SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

I always find it odd how shippers create this platonic/romantic binary and act like any fictional relationship has to be completely one or the other and these are the only options.

Well thank you, I am one of these people.

When you put it like that, you avoid talking about how SE present itself their heroes, how they are and what kind of values they push through them, especially towards their love interest: these boys may be heroic or not but they absolutely have only one love interest. They only kiss one girl when it happens at all, and push this as a value of "good" onto their characters. They are on the good side notably because they clearly have only one love interest. And just like they will not go after their best friend's girlfriend either (Cloud's potential interest was killed in Nibelheim, right when he remembered that Aerith was Zack's girlfriend).

But on a more meta level, the LS scene is truly a Cloud telling Tifa “it was you, I only have eyes for you, you are my world” moment - and that’s what makes any feeling for Aerith non-romantic. Cloud cannot be both “I fell for Aerith” and “Tifa is the only one” type of guy at the same time.

I always thought that

• The scene where if you get Aerith's date the first time in the Gold Saucer was to solidify Cloud's character as being pretty innocently oblivious to even aggressive flirtations with a tendency to dismiss it as friendship and Aerith getting huffy about it, I took it as her being, I'VE BEEN SHOWING YOU ALL THE SAME SIGNS YOU DUMBASSS"
• The scene in Nibelhiem where he was like "he was head over heels for Aerith" re. Zack, feels they should tell her about his "death" is being concerned about Aerith, and he wants to do the "right" thing and clearly not interested at pursing anything romantic at this point
• Tifa's date being - "She must still have feelings for Zack"

It all implies he was taken by surprise at the dream date, thinking she was still hung up on Zack - I felt the devs were going with his expression of more "oh damn, I didn't think of that" at her confession, than "whoops, I guess I led her on"

To think that he was completely aware of her interest in him, flirted back knowing of her interest, then backed out upon her confession seems...a little too mean spirited to me

This. Welonz (a youtuber who never played the OG and whose entry to the game is Remake+CCR) read all their interactions as bff hanging out together. Let’s say that she was deeply surprised by the dream date, as she hadn’t felt Aerith being serious about Cloud at all.

I also think Jessie serves as a comparison with Aerith: Cloud didn’t think she was ever serious, and he does the same with Aerith. Interestingly enough, he might have been more aware than herself about the seriousness of her feelings for Zack - something we’ll have to see for ourselves in p3.

Edit: missed a word + typo

 

[Ryeleigh]

I always find it odd how shippers create this platonic/romantic binary and act like any fictional relationship has to be completely one or the other and these are the only options.

Well thank you, I am one of these people.

And to add, oftentimes it's not even shippers who create these platonic/romantic binaries. It's the writers and the story. Even in something like harems with their messy assortment of feelings. Just because one character has romantic/sexual feelings for another character, it doesn't mean inherent or obliged reciprocity.

I also think Jessie serves as a comparison with Aerith: Cloud didn’t think she was ever serious, and he does the same with Aerith. Interestingly enough, he might have been more aware than herself about the seriousness of her feelings for Zack - something we’ll have to see for ourselves in p3.

I actually had this thought earlier if Cloud regrets how he treated Jessie. I mean, I found it funny but "are you really that desperate" is such a harsh thing to say to someone. There was absolutely no way that the devs would've had Cloud say something similar to Aerith, but I wonder if it made him -- what's the saying? -- more willing to go with the flow of Aerith's quirks?

But yeah, Jessie is a good example. She was outrageously flirting with him (how serious she was, everyone can decide for themselves) but Cloud never treated her as anything more than a friend.

 

[Edley]

But yeah, Jessie is a good example. She was outrageously flirting with him (how serious she was, everyone can decide for themselves) but Cloud never treated her as anything more than a friend.

I think Jessie's intentions towards Cloud are pretty well spelled out by Wedge. She's testing him. My more charitable inference is that Jessie is protective of Tifa and wanted to sus out if Cloud really was the type of guy Tifa portrayed him as. But she could have also just been messing with him for fun.


