SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

Hamaguchi saying that Aerith is sisterly to Cloud kinda mirrors when Yamazki said the same thing. Yeah he just said that.

I should add that this was not on my bingo card.

 

[Xannis]

In this case, it seems Aerith dying is just a convenient way to match the two characters. Is there something more insidious behind the ZA ship considering that Aerith has to die to reunite with him?

I might not 100% be getting what you're driving at but I think all the ZA stuff in Re-Trilogy is the Dev's simply doing what they've said which is this will all line up with AC and they're simply "showing" that.

It's not unreasonable to think people would watch AC, see ZA together in the afterlife and go "Huh I wonder how that happened" (or wish they could have seen what led to that) because Zack was such a bit part in OG. Anyway, I really think all this is just them telling the backstory of the end point we see in AC where they (ZA) are shown to be together.

Hamaguchi saying that Aerith is sisterly to Cloud kinda mirrors when Yamazki said the same thing. Yeah he just said that.

I should add that this was not on my bingo card.

Funny to read that. After my first run of Remake I had posted on Reddit in a discussion that the Clerith relationship/scenes came off to me as Cloud treating Aerith like an annoying (but obviously loved) older sister that's always sticking her nose where it might not belong. I wouldn't have bothered even posting it but it seemed almost on purpose compared to how I view their interactions from OG.

Got down-voted to oblivion of course but I still get that general feel whenever I watch them in Re-Trilogy.

 

[null]

She really does have that onee-chan vibe. Sad that she was an only child. She’d make a great older sister.

 

[lyingbanana]

No surprise about the downvotes.

I remember when I first dipped my toes in the fandom after AC back in 2005, the number one thing I learned was that there was no answer to who Cloud ends up with or that he was pining after Aerith. Those two were the loudest options I encountered. Which I found weird bc if those were the options then Tifa didnt look good in either scenario, which wasnt what I gathered from the film, but I accepted it bc the fandom is more knowledgeable than newcomer me, right?
Didnt really get sucked in the fandom, so no ultimanias and no extra info for me.

It wasnt until much later after playing FF7 that I reaffirmed that no, the story does point to Cloud and Tifa.

So I understand when new people discover this world and are still told its up to interpretation as the "diplomatic" solution.

And im not saying thinking "clerith is the answer" is wrong or anything because the game purposely trap you in the illusory love triangle with choices and ambiguousness (and honestly great storytelling weaving in a love triangle that makes sense for the story.) But for many the LS reveal instead of making them go "ahhh thats why Tifa's role exists in the love triangle and story" they doubled down on the notion that if there is no answer or its up to interpretation, then it becomes a situation where I must try to fit this scene into my clerith preference, hence the Tifa is a bully and all those lies.

I know this isnt the experience for everyone but I have seen it a multitude of times and it happened to me.

Next time I interacted with the fandom was 2022 after Remake, made a Twitter account lasted a year and deleted that . And now here is where I've found the more grounded takes.

Anyways all these rambling to say heh 20 years later and the fandom hasnt changed that much huh.

 

[Skilganon]

It's not unreasonable to think people would watch AC, see ZA together in the afterlife and go "Huh I wonder how that happened" (or wish they could have seen what led to that) because Zack was such a bit part in OG. Anyway, I really think all this is just them telling the backstory of the end point we see in AC where they (ZA) are shown to be together.

I completely agree that the multiple worlds are a way to explain how Aerith meets Zack in the afterlife and how she stops meteor (Also, I'm hoping she has a hand in the weapons somehow, like she's able to control them or something.)

It's odd that Cloud's mom said he should get a girlfriend who acts like an older sister. I don't believe any mother in my country(US) would say that to their son, but perhaps it's different in Japan. I don't think Claudia was trying to put thoughts of incest into her son's head, I also don't think Hamaguchi describing Aerith as sisterly disqualifies any romantic relationship (As it would in an American context.)

I made a post a while back about how a neutral reading of Claudia's talk doesn't suggest either girl. If she was talking about Tifa, she would have said Tifa. She can't be talking about Aerith, because she doesn't know her. Aerith is one of those "temptations from the big city" that she was warning Cloud about. Neither of them fit the bill.

Many shippers seem to be hanging on Hamaguchi's every word, some even start whole reddit threads because he liked one of their dms on instagram or something. It's getting really weird and desperate.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Hamaguchi saying that Aerith is sisterly to Cloud kinda mirrors when Yamazki said the same thing. Yeah he just said that.

I should add that this was not on my bingo card.

Hmm. So I have read it and the comments as well

And I have a lot of thoughts.

