minimize it.

Oh, but why does Marlene say what she says to Zack?
Drama. Tension. To create doubt that gets resolved later in the same chapter by Aerith herself.

Not to mention, it sets up a necessary conversation between Zack and Aerith in Part 3.

All this stuff here basically. Things someone who pays attention to and won't let their bias blind them would likely see.

I think the mixed media style of SE storytelling has largely been a mistake. You shouldn't have to play spinoff games or read novellas to get the full context for the story. I say this having played CC and read most of the novellas.

If part 3 does have a ZA reunion, I really hope they do a good job selling it, so any romantic resolutions don't feel like they come out of nowhere.

I don't think we can expect people who are deeply invested in CA to just switch and be okay with ZA. The dynamic is different, and we have no idea how SE is going to portray it in part 3.

I wouldn't say a person needs to play CC before to see that the game is building towards a ZA dynamic but i definitely think it helps to have played it and knowing and seeing this bond exists ahead of time to buy it better.

I don't think any of the novels or ultimanias and stuff is needed however. They enhance things but aren't necessary to get the general ideas.

Well, I might agree as far as novels and movies are concerned but I think Crisis Core is too important to really be ignored.

Most CA fans likely ignore it because it promotes Zerith so heavily anyway. A lot of other newcomers seem to have no issue playing Crisis Core as it’s just another entry. And let’s be real… re-releasing it in the middle of Remake and Rebirth seems quite intentional in hindsight.

Anyway, as far as Zerith’s payoff is concerned… well, I would say it’s been set up heavily so anybody who claims it came out of nowhere or there’s no build up for it… well, just hasn’t been paying attention.

At this point people who pretend CC is not an important piece of the FF7 story canon are just ignorant. No matter what they think about it, it's gonna and has affected where this trilogy is going.

ZA has definitely been built up heavily but people who ignore CC or just don't care to see that dynamic won't see it or just pretend it's not there.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I don't think we can expect people who are deeply invested in CA to just switch and be okay with ZA. The dynamic is different, and we have no idea how SE is going to portray it in part 3.

I hope this doesn't feel like I'm singling you out but this bothered me a bit because I think these kinds of phrases contribute to muddying and perpetuating debates about shipping (which is kind of what LTDs are about, at their core). So my apologies in advance but I'll use your comment as a springboard.

The thing is, whether people are deeply invested in CA or not, they have no reason or obligation to "switch" or even be okay with ZA. Both of those are purely subjective. No one is trying to "convert" others out of shipping their ship, whether they like them for their dynamic or aesthetics or whatever else.

The LTDs are usually about: stop lying about canon. Like, that's basically it, lol. People don't have to stop having fun with fanon, headcanons, and stuff they plain made up but that should be left to the realm of fan fics instead of discussions of what's actually in the text. People can ship CA, they can dislike ZA (which also applies the other way around, of course), but stop lying about their canonicity, lol. And you know, stop the harassment of creators and other fans, etc etc etc. Shipping is supposed to be fun, not a cult.

Of course, this is kind of simplified because there are a lot of factors that go into shipping and these discourses. But at their core these debates perpetuate because one side seems to think it's about shipping while the other side is just telling them to stop (intentionally or not) lying about the source material.

 

[frosty]

I can't see Twitter replies anymore. Any highlights?

Clotis very happy / feel vindicated / mocking Clerith takes / reposting all the media articles that covered it / hanging on the word "INTENTIONAL"

A small Clerith section hanging on tight to the OTHER word Hamaguchi used - "in a branching event that had Cloud hug Tifa in Remake..." - "BRANCHING" somehow now means "not canon"

Then you have the absolute fringe part posting under hamaguchi's posts saying - "So it's Aerith's turn for a kiss in part 3, right?"

"Neutrals" are mostly...."So they wanted to up the affection game in Rebirth from Remake...highwind scene impending, yes?"

 

[Xannis]

I think the mixed media style of SE storytelling has largely been a mistake. You shouldn't have to play spinoff games or read novellas to get the full context for the story. I say this having played CC and read most of the novellas.

Agree 100% with the premise. Especially when it comes to games which are much more significant time investment than say a movie. That being said, just my 2 cents, I think Re-Trilogy, as a stand alone laid more than enough ground work for ZA (excellent list from Pasuwado) and I suspect we'll get even more ZA "Background" as it were in Part 3.

 

[Pasuwado]

One thing I’m really curious about is how they’re going to handle that scene with Zack in the church that we saw at the end of Yuffie’s DLC. That scene doesn’t align with the events of Rebirth, so it must be connected to Part 3—or maybe it was the biggest troll Square Enix has ever pulled on Zack fans.

 

[Eerie]

"Neutrals" are mostly...."So they wanted to up the affection game in Rebirth from Remake...highwind scene impending, yes?"

Of course the HW scene is impending and there will be no more way to avoid it because, as SE has repeatedly said, it's the canon path in the OG. And I think that when he said what he said, Hamaguchi was very aware that people are seeing that there is a ramp up. Which is funny because that was also my argument when I told Peko "that's weird, it's a bit early but p2 should have a CT kiss, because of the hug in Remake, you know? Hug, kiss, sex, do you see it?"

Turns out, that was also Nojima's idea behind the hug.

Speaking of him, most hilarious tweet yesterday was the guy popping up on a random tweet of his to beg him to "not let Hamaguchi destroy his story" and "branching scene with Tifa and Cloud from hug to kiss to ***". L o l. I was like "that is called being unaware" lol.