Then in Rebirth: Aerith and Cloud talk about Jessie

This is actually one of my favorite written interactions in all of Rebirth. Is Cloud just talking about Jessie here? You decide.

 

[Skilganon]

I actually really dislike Aerith and Yuffie's dialogue with Cloud about Jessie.

Like, Cloud is trying to mourn the loss of a friend they try to make it all about how he's clueless around women. It just rubs me the wrong way. Aerith even insinuates that Jessie liked Cloud, "Just a friend?" How would she know? She didn't even know Jessie. It's an incredibly odd thing to say when someone is trying to remember their friend fondly.

If I died and lingered on as a ghost, and someone I didn't even know started talking about my personal feelings, I would feel insulted. It's like the devs want you to remember Jessie as being thirsty over Cloud, as if that's her most important trait.

I like Cloud and Tifa's dialogue much more. They actually seem respectful.

On a side note: I made a Reddit post about this dialogue, asking if I was weird for thinking what Aerith and Yuffie say here is inappropriate. I was downvoted for that. So maybe I'm the weird one here. I just think it's inappropriate if someone you know starts talking about a dead friend and you start asking if they were together romantically. It's just not f*cking relevant. The person is dead

 

[null]

Nah, not weird at all. That scene would be awkward even if Jessie was alive. “Cloud, you can be pretty dumb, are you sure she wasn’t your girlfriend? Are you really sure?”

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't think it's weird but I do think "aren't Aerith/Yuffie awful here" isn't what they were going for here. It's entirely possible Aerith could sense things with her Cetra heritage. For Aerith I think maybe one of the intentions was is Jessie here right now, maybe she can sense her. She even says "Right"? as if she's talking to her. I've seen a few streamers wonder that. That's how she would know. Cloud himself even mentions the pizza when on his own. So I don't think they had ill intentions, either the devs or the characters.

Edit- I remember in CCGG it talked about Aerith was able to surmise everything from small deeds, I thought it was from her Cetra power but. That time it was about romance too, about Zack being a ladies man, and her knowing about the receptionist, and the Turk, etc.

Plus Aerith's first reaction on seeing Jessie was a compliment "Wow .. how incredibly beautiful" and then later "Just think, your friend used to perform on this very stage"

IDK the Gold Saucer is a surreal place, you see Jessie, Biggs, Wedge later, and Cloud hears Zack and sees Aerith when he sleeps then gets "transported" to Zack land.

I could just be thinking too hard and overthinking, maybe they just wanted to pay homage to the Cloud and Jessie's little "romance" and just decided a date was the best place to squeeze that in.

Edit 2: I hope I wasn't coming across as aggressive or too heavy handed to Tim or anything here, there's nothing wrong or weird about seeing things differently and I can totally get people preferring the Cloud and Tifa scene! =)

 

[Ryeleigh]

I actually really dislike Aerith and Yuffie's dialogue with Cloud about Jessie.

Like, Cloud is trying to mourn the loss of a friend they try to make it all about how he's clueless around women. It just rubs me the wrong way. Aerith even insinuates that Jessie liked Cloud, "Just a friend?" How would she know? She didn't even know Jessie. It's an incredibly odd thing to say when someone is trying to remember their friend fondly.

If I died and lingered on as a ghost, and someone I didn't even know started talking about my personal feelings, I would feel insulted. It's like the devs want you to remember Jessie as being thirsty over Cloud, as if that's her most important trait.

I like Cloud and Tifa's dialogue much more. They actually seem respectful.

On a side note: I made a Reddit post about this dialogue, asking if I was weird for thinking what Aerith and Yuffie say here is inappropriate. I was downvoted for that. So maybe I'm the weird one here. I just think it's inappropriate if someone you know starts talking about a dead friend and you start asking if they were together romantically. It's just not f*cking relevant. The person is dead

I also thought it was a bit weird that Aerith saw the Avalanche Trio after the concert(?). Because she spent all of, what, five minutes with Wedge on-screen? It's possible she might have known Biggs because of the Leaf Orphanage connection but the game doesn't hint that at all? Never mind that, as far as we know, she hadn't even met Jessie? So it was kind of a weird place to squeeze in a cameo.