I Am Not Surprised
So first I'm not shocked at all because in most Ultimania that is exactly how Aerith is described. As a nee-san type character that takes the lead. Strong-willed , direct, speaks her mind. Assertive type. And that's part of her inner strength. Also in the JP version of Costa Del Sol date she is again described that way by the fangirls trying to ship her and Cloud. It's a way to describe her personality.
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The Claudia scene reference I think is definitely there

As for the Claudia reference yeah leading you around without hesitation is what Claudia says.

And that line in Costa Del Sol from the fangirls is a direct reference to what Claudia says again "I bet you're the older sister type who leads without hesitation" and that's in line with the Ultimania which asks "Is Claudia referring to a girl like Aerith?" Is a huge giveaway they're connected there. UltimaniaOmega Pg 77, 10th Anniversary pg 50)
This has always been the case. It's why Aerith's theme plays in that scene in OG and EC. Because of this connection.
So it's like Hamaguchi's just saying what's always been said. Aerith is the older sister type who leads without hesitation is just her description. Considering his words are basically everything I had seen in those Ultimania, that's immediately where my thoughts went.
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But I don't think it's supposed to be just Aerith either


Though I'll also point out Tifa is also referred as mature in Mobius and TOTP which has always been my thoughts that this scene is actually supposed to set up the BOTH of them because remember there is a mystery there and you have an affection system in OG and I think it's supposed to make you wonder what girl she's referring to as part of the narrative. So it actually fits the both of them.

So I think this is a remnant of the LTD not an ending to it. It's more or the same amount of ambiguity not less. And while everyone is seeing this as ending the LTD I honestly see them as just saying what's always been said nothing new or groundbreaking and actually kinda baiting it with the Cloud's so lucky to have two girls feeling deeply about him comment.
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I Don't See The Sibling Thing Here.

I don't see him as saying they're like siblings just repeating stuff that has already been said. As I said this isn't different from Ultimanias and other references to Aerith.

I'm not sure that's what people want to hear but if you look at the JP comments from CTs several are about how Claudia's wishes don't match Cloud's and JP CA's are rejoicing about the Claudia scene. Which if it had nothing to do with that scene like EN speakers are saying they wouldn't be both mentioning Claudia. This has less weight but I used to walk variety shows of my favorite Jpop idols and the amount of times I've seen them refer to their ideal girl as a beautiful nee-san is way more than not. I'm just used to hearing it that way so my first thought wasn't actually siblings at all. And I still don't see it.

This all leads me to the conclusion that Hamaguchi himself is just referring to Aerith's character and personality as every other source has done. Not saying he sees her as a sibling as those sources didn't say that either. And we can't rule out how similar what he said is to those sources either. I think he'd use different wording if that is what he meant and Kitase wouldn't reply with how lucky Cloud is if he really was talking about sisterly love there.

Also both Tifa and Aerith have been described as motherly and Zack and Cloud both call her mom I wouldn't jump to oh they meant actually sisterly here for all these reasons.

Everything else though, is nothing new.
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I Don't Think This Statement Ends The LTD

However I have to say it seems very much like setting up ambiguity. Because it ALSO reminds me also how in Naruto there's a scene where Naruto is told by his mother Kushina that he better marry a person like her with many parallels to one girl and he ends up marrying someone else who is the one you're supposed to think it's the opposite. And it's pretty blatant bc the author literally says he wanted to mislead people so yeah. I'm not thinking Hamaguchi is trying to bait but that particular wording was very specific and by default will garner LTD attention anyway bc of the Claudia reference or people discussing what he meant by sisterly. Either way which in my view will continue it even further.
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So In Conclusion....I don't see it as groundbreaking.

So as a CA I can say it's a nice Aerith reference and sweet. On the surface I can see why CAs would be excited but I have seen this kind of bait and switch before already. Where the narrative has a parent character mention a specific trait which makes people think of a specific character and they don't actually end up with them because it's supposed to have you wondering.
This is why I think you see JP comments talking about oh but C doesn't need to follow what his mom thinks his best.

Because that's also a thing.
I have actually seen this happen a few times in my time with JP media so that's also a thing. Aerith herself replies..."That...I wonder" as if she isn't sure when the shipper girls in Costa Del Sol refer to her as the type to lead without hesitation. Which matches exactly what I was saying earlier that it's setting up a "Which is it?" type question of ambiguity there. So I wouldn't jump for conclusions that it's the end all be all either.
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I think Hamaguchi is just an Aerith fan and that's why he said it that way

Anyway I just think Hamaguchi is not a shipper here but an Aerith fan definitely and as an Aerith fan myself and not just CA I knew exactly what he was referring to.