I don't think it's weird but I do think "aren't Aerith/Yuffie awful here" isn't what they were going for here. It's entirely possible Aerith could sense things with her Cetra heritage. For Aerith I think maybe one of the intentions was is Jessie here right now, maybe she can sense her. She even says "Right"? as if she's talking to her. I've seen a few streamers wonder that. That's how she would know. Cloud himself even mentions the pizza when on his own. So I don't think they had ill intentions, either the devs or the characters.

I thought Aerith was indirectly talking about herself (too). I also felt that the devs used that as an opportunity to point-blank say that Cloud is kind of oblivious when it comes to other characters' romantic feelings for him. So while I think it could've been written a bit better, I don't think it's that serious or that we were supposed to find Aerith awful.

 

[Eerie]

It's possible she might have known Biggs because of the Leaf Orphanage connection but the game doesn't hint that at all?

She realised in ToTP that she knew him, yes.

 

[null]

I like Maidenofwar’s interpretation. (But also hope The Jessie Fan doesn’t see it)

 

[pxl_pushr]

I don't think it's weird but I do think "aren't Aerith/Yuffie awful here" isn't what they were going for here. It's entirely possible Aerith could sense things with her Cetra heritage. For Aerith I think maybe one of the intentions was is Jessie here right now, maybe she can sense her. She even says "Right"? as if she's talking to her. I've seen a few streamers wonder that. That's how she would know. Cloud himself even mentions the pizza when on his own. So I don't think they had ill intentions, either the devs or the characters.

Edit- I remember in CCGG it talked about Aerith was able to surmise everything from small deeds, I thought it was from her Cetra power but. That time it was about romance too, about Zack being a ladies man, and her knowing about the receptionist, and the Turk, etc.

Plus Aerith's first reaction on seeing Jessie was a compliment "Wow .. how incredibly beautiful" and then later "Just think, your friend used to perform on this very stage"

IDK the Gold Saucer is a surreal place, you see Jessie, Biggs, Wedge later, and Cloud hears Zack and sees Aerith when he sleeps then gets "transported" to Zack land.

I could just be thinking too hard and overthinking, maybe they just wanted to pay homage to the Cloud and Jessie's little "romance" and just decided a date was the best place to squeeze that in.

Edit 2: I hope I wasn't coming across as aggressive or too heavy handed to Tim or anything here, there's nothing wrong or weird about seeing things differently and I can totally get people preferring the Cloud and Tifa scene! =)

This is the first interpretation I’ve seen that answers my core issue with that scene, so thanks for sharing!

Also lines up with my suspicions that physical places facilitate dream worlds. For example, the shot of Jessie performing in Loveless is her dream world where she gets to live out her life as a performer, maybe with her dad in the crowd to see her.

Like each location has a white void like where you fight Sephiroth at the end of Remake, and that houses the dream worlds of people like Zack and Aerith.

To loop it around to Cloud, I’m becoming more and more convinced that puppet Cloud is one or two steps away from being considered an entirely different person from Real Cloud.

 

[Sacky]

I actually really dislike Aerith and Yuffie's dialogue with Cloud about Jessie.

Like, Cloud is trying to mourn the loss of a friend they try to make it all about how he's clueless around women. It just rubs me the wrong way. Aerith even insinuates that Jessie liked Cloud, "Just a friend?" How would she know? She didn't even know Jessie. It's an incredibly odd thing to say when someone is trying to remember their friend fondly.

If I died and lingered on as a ghost, and someone I didn't even know started talking about my personal feelings, I would feel insulted. It's like the devs want you to remember Jessie as being thirsty over Cloud, as if that's her most important trait.

I like Cloud and Tifa's dialogue much more. They actually seem respectful.

On a side note: I made a Reddit post about this dialogue, asking if I was weird for thinking what Aerith and Yuffie say here is inappropriate. I was downvoted for that. So maybe I'm the weird one here. I just think it's inappropriate if someone you know starts talking about a dead friend and you start asking if they were together romantically. It's just not f*cking relevant. The person is dead

Your not the weird one here. I remember your post btw and let's just say the people down voting had a specific agenda and saying anything negative or something that can be considered a flaw would cause them to downvote.

 

[Ryeleigh]

She realised in ToTP that she knew him, yes.

Aww, I wish they would put or even hint at stuff like this in the game too.

 

[Edley]

I don't think it's weird but I do think "aren't Aerith/Yuffie awful here" isn't what they were going for here. It's entirely possible Aerith could sense things with her Cetra heritage. For Aerith I think maybe one of the intentions was is Jessie here right now, maybe she can sense her. She even says "Right"? as if she's talking to her. I've seen a few streamers wonder that. That's how she would know. Cloud himself even mentions the pizza when on his own. So I don't think they had ill intentions, either the devs or the characters.

Context is important here. I think this article is pretty accurate in its synopsis of the scene:

Some players appear to be taking umbrage with her attitude, particularly how she talks to Cloud and appears to disregard his feelings in a variety of different situations. During one scene in the Gold Saucer, as the pair stare at a poster of Jessie in Event Square, Cloud is quick to remind Aerith how good a friend she was, and how much he misses her.

Aerith is forever a tease, and to lighten the mood, she asks Cloud if she was something more than friends, perhaps a girlfriend Cloud was keeping close to his chest. We shrug her off and laugh about how Jessie always gave as good as she got, and how Cloud is endearingly dense when it comes to girls flirting with him. All of this is true, and nothing in this scene feels out of character for Aerith compared to all of Remake and the rest of Rebirth.

Aerith never met Jessie, and stepped foot in Sector 7 for the first time as the plate began to fall, and the deceased AVALANCHE member was about to draw her last breath. She tackles this unexpected emergence of grief in the Gold Saucer through humour, and we’ve seen her cope with tragedy this way time and time again.

Even when she’s taken into the clutches of Shinra or recalls the fate of her late mother and boyfriend, she does so with a smile. There still remains hope to save this planet and build memories upon it, so from Aerith’s view, an Ancient who can quite literally hear the planet’s cry and communicate with Gaia’s lifestream, decides to find happiness even in the darkest of places. If that means poking fun at Cloud in what many view as an awkward scene, then so be it.

In Defense Of Aerith Gainsborough In Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth

 

[Heartstation]

Aww, I wish they would put or even hint at stuff like this in the game too.

I’m holding out hope that there could be a beyond-Lifestream Biggs interaction with Aerith at some point! It seems unfair to incorporate these additions in such recent relevant content and then let them fall by the wayside

 

[Skilganon]

I have another question that may pertain to the LTD:

When some people describe post-OG Cloud as pining for Aerith, or waiting to die so he can be with her in the Promised Land, many people including myself rightly dismiss these notions as, not only being horrible thematically, but also regressive readings of both Cloud and Aerith as characters.

Do you think there is some similarity when people say that Aerith shouldn't hit on Cloud because "She has Zack"? Yet Zack is dead (I believe he is dead in the Remake timeline for reason I've outlined elsewhere). It does seem to imply that Aerith has to die in order to reunite with him. I see Aerith as too strong of a character to be hung up and unable to move on. In this case, it seems Aerith dying is just a convenient way to match the two characters. Is there something more insidious behind the ZA ship considering that Aerith has to die to reunite with him?

 

[Ryeleigh]

Do you think there is some similarity when people say that Aerith shouldn't hit on Cloud because "She has Zack"?

Arguably she shouldn't hit on Cloud because Cloud is not interested and he and Tifa have a very obvious thing going on.

I see Aerith as too strong of a character to be hung up and unable to move on.

And yet that's part of her character arc. She never got closure and she struggles to move on, but that doesn't mean that she was pining away for Zack. She still lived her life to the fullest, made friends, travelled the planet. So evidently, it's not the devs or ZA fans who reduce her character to "Zack's girlfriend", lol. (Not saying that's what you're saying or implying but those arguments usually go hand in hand.)

In this case, it seems Aerith dying is just a convenient way to match the two characters. Is there something more insidious behind the ZA ship considering that Aerith has to die to reunite with him?