Those are my thoughts on everything I see there. As you can see my thoughts differ vastly from probably literally everyone I've seen talk about this. As usual but yeah.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Nobody here would say it means Aerith is literally his sister and you're a delusional piece of crap if you ship it so thank you for that.

**
For me it's more interesting it was a segment from this wider article which talks about Loveless, and that it's intentional the play ties in with the theme song of the game, and the underlying tragic implications of the game. I think it makes sense to have Aerith Rosa there and the tragedy of separation.

'Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth' Director Weighs in on Cloud’s Love Triangle

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's director and producer break down some of the game's key moments, and what the future of the franchise might be.

www.inverse.com

 

[eleamaya]

I Am Not Surprised
So first I'm not shocked at all because in most Ultimania that is exactly how Aerith is described. As a nee-san type character that takes the lead. Strong-willed, direct, speaks her mind. Assertive type. And that's part of her inner strength. Also in the JP version of Costa Del Sol date she is again described that way by the fangirls trying to ship her and Cloud. It's a way to describe her personality.

You know what? It's funny how Aerith is always like this even with Zack but some shippers are blind to see it, hence, "I hate CC!Aerith because she's different." The difference is Cloud reacting in annoyance and sighing while Zack loves to let her do what she wants; so this makes Aerith does harder with Cloud than she did with Zack. Aerith is never shy even with Zack for speaking her mind, it makes him attracted to her while in Cloud's case, it makes him slowly open up to her. Aerith is also never passive with Zack, it's her who asked him "How about we're going to the park?" and excited when Zack called it a date. I just think CCFF7 Reunion doesn't improve the original animation of PSP so she's looked that a bit shy and passive. But look at Ever Crisis chapter, Aerith's playfulness animation when she's with Zack in CC chapter is not different from her animation in OG chapter.

I made a post a while back about how a neutral reading of Claudia's talk doesn't suggest either girl. If she was talking about Tifa, she would have said Tifa. She can't be talking about Aerith, because she doesn't know her. Aerith is one of those "temptations from the big city" that she was warning Cloud about. Neither of them fit the bill.

As for the Claudia reference yeah leading you around without hesitation is what Claudia says.

And that line in Costa Del Sol from the fangirls is a direct reference to what Claudia says again "I bet you're the older sister type who leads without hesitation" and that's in line with the Ultimania which asks "Is Claudia referring to a girl like Aerith?" Is a huge giveaway they're connected there. UltimaniaOmega Pg 77, 10th Anniversary pg 50)

I've always thought Claudia refer to a city girl like Aerith. It's like Cloud remembering what his mom said because he had just met the girl that matched her description. But I always think that Cloud is honest when he said "not interest" to his mom, it's never his type. Mother in Asia is always excited and curious about what guy/girl you date, but it doesnt meant you must agree with your mom's type. But I get the game want to make you think Aerith is one of the love interest because Cloud's mom said that, hence as what Ultimania said.

But since TOTP exist and portray Claudia & Tifa's relationship, I think both Tifa & Aerith are just taking the lead just as Nomura said, "Tifa is passionate, Aerith is forthcoming, and Cloud's current skills aren't a match for either of them." Not only that, according to Barret & Cid's joke in OTWTAS, Tifa is the woman who wear the pants in the relationship. So yeah, I think Claudia know what best to Cloud, whoever she is, it's the one who leads.

I think in every Cloud's ship even fanon and crack, Cloud is always the bottom/submissive one lol.

I think Hamaguchi is just an Aerith fan and that's why he said it that way

Anyway I just think Hamaguchi is not a shipper here but an Aerith fan definitely

He is, I just hate when the fandom reduced the statement about the girl as the ship. It's not from Clerith only, sometimes Cloti see something about Aerith's statement as Clerith too.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

You know what? It's funny how Aerith is always like this even with Zack but some shippers are blind to see it, hence, "I hate CC!Aerith because she's different." The difference is Cloud reacting in annoyance and sighing while Zack loves to let her do what she wants; so this makes Aerith does harder with Cloud than she did with Zack. Aerith is never shy even with Zack for speaking her mind, it makes him attracted to her while in Cloud's case, it makes him slowly open up to her. Aerith is also never passive with Zack, it's her who asked him "How about we're going to the park?" and excited when Zack called it a date. I just think CCFF7 Reunion doesn't improve the original animation of PSP so she's looked that a bit shy and passive. But look at Ever Crisis chapter, Aerith's playfulness animation when she's with Zack in CC chapter is not different from her animation in OG chapter.




I've always thought Claudia refer to a city girl like Aerith. It's like Cloud remembering what his mom said because he had just met the girl that matched her description. But I always think that Cloud is honest when he said "not interest" to his mom, it's never his type. Mother in Asia is always excited and curious about what guy/girl you date, but it doesnt meant you must agree with your mom's type. But I get the game want to make you think Aerith is one of the love interest because Cloud's mom said that, hence as what Ultimania said.

But since TOTP exist and portray Claudia & Tifa's relationship, I think both Tifa & Aerith are just taking the lead just as Nomura said, "Tifa is passionate, Aerith is forthcoming, and Cloud's current skills aren't a match for either of them." Not only that, according to Barret & Cid's joke in OTWTAS, Tifa is the woman who wear the pants in the relationship. So yeah, I think Claudia know what best to Cloud, whoever she is, it's the one who leads.

I think in every Cloud's ship even fanon and crack, Cloud is always the bottom/submissive one lol.


He is, I just hate when the fandom reduced the statement about the girl as the ship. It's not from Clerith only, sometimes Cloti see something about Aerith's statement as Clerith too.

Yeah I see it personally as this is how the devs address Aerith herself. And that's it. In any situation too.

With Cloud, With Zack even with Tifa she leads her. Even CC Aerith is leading Zack around in a sense in her flower wagon scene.

I was wondering what the comments were on about because like that's always been how it's been.

It's nothing new. I was more interested in the rest of the article too. But I was addressing how so many people especially in the comments can't believe he said that. I can totally 100% believe it because they've been saying it since 97.

But I don't think this is also a definitive CA WINS!!!! either for the fact this is just Aerith's personality he is talking about. Even with the Claudia reference I think the same. And you explained here exactly my thoughts. Cloud responds Not Interested. As well. Which makes me definitely think it's an intentional way of setting up things so you can romance either girl in OG but ultimately it's his choice as a character himself that matters.

I feel every single QRT on that post took it way out of proportion and ran into the stratosphere lol.

This post is my stream of consciousness.

Nobody here would say it means Aerith is literally his sister and you're a delusional piece of crap if you ship it so thank you for that.

**
For me it's more interesting it was a segment from this wider article which talks about Loveless, and that it's intentional the play ties in with the theme song of the game, and the underlying tragic implications of the game. I think it makes sense to have Aerith Rosa there and the tragedy of separation.

'Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth' Director Weighs in on Cloud’s Love Triangle

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's director and producer break down some of the game's key moments, and what the future of the franchise might be.

www.inverse.com

Yeah I'm not saying that anyone here actually would take it literally.
I was responding to the reactions on that post which I thought were all completely out of proportion considering this is just the same thing said over and over again. People are having full on THIS ENDS THE LTD. Both CTs and CA's. Which was part of my thoughts.

I don't think it ends anything.

And I don't agree with either of them lol.

But also the idea that it's bold to say this is also something I don't agree I don't think it's bold to say because it's how A's always been described.

But yeah that for me wasn't even the interesting part.

For me I noticed they're talking about the Aerith date and how Aerith is leading Cloud with "a sense of her fate". The sense of her fate stood out to me. This leads to me to think since she knew she was going to die what she was leading him towards getting the white materia here.

Which I thought was very interesting. And speaks of her as a planetary guide. Which also has always been the case.

 

[eleamaya]

For me I noticed they're talking about the Aerith date and how Aerith is leading Cloud with a sense of her fate. The sense of her fate stood out to me. This leads to me to think since she knew she was going to die what she was leading him towards getting the white materia here.

I just hope this is "different" Aerith because "knowing she was going to die" is contradictive to "I'll go back when it's all over." Correct me if I'm wrong because I dont play it as I dont have PS5--only watching on YT, but in the Rebirth version of the Sleeping Forest scene, Aerith doesnt say those memorable words.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I just hope this is "different" Aerith because "knowing she was going to die" is contradictive to "I'll go back when it's all over." Correct me if I'm wrong because I dont play it as I dont have PS5--only watching on YT, but in the Rebirth version of the Sleeping Forest scene, Aerith doesnt say those memorable words.

It's heavily heavily implied that yeah the dream date Aerith is a different Aerith. My thoughts are on probably Life stream White Aerith. That knows her fate.

In fact, I have a whole list of thoughts on this but I sadly have work now so I can't elaborate. But basically reading this interview cemented a few things to me in that regard. I will write out my full thoughts on that later.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Claudia cannot literally be referencing Aerith, because Claudia does not know she exists. The most likely scenario is that she is either trying to subtly suggest Tifa as a mature and capable girl, or simply teasing Cloud gently. Either way, Cloud is not interested, because he already has his eyes on Tifa and because he's ashamed at not fulfilling his promise to her.