There's nothing "insidious" about ZA, lmao. Aerith "has to die" because that's her role in the story. Reuniting with Zack -- you know, the boy she loved and whom she longed to see for 5 years and most of the game(s) -- is basically her reward. For example, Titanic and I guess Supernatural (though, that one's platonic).

If people want to "match" Aerith and Zack, they can just as well write them both alive or dead, childhood friends or enemies to lovers, or anything in between. Only imagination is the limit because that's the neat thing about fictional characters and, well, fan fiction in this case.

 

[Heartstation]

When some people describe post-OG Cloud as pining for Aerith, or waiting to die so he can be with her in the Promised Land, many people including myself rightly dismiss these notions as, not only being horrible thematically, but also regressive readings of both Cloud and Aerith as characters.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that they are regressive readings and woefully incorrect by any respectable accounts.

There is no sign anywhere in ACC or official supplemental notation that supports the idea Cloud wanted to die to reach Aerith, only that he had been working to find a cure for Denzel when he too fell terminally ill, felt defeated & guilty, & left home to avoid becoming a burden to his family. He goes to the church as a place of familiar sanctuary, but it is specified that his family is actually his personal peace & happiness—Cloud leaving his family is indicative of him falling into his old pattern of isolating himself from what he truly wants.

So while the church remains a symbol of Aerith, it is not proof that he came here for positive reasons or to willingly die to be with her, romantically or otherwise. He’s in a horrible place mentally & physically, and seeks forgiveness.

To think that a protagonist who so triumphantly recognizes at the end of OG that the natural cycle of the planet will indeed one day reunite him, and Tifa (and the entire party) with Aerith and their lost loved ones when the time comes, & now with the context of Retrilogy assumedly understands Aerith’s lesson that every moment matters, could then eagerly detach himself from the happiness of his life, the woman he loves, and the children they raise at the first chance to be romantically united with Aerith in death, is so disconnected from the reality of what this story is trying to tell us that I would seriously question anyone who considered it.

Do you think there is some similarity when people say that Aerith shouldn't hit on Cloud because "She has Zack"? Yet Zack is dead (I believe he is dead in the Remake timeline for reason I've outlined elsewhere). It does seem to imply that Aerith has to die in order to reunite with him. I see Aerith as too strong of a character to be hung up and unable to move on. In this case, it seems Aerith dying is just a convenient way to match the two characters. Is there something more insidious behind the ZA ship considering that Aerith has to die to reunite with him?

All that is to say, I do think anyone who thinks Aerith shouldn’t hit on Cloud because she needs to be with Zack is also incorrect—she doesn’t need to be with or belong to anybody, and Zack has been gone from her life for years.

I think the act of her attempting to move on is somewhat demonstrated in her pursuit of Cloud’s affections, and is proof that she is definitively not wasting away on the hope that Zack will return. Moving forward is still very clearly difficult for her because Zack is someone she loves, but she undoubtedly takes steps ahead for herself bc she values her own progress too.

As a personal aside, I believe Aerith is within her right to pursue Cloud regardless of it actually helping her move on or not. I am a proponent of letting characters do messy things or have complicated feelings if it effectively make sense within the context of the work. Cloud & Tifa are not exclusive or even together yet, & neither truly understand how deep and tender those secret memories that orbit Tifa go for him, currently. At least for me, it is still not entirely clear how much Aerith really knows about the extent Tifa’s feelings for Cloud go. I personally do not think Tifa has divulged that to anyone, has only explained them away as an old crush as a child, and despite any visible hints toward their romantic connection, I think Aerith might have a bit of tunnel vision & so isn’t catching on to the current signs.
But maybe I am trying to see that situation in the best most streamlined light, it’s just my personal interpretation.

In regard to the idea of ZA together in the afterlife, I don’t think a normal approach of this implies anything insidious in a ZA reading because it’s simply a logical & optimistic way to perceive Aerith and Zack finding their joint happiness in eternity. I find the concept of ZA to be the silver lining to their tragic storylines, the idea that they are rewarded in death with love and companionship after the trials they faced in life (& by the Powers That Be who wrote those doomed roles for them in the first place). Aerith’s 23 wishes to spend more time with Zack multiplied and granted to infinity.