Narratively yes, Aerith and her mother's house are supposed to be reminding Cloud of this conversation, and to confuse the player about what his mom is suggesting, but it's there as part of the shell game re: Cloud's issues, as much of the affection system is. It's there to keep you focused on a 'which will he choose' and ignore the bits that are 'off' with Cloud.

So often this discussion ignores Cloud's own words and actions (or statements about his motivations) in favor of what the people around him say. Like, 2000Gil is written from Cloud's perspective, and it's very direct about what Cloud's motivations are.

 

[Ryeleigh]

This has less weight but I used to walk variety shows of my favorite Jpop idols and the amount of times I've seen them refer to their ideal girl as a beautiful nee-san is way more than not.

I think he'd use different wording if that is what he meant and Kitase wouldn't reply with how lucky Cloud is if he really was talking about sisterly love there.

I think part of the confusion comes from that in Japan it is (or was?) normal to refer to unrelated people as neesan, niisan, obasan, obaasan, etc etc. And as you said, it can refer to personality too. For a recent example, like fandoms have adopted "he's such a girl dad" to describe a character's personality.

Nobody here would say it means Aerith is literally his sister and you're a delusional piece of crap if you ship it so thank you for that.

You know, I think that even if the author says that characters A & B are like siblings, it shouldn't be a reason for anyone to stop shipping them. Because ultimately you (general you, lol) saw something there that appealed to you and nobody's words should take it away from you. But I also think people are free to ship actual (still fictional) siblings, for whatever reasons they personally have, because ultimately shipping is just playing with paper dolls so it's like, whatever.

You know what? It's funny how Aerith is always like this even with Zack but some shippers are blind to see it, hence, "I hate CC!Aerith because she's different." The difference is Cloud reacting in annoyance and sighing while Zack loves to let her do what she wants; so this makes Aerith does harder with Cloud than she did with Zack. Aerith is never shy even with Zack for speaking her mind, it makes him attracted to her while in Cloud's case, it makes him slowly open up to her. Aerith is also never passive with Zack, it's her who asked him "How about we're going to the park?" and excited when Zack called it a date. I just think CCFF7 Reunion doesn't improve the original animation of PSP so she's looked that a bit shy and passive.

Yes! I think a big part of CC!Aerith confusion comes from the voice direction and the animation rather than her personality actually being different. Like, she immediately teased Zack after just meeting him. For example, when Zack was all "Wasn't I cool?" and Aerith was all, "Hmm... I dunno~", lol.

I think in every Cloud's ship even fanon and crack, Cloud is always the bottom/submissive one lol.

I've actually seen people say that CT can't be canon because they're both bottoms, lol.

 

[Xannis]

It's odd that Cloud's mom said he should get a girlfriend who acts like an older sister. I don't believe any mother in my country(US) would say that to their son, but perhaps it's different in Japan. I don't think Claudia was trying to put thoughts of incest into her son's head, I also don't think Hamaguchi describing Aerith as sisterly disqualifies any romantic relationship (As it would in an American context.)

2 points to this. Number 1 is I don't think Claudia's conversation equals her saying Cloud should find someone who acts like an older sister. At least that isn't what I took away from it. All I took from it was a mother seeming to know her son and what kind of girl she thought would be best. Claudia never met Aerith, so we're not even sure if Aerith would have actually fit her mental picture/description or not.

Number 2 is, frankly, I've never understood the dissection of this conversation. To me it's always just seemed like a conversation that while not irrelevant, doesn't necessarily need to have some deeper meaning or foreshadowing into Cloud's love life. Maybe it's literally just a parent giving their 2 cents on their kids lives as parents are wont to do? Sometimes I think people see Chekhov's Guns where there aren't any. Anyway, without specific Dev commentary on the matter I guess we'll never know but my take on this scene is they're trying to set a scene where Cloud is having one of those "Ugh mom leave me alone" conversations which we can all remember as teenage boys but it's to set up her death that you miss those things when they're gone.

 

[pxl_pushr]

2 points to this. Number 1 is I don't think Claudia's conversation equals her saying Cloud should find someone who acts like an older sister. At least that isn't what I took away from it. All I took from it was a mother seeming to know her son and what kind of girl she thought would be best. Claudia never met Aerith, so we're not even sure if Aerith would have actually fit her mental picture/description or not.

Number 2 is, frankly, I've never understood the dissection of this conversation. To me it's always just seemed like a conversation that while not irrelevant, doesn't necessarily need to have some deeper meaning or foreshadowing into Cloud's love life. Maybe it's literally just a parent giving their 2 cents on their kids lives as parents are wont to do? Sometimes I think people see Chekhov's Guns where there aren't any. Anyway, without specific Dev commentary on the matter I guess we'll never know but my take on this scene is they're trying to set a scene where Cloud is having one of those "Ugh mom leave me alone" conversations which we can all remember as teenage boys but it's to set up her death that you miss those things when they're gone.

This!

The whole conversation gets tossed out to hyperfocus on one bit to argue if it applies to Tifa or Aerith. Fact is, it can apply to both even if it’s far, far more logical that Claudia had Tifa in mind. Also doesn’t matter, because Cloud’s mind defaults to Tifa regardless.

The entire recollection is triggered by Cloud being in a cozy environment, having eaten a home-cooked meal and sleeping in a cozy bed. He had a conversation with a woman who resembles his own mother juuuust enough to trigger a memory and it’s based on a conversation he had with his mom (maybe) days before she’s murdered.

What we see is a very curated slice of a bigger conversation/series of interactions between Cloud and his mother.

People are severely underestimating Claudia’s potential role in all of this, as I’ve claimed before.

 

[Ryushikaze]

2 points to this. Number 1 is I don't think Claudia's conversation equals her saying Cloud should find someone who acts like an older sister. At least that isn't what I took away from it. All I took from it was a mother seeming to know her son and what kind of girl she thought would be best. Claudia never met Aerith, so we're not even sure if Aerith would have actually fit her mental picture/description or not.

Number 2 is, frankly, I've never understood the dissection of this conversation. To me it's always just seemed like a conversation that while not irrelevant, doesn't necessarily need to have some deeper meaning or foreshadowing into Cloud's love life. Maybe it's literally just a parent giving their 2 cents on their kids lives as parents are wont to do? Sometimes I think people see Chekhov's Guns where there aren't any. Anyway, without specific Dev commentary on the matter I guess we'll never know but my take on this scene is they're trying to set a scene where Cloud is having one of those "Ugh mom leave me alone" conversations which we can all remember as teenage boys but it's to set up her death that you miss those things when they're gone.

Another part is that Cloud says that's the last time he ever saw her alive, so that's the last conversation he ever had with her and we're to assume he strongly regrets things ending like that.

I've actually seen people say that CT can't be canon because they're both bottoms, lol.

I've definitely seen a chunk of the fandom that believes strongly in a Dom Cloud.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I've definitely seen a chunk of the fandom that believes strongly in a Dom Cloud.

I've seen CT fans say that too, lol. I don't know if it means anything but I think that "CT can't be canon because they're both bottoms" came from a CA fan. XD

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Claudia cannot literally be referencing Aerith, because Claudia does not know she exists. The most likely scenario is that she is either trying to subtly suggest Tifa as a mature and capable girl, or simply teasing Cloud gently. Either way, Cloud is not interested, because he already has his eyes on Tifa and because he's ashamed at not fulfilling his promise to her.

Narratively yes, Aerith and her mother's house are supposed to be reminding Cloud of this conversation, and to confuse the player about what his mom is suggesting, but it's there as part of the shell game re: Cloud's issues, as much of the affection system is. It's there to keep you focused on a 'which will he choose' and ignore the bits that are 'off' with Cloud.

So often this discussion ignores Cloud's own words and actions (or statements about his motivations) in favor of what the people around him say. Like, 2000Gil is written from Cloud's perspective, and it's very direct about what Cloud's motivations are.

Yeah I don't think any of this is ever supposed to be literal. Just story set up stuff. You set up a mystery and a narrative and it's all very meta. I wouldn't take anything as literal with that. However I did point out that Aerith's character description is definitely consistent and even used to tease the player to ask about that scene. For whatever reason. Maybe to have Cloud thinking about the past at her house, maybe being at home somewhere reminds him of his mom etc. Or it's for the baiting of a shell game. But it's interesting how consistent it is to describe her as such leading people around and one/nee san . Which is why I said to me I don't think that's talking much about literal relationships but a meta way to address character archetypes.

I think that's also the point of the whole thing to point out how Cloud's perspective IS ignored bc he's technically our puppet but as a character he breaks free of our and his mom and everyone's wishes. In a meta way and has his own say and opinions. Which yes ties into his identity conflict versus his true self.

We the player hear this dialogue and have our own preference and we think we decide for him through the mechanics but he doesn't get controlled by us and makes his own decisions.

I think that's brilliant gameplay wise.

@Ryeleigh Well as a CA fan myself that idea you can't have a relationship because of dynamics is just so limited lol???

 

[Skilganon]

I've seen CT fans say that too, lol. I don't know if it means anything but I think that "CT can't be canon because they're both bottoms" came from a CA fan. XD

Not to go OT, and the person who said this was most likely joking but...