But then, I also believe their feelings for each other are actually the same type of longing that is often projected onto CA, with Zack fighting to reach Aerith across the Lifestream “multiverse” while Aerith struggles to move forward yet still ending up attracted to someone who reminds her of Zack. I understand not all people will or do see their connection this way, and that’s fair.
However I refuse to look at the idea of their romance beyond the grave in bad faith. I will always prefer to see that, despite their doomed narratives, the “afterlife” does not further torment them through separation.

It’s not a “pair the spares” situation either because these are characters who again have a longterm romantic history and pined for each other after they were separated for years. I also find it extremely difficult to see their union in a negative way given the alternative is an Aerith dutifully traveling the planet in eternal solitude.

Is there something more insidious behind the ZA ship considering that Aerith has to die to reunite with him?

I am sure there are plenty of CT shippers who find it easier to praise ZA bc it removes Aerith from being any kind of complication in their minds, but I’d argue there are disingenuous people like this in all ships and fandoms.

I don’t believe Cloud would die to be with Aerith, and I don’t believe Aerith would die to be with Zack. The canon tells us this is incongruent with their characters.
I think Aerith lives her life cheerfully and exuberantly despite how short it was and the pain she experienced during it, and dies while selflessly praying to the planet for her friends’ safety—and is subsequently reunited with Zack because the writers decided for that to be a sweeter and more hopeful way to end their story & depict their appearance for AC.
I think Retrilogy is now going to visually show us how that happened.

 

[null]

They’re not comparable imo. I’ve never seen ZA fans interpret Cloud to be a clingy, delusional villain trying to keep soulmates of destiny apart. They need to collectively spend a few more decades assassinating Cloud’s character, having interviews in WacDonalds and writing essays explaining all the mystical Japanese symbolism before their theories can reach that insidious level.

 

[frosty]

Is there something more insidious behind the ZA ship considering that Aerith has to die to reunite with him?

Aerith dies because of plot / planet. Devs who've been hit with all the "please bring her back to have a happy ending with Cloud please please please" aren't caving to the core themes of the story - that loss is permanent - are looking for a happy medium for her to have a satisfactory closure to her romantic arc despite death

No one is actively hoping Aerith dies JUST SO she can be with Zack. She...is already dead. People are hoping that in death, she gets her closure in the afterlife, because they feel sorry for her story - she was essentially left clueless by the first guy she loved (not his fault, he DIED) and she never got to progress to an actual relationship with the second guy she showed interest in.

If anything, some of the Cloud / Aerith shippers who constantly romanticise suicide of an already depressed man so he can leave behind his pitiful side chick and an ill child gives me more ick than people hoping Aerith can reunite with Zack. Because they actively WANT Cloud to off himself

 

[Eerie]

Hamaguchi saying that Aerith is sisterly to Cloud kinda mirrors when Yamazki said the same thing. Yeah he just said that.

I should add that this was not on my bingo card.

 

[Xannis]

In this case, it seems Aerith dying is just a convenient way to match the two characters. Is there something more insidious behind the ZA ship considering that Aerith has to die to reunite with him?

I might not 100% be getting what you're driving at but I think all the ZA stuff in Re-Trilogy is the Dev's simply doing what they've said which is this will all line up with AC and they're simply "showing" that.

It's not unreasonable to think people would watch AC, see ZA together in the afterlife and go "Huh I wonder how that happened" (or wish they could have seen what led to that) because Zack was such a bit part in OG. Anyway, I really think all this is just them telling the backstory of the end point we see in AC where they (ZA) are shown to be together.

Hamaguchi saying that Aerith is sisterly to Cloud kinda mirrors when Yamazki said the same thing. Yeah he just said that.

I should add that this was not on my bingo card.

Funny to read that. After my first run of Remake I had posted on Reddit in a discussion that the Clerith relationship/scenes came off to me as Cloud treating Aerith like an annoying (but obviously loved) older sister that's always sticking her nose where it might not belong. I wouldn't have bothered even posting it but it seemed almost on purpose compared to how I view their interactions from OG.