I get irrationally angry when people assume that physical intimacy has to conform to the roles and power dynamics of porn and bdsm. I see lots of comments along these lines, usually from people you can tell have limited experience in this area. It's especially frustrating because these people tend the ones who think of themselves as 'progressive' when they are anything but. It makes people feel like they have to perform a role rather than experience pleasure on their own terms. #Rant.

 

[null]

Most people are just having fun with it. Pretty sure Cloud being a popular bottom originated from the illusory and obviously unintended, yet shockingly pervasive, sexual tension with Sephiroth. When the relationship is built on mutual obsession, hatred and control, the slash fiction just writes itself all night long.

The vibes Tifa gives off are so vanilla you could substitute them for extract in recipes. That makes folks suspicious and assume she must be a freak in bed. It’s always the ones you least expect.

 

[Ryeleigh]

@Ryeleigh Well as a CA fan myself that idea you can't have a relationship because of dynamics is just so limited lol???

Not to go OT, and the person who said this was most likely joking but...

I get irrationally angry when people assume that physical intimacy has to conform to the roles and power dynamics of porn and bdsm. I see lots of comments along these lines, usually from people you can tell have limited experience in this area. It's especially frustrating because these people tend the ones who think of themselves as 'progressive' when they are anything but. It makes people feel like they have to perform a role rather than experience pleasure on their own terms. #Rant.

Exactly. And it feels -- I don't know -- low-key insulting to be assuming someone's bedroom dynamics just from their looks or behaviour, lol?

The vibes Tifa gives off are so vanilla you could substitute them for extract in recipes. That makes folks suspicious and assume she must be a freak in bed. It’s always the ones you least expect.

Weirdly enough, I've seen Tifa/Aerith shippers turn Tifa into the "butch" partner of that relationship. And I'm wondering if it's because she's the sporty one or...?

 

[Hellenic]

Hmm. So I have read it and the comments as well

And I have a lot of thoughts.

I Am Not Surprised
So first I'm not shocked at all because in most Ultimania that is exactly how Aerith is described. As a nee-san type character that takes the lead. Strong-willed , direct, speaks her mind. Assertive type. And that's part of her inner strength. Also in the JP version of Costa Del Sol date she is again described that way by the fangirls trying to ship her and Cloud. It's a way to describe her personality.
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The Claudia scene reference I think is definitely there

As for the Claudia reference yeah leading you around without hesitation is what Claudia says.

And that line in Costa Del Sol from the fangirls is a direct reference to what Claudia says again "I bet you're the older sister type who leads without hesitation" and that's in line with the Ultimania which asks "Is Claudia referring to a girl like Aerith?" Is a huge giveaway they're connected there. UltimaniaOmega Pg 77, 10th Anniversary pg 50)
This has always been the case. It's why Aerith's theme plays in that scene in OG and EC. Because of this connection.
So it's like Hamaguchi's just saying what's always been said. Aerith is the older sister type who leads without hesitation is just her description. Considering his words are basically everything I had seen in those Ultimania, that's immediately where my thoughts went.
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But I don't think it's supposed to be just Aerith either


Though I'll also point out Tifa is also referred as mature in Mobius and TOTP which has always been my thoughts that this scene is actually supposed to set up the BOTH of them because remember there is a mystery there and you have an affection system in OG and I think it's supposed to make you wonder what girl she's referring to as part of the narrative. So it actually fits the both of them.

So I think this is a remnant of the LTD not an ending to it. It's more or the same amount of ambiguity not less. And while everyone is seeing this as ending the LTD I honestly see them as just saying what's always been said nothing new or groundbreaking and actually kinda baiting it with the Cloud's so lucky to have two girls feeling deeply about him comment.
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I Don't See The Sibling Thing Here.

I don't see him as saying they're like siblings just repeating stuff that has already been said. As I said this isn't different from Ultimanias and other references to Aerith.

I'm not sure that's what people want to hear but if you look at the JP comments from CTs several are about how Claudia's wishes don't match Cloud's and JP CA's are rejoicing about the Claudia scene. Which if it had nothing to do with that scene like EN speakers are saying they wouldn't be both mentioning Claudia. This has less weight but I used to walk variety shows of my favorite Jpop idols and the amount of times I've seen them refer to their ideal girl as a beautiful nee-san is way more than not. I'm just used to hearing it that way so my first thought wasn't actually siblings at all. And I still don't see it.

This all leads me to the conclusion that Hamaguchi himself is just referring to Aerith's character and personality as every other source has done. Not saying he sees her as a sibling as those sources didn't say that either. And we can't rule out how similar what he said is to those sources either. I think he'd use different wording if that is what he meant and Kitase wouldn't reply with how lucky Cloud is if he really was talking about sisterly love there.

Also both Tifa and Aerith have been described as motherly and Zack and Cloud both call her mom I wouldn't jump to oh they meant actually sisterly here for all these reasons.

Everything else though, is nothing new.
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I Don't Think This Statement Ends The LTD

However I have to say it seems very much like setting up ambiguity. Because it ALSO reminds me also how in Naruto there's a scene where Naruto is told by his mother Kushina that he better marry a person like her with many parallels to one girl and he ends up marrying someone else who is the one you're supposed to think it's the opposite. And it's pretty blatant bc the author literally says he wanted to mislead people so yeah. I'm not thinking Hamaguchi is trying to bait but that particular wording was very specific and by default will garner LTD attention anyway bc of the Claudia reference or people discussing what he meant by sisterly. Either way which in my view will continue it even further.
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So In Conclusion....I don't see it as groundbreaking.

So as a CA I can say it's a nice Aerith reference and sweet. On the surface I can see why CAs would be excited but I have seen this kind of bait and switch before already. Where the narrative has a parent character mention a specific trait which makes people think of a specific character and they don't actually end up with them because it's supposed to have you wondering.
This is why I think you see JP comments talking about oh but C doesn't need to follow what his mom thinks his best.

Because that's also a thing.
I have actually seen this happen a few times in my time with JP media so that's also a thing. Aerith herself replies..."That...I wonder" as if she isn't sure when the shipper girls in Costa Del Sol refer to her as the type to lead without hesitation. Which matches exactly what I was saying earlier that it's setting up a "Which is it?" type question of ambiguity there. So I wouldn't jump for conclusions that it's the end all be all either.
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I think Hamaguchi is just an Aerith fan and that's why he said it that way

Anyway I just think Hamaguchi is not a shipper here but an Aerith fan definitely and as an Aerith fan myself and not just CA I knew exactly what he was referring to.

Those are my thoughts on everything I see there. As you can see my thoughts differ vastly from probably literally everyone I've seen talk about this. As usual but yeah.

I very much agree that Hamaguchi most likely just meant the whole onee-san type of girl she is here like you described, but i do also get those sibling vibes with these 2 in some occasions, so honestly could go either way.

I do think this is a stupid point for Clotis to go nuts over, no offense to you other ones here. At the end of the day things don't change no matter which way Hamas quote is taken. This is just more stupid argument fuel for the LTD honestly.

 

[imach0c0]

As others mentioned above, Aerith "onee-san (older sister)" is not confirming anything new. Its just a reiteration of what's been mentioned in Ultimanias and dev interviews.

I think part of the Aerith "onee-san" discourse is that in general, the LTD fandom does not have a fundamental understanding of the nuances in Aerith's character nor the nature of her relationship with Cloud. This not only causes "onee-san" to be taken out of context, people are unable to distinguish between "like an onee-san" (a role) VS "like an onee-san type" (a personality). This results in misinterpretations.

Having said that, Aerith "onee-san" is not exclusive to Cloud. It is just more apparent in the CA dynamic because of their contrasting personalities and how Aerith impacts Cloud; she is able to bring out a different side of him (despite him being a closed-off shell of a person).

With regard to the OG Claudia scene, I think its presented as such to mislead the player thus I don't think its to be taken at face value. Although it can allude to Aerith (her theme used in the BGM + Claudia's ideal girl for Cloud parallels the "onee-san" archetype), there is enough ambiguity to be open to interpretation. However, the narrative direction in Remake seems to heavily allude to Tifa. Aerith's theme is replaced with the track that plays during the Water Tower promise scene and when Cloud wakes up, the starry night is reflected in his eyes - both associated to Tifa. Its an interesting change because there is far less room for player interpretation. Not only is the starry night a repetitive motif throughout the story, it symbolizes the CT promise; the crux to Cloud's Hero journey.

 

[Skilganon]

This not only causes "onee-san" to be taken out of context, people are unable to distinguish between "like an onee-san" (a role) VS "like an onee-san type" (a personality). This results in misinterpretations.

I would never bet on any shipping fandom to understand the subtlety of this distinction

 

[Ryeleigh]

I think part of the Aerith "onee-san" discourse is that in general, the LTD fandom does not have a fundamental understanding of the nuances in Aerith's character nor the nature of her relationship with Cloud. This not only causes "onee-san" to be taken out of context, people are unable to distinguish between "like an onee-san" (a role) VS "like an onee-san type" (a personality). This results in misinterpretations.

I would never bet on any shipping fandom to understand the subtlety of this distinction

Well, considering that certain people still don't seem to understand "Tifa is like a mother and sweetheart", I wouldn't hold my breath on the "onee-san" discourse.

Or you know what, I think people do understand, they just refuse to acknowledge it because "gotta score points for the LTD".