Got down-voted to oblivion of course but I still get that general feel whenever I watch them in Re-Trilogy.

 

[null]

She really does have that onee-chan vibe. Sad that she was an only child. She’d make a great older sister.

 

[lyingbanana]

No surprise about the downvotes.

I remember when I first dipped my toes in the fandom after AC back in 2005, the number one thing I learned was that there was no answer to who Cloud ends up with or that he was pining after Aerith. Those two were the loudest options I encountered. Which I found weird bc if those were the options then Tifa didnt look good in either scenario, which wasnt what I gathered from the film, but I accepted it bc the fandom is more knowledgeable than newcomer me, right?
Didnt really get sucked in the fandom, so no ultimanias and no extra info for me.

It wasnt until much later after playing FF7 that I reaffirmed that no, the story does point to Cloud and Tifa.

So I understand when new people discover this world and are still told its up to interpretation as the "diplomatic" solution.

And im not saying thinking "clerith is the answer" is wrong or anything because the game purposely trap you in the illusory love triangle with choices and ambiguousness (and honestly great storytelling weaving in a love triangle that makes sense for the story.) But for many the LS reveal instead of making them go "ahhh thats why Tifa's role exists in the love triangle and story" they doubled down on the notion that if there is no answer or its up to interpretation, then it becomes a situation where I must try to fit this scene into my clerith preference, hence the Tifa is a bully and all those lies.

I know this isnt the experience for everyone but I have seen it a multitude of times and it happened to me.

Next time I interacted with the fandom was 2022 after Remake, made a Twitter account lasted a year and deleted that . And now here is where I've found the more grounded takes.

Anyways all these rambling to say heh 20 years later and the fandom hasnt changed that much huh.

 

[Skilganon]

It's not unreasonable to think people would watch AC, see ZA together in the afterlife and go "Huh I wonder how that happened" (or wish they could have seen what led to that) because Zack was such a bit part in OG. Anyway, I really think all this is just them telling the backstory of the end point we see in AC where they (ZA) are shown to be together.

I completely agree that the multiple worlds are a way to explain how Aerith meets Zack in the afterlife and how she stops meteor (Also, I'm hoping she has a hand in the weapons somehow, like she's able to control them or something.)

It's odd that Cloud's mom said he should get a girlfriend who acts like an older sister. I don't believe any mother in my country(US) would say that to their son, but perhaps it's different in Japan. I don't think Claudia was trying to put thoughts of incest into her son's head, I also don't think Hamaguchi describing Aerith as sisterly disqualifies any romantic relationship (As it would in an American context.)

I made a post a while back about how a neutral reading of Claudia's talk doesn't suggest either girl. If she was talking about Tifa, she would have said Tifa. She can't be talking about Aerith, because she doesn't know her. Aerith is one of those "temptations from the big city" that she was warning Cloud about. Neither of them fit the bill.

Many shippers seem to be hanging on Hamaguchi's every word, some even start whole reddit threads because he liked one of their dms on instagram or something. It's getting really weird and desperate.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Hamaguchi saying that Aerith is sisterly to Cloud kinda mirrors when Yamazki said the same thing. Yeah he just said that.

I should add that this was not on my bingo card.

Hmm. So I have read it and the comments as well

And I have a lot of thoughts.

I Am Not Surprised
So first I'm not shocked at all because in most Ultimania that is exactly how Aerith is described. As a nee-san type character that takes the lead. Strong-willed , direct, speaks her mind. Assertive type. And that's part of her inner strength. Also in the JP version of Costa Del Sol date she is again described that way by the fangirls trying to ship her and Cloud. It's a way to describe her personality.
-------------------------------------------------------------

The Claudia scene reference I think is definitely there

As for the Claudia reference yeah leading you around without hesitation is what Claudia says.

And that line in Costa Del Sol from the fangirls is a direct reference to what Claudia says again "I bet you're the older sister type who leads without hesitation" and that's in line with the Ultimania which asks "Is Claudia referring to a girl like Aerith?" Is a huge giveaway they're connected there. UltimaniaOmega Pg 77, 10th Anniversary pg 50)
This has always been the case. It's why Aerith's theme plays in that scene in OG and EC. Because of this connection.
So it's like Hamaguchi's just saying what's always been said. Aerith is the older sister type who leads without hesitation is just her description. Considering his words are basically everything I had seen in those Ultimania, that's immediately where my thoughts went.
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But I don't think it's supposed to be just Aerith either


Though I'll also point out Tifa is also referred as mature in Mobius and TOTP which has always been my thoughts that this scene is actually supposed to set up the BOTH of them because remember there is a mystery there and you have an affection system in OG and I think it's supposed to make you wonder what girl she's referring to as part of the narrative. So it actually fits the both of them.

So I think this is a remnant of the LTD not an ending to it. It's more or the same amount of ambiguity not less. And while everyone is seeing this as ending the LTD I honestly see them as just saying what's always been said nothing new or groundbreaking and actually kinda baiting it with the Cloud's so lucky to have two girls feeling deeply about him comment.
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I Don't See The Sibling Thing Here.

I don't see him as saying they're like siblings just repeating stuff that has already been said. As I said this isn't different from Ultimanias and other references to Aerith.

I'm not sure that's what people want to hear but if you look at the JP comments from CTs several are about how Claudia's wishes don't match Cloud's and JP CA's are rejoicing about the Claudia scene. Which if it had nothing to do with that scene like EN speakers are saying they wouldn't be both mentioning Claudia. This has less weight but I used to walk variety shows of my favorite Jpop idols and the amount of times I've seen them refer to their ideal girl as a beautiful nee-san is way more than not. I'm just used to hearing it that way so my first thought wasn't actually siblings at all. And I still don't see it.

This all leads me to the conclusion that Hamaguchi himself is just referring to Aerith's character and personality as every other source has done. Not saying he sees her as a sibling as those sources didn't say that either. And we can't rule out how similar what he said is to those sources either. I think he'd use different wording if that is what he meant and Kitase wouldn't reply with how lucky Cloud is if he really was talking about sisterly love there.

Also both Tifa and Aerith have been described as motherly and Zack and Cloud both call her mom I wouldn't jump to oh they meant actually sisterly here for all these reasons.

Everything else though, is nothing new.
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I Don't Think This Statement Ends The LTD

However I have to say it seems very much like setting up ambiguity. Because it ALSO reminds me also how in Naruto there's a scene where Naruto is told by his mother Kushina that he better marry a person like her with many parallels to one girl and he ends up marrying someone else who is the one you're supposed to think it's the opposite. And it's pretty blatant bc the author literally says he wanted to mislead people so yeah. I'm not thinking Hamaguchi is trying to bait but that particular wording was very specific and by default will garner LTD attention anyway bc of the Claudia reference or people discussing what he meant by sisterly. Either way which in my view will continue it even further.
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So In Conclusion....I don't see it as groundbreaking.

So as a CA I can say it's a nice Aerith reference and sweet. On the surface I can see why CAs would be excited but I have seen this kind of bait and switch before already. Where the narrative has a parent character mention a specific trait which makes people think of a specific character and they don't actually end up with them because it's supposed to have you wondering.
This is why I think you see JP comments talking about oh but C doesn't need to follow what his mom thinks his best.

Because that's also a thing.
I have actually seen this happen a few times in my time with JP media so that's also a thing. Aerith herself replies..."That...I wonder" as if she isn't sure when the shipper girls in Costa Del Sol refer to her as the type to lead without hesitation. Which matches exactly what I was saying earlier that it's setting up a "Which is it?" type question of ambiguity there. So I wouldn't jump for conclusions that it's the end all be all either.
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I think Hamaguchi is just an Aerith fan and that's why he said it that way

Anyway I just think Hamaguchi is not a shipper here but an Aerith fan definitely and as an Aerith fan myself and not just CA I knew exactly what he was referring to.

Those are my thoughts on everything I see there. As you can see my thoughts differ vastly from probably literally everyone I've seen talk about this. As usual but yeah.