SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Skilganon]

We are always told "Cloud absorbed Zack's memories", yet this is never demonstrated clearly. Cloud never demonstrates knowledge he shouldn't have.

It's more likely that Cloud took what he knew from observing Zack, and replaced Zack with himself in his own memories. At the same time, completely forgetting the existence of Zack in order to block out the memory of his death. But this is difficult to explain (I feel the OG did a good job regardless), I guess it's just easier to say "Cloud absorbed Zack's memories" because that's a widely used sci-fi plot device. It's more of an absorption of surface-level identity traits than actual memories.

Jenova Cells' ability to absorb other peoples' memories conveniently isn't brought up again in the entire lore, even though this would massively impact the role of SOLDIERS if extrapolated to the wider society. But yeah, plotholes are all subjective.

 

[GodofWars]

Cloud never demonstrates knowledge he shouldn't have.

There is some stuff that Cloud couldn't have seen, like the first descent into the reactor, where it's only Zack and Sephiroth, or every moment in Shinra Manor's basement. That too was only between Zack and Sephiroth.

But I agree that some plotholes are pretty huge so far.

 

[eleamaya]

About people thinking the other side "steals their stuff": That's the creators making those decisions. Like for example how Nojima decided to "take stuff" from OG CA to connect it to ZA. As an artist it makes perfect sense to do this. But yes it's frustrating as a fan.

To be fair, no CA including me asked for that water tower scene. It was Nojima who wanted to write it. He also seems very proud of it. I certainly didn't want it. Though I have come to somewhat accept his vision of it from an artist/creative point of view. Still, it's not my favorite.

I personally don't like it because I feel it adds fuel to "Aerith is so jealous of Tifa!"

Oh I don't think CAs stole it, I think the creators gave it to them. It's the imagery that I see gone, no matter what is said on that tower... like it feels wrong (and I think it's part of the why it happens too, because everything is supposed to feel wrong in Nibelheim). But, I don't like it. That's why I say the devs owe us BIG. That and the stars. At some point I'm like, give Aerith something of her own??? It's like the devs didn't have any ideas. Same for the chocobo line, it was Tifa's and it had a cute impact on Cloud, but it's been given away.

I think if we look at the scene like this, it's deliberate.
One pair is different than others. Like day and night. It screams "something is wrong here."



Cloud and Aerith have scenes where they sit in places that are important to them and talk about their partners in both cases. Like we can now consider the scene in the midori park = the scene on the water tower

 

[GodofWars]

More than that (at least on the water tower one), I think there is a huge parallel made with Crisis Core. To each their promises. But I also think the playground has a huge impact because it was where Zack and Aerith flirted first. So I do agree that this is deliberate. Everything Aerith is going through with Cloud is meant to be seen with a step back because she's been here before, or Zack has. I get the feeling of this "red string of destiny" kind of trope.
Whether it's wrong or right, it is meant to be a call back, at least in the way I see it. It does feel very intentional.

 

[GodofWars]

Very small point of order, but it's when he THINKS Tifa has lost faith in him. Tifa still believes he's Cloud, just a Cloud who is not well.

Also, on that, I don't quite agree. This moment is the one where Tifa doesn't know her stand, she very much doubt Cloud isn't some kind of clone, and that's what sent him to the edge. This less than 30 seconds of doubt from her was enough to let go. Even though she ends up not letting go of him, it's a very important moment for both of them, because it show how much of Cloud's identity is perceived through Tifa, and how very human she is, how she worked through it because she cared so much for Cloud, in any way he is/was.

Sorry for the double post, couldn't edit this is my first one.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah what's interesting here is how Jenova is basically Sephiroth's puppet at this point. Anything it does is really involuntary with Sephiroth in control. So it goes to show how obsessed Sephiroth is with Cloud. But I agree with Skilagon from a writing perspective not everything needs to be orchestrated. It's fine if Cloud seeing Tifa just sparks the desire to be a hero and involuntarily (?) the Jenova cells manifest his desire without that being part of Sepiroth's plan. In fact, I'd prefer that.

I mean that's my understanding of it. I actually think Cloud waking up might be part of why Sephiroth chose when he did to start enacting his plans, rather than the other way around. Sephiroth has a goal, but he's actually kind of winging the first few steps.

The dev team has really gone back and forth with exactly how much he got from Zack and how much was his own self. How Cloud somehow got memories Zack is supposed to have.

I mean I'm pretty sure a lot of it is just Cloud being in close proximity with Zack for so long that the Mimicry power of Jenova allowed him to glom Zack's mannerisms and some surface level thoughts about what went down in Nibelheim.

I really hope pt 3 gives clear answers it's one of the more interesting yet confusing parts of Jenova's abilities. It also will help once and for all show that all of the hero stuff was not something Tifa wanted. She was fine with Cloud being a dork in Nibelheim forever. It was Cloud that sought that image himself.

But sometimes it feels like they're adding stuff as they go.

The hero stuff is pretty consistently interpreted to be Cloud's thought of what he needed to be. Tifa's desire for a hero seems to entirely be "If you're going to be a hero be my hero" because she believes he can be that hero. She wants the man who himself wants to be a hero and believes in his ability to become one.

It's more likely that Cloud took what he knew from observing Zack, and replaced Zack with himself in his own memories. At the same time, completely forgetting the existence of Zack in order to block out the memory of his death. But this is difficult to explain (I feel the OG did a good job regardless), I guess it's just easier to say "Cloud absorbed Zack's memories" because that's a widely used sci-fi plot device. It's more of an absorption of surface-level identity traits than actual memories.

That's certainly most of it, but there is stuff he has to have gotten some other way, like the events he was not physically present for.

Also, on that, I don't quite agree. This moment is the one where Tifa doesn't know her stand, she very much doubt Cloud isn't some kind of clone, and that's what sent him to the edge. This less than 30 seconds of doubt from her was enough to let go. Even though she ends up not letting go of him, it's a very important moment for both of them, because it show how much of Cloud's identity is perceived through Tifa, and how very human she is, how she worked through it because she cared so much for Cloud, in any way he is/was.

I think she's convinced he's not a clone, but the real Cloud, but she has different doubts- like him not being a SOLDIER, him not being at Nibelheim. Also I emphasize the Cloud thinks part because she never gets to say her part before Cloud jumps to the conclusion on his own and loses his last grasp of himself.

Sorry for the double post, couldn't edit this is my first one.

Do you not had the power to edit your posts yet? You should be at the post threshhold by now I'd think.


By the way, since it's been a topic of discussion here and elsewhere as of late, here's an article from over a year ago on NPTK's Japanese lyrics and the very different meaning they give off compared to the translated.

FFVII Rebirth Theme Song "No Promises to Keep" Original Lyrics Translated

No Promises to Keep was written in Japanese, and the official translation diverges from the original lyrics: Check out a direct translation.

www.frontlinejp.net

 

[GodofWars]

Do you not had the power to edit your posts yet? You should be at the post threshhold by now I'd think.

Editing works just fine, I just can't insert any quotes when I edit. My bad, I'm just going to have to be more careful!

I think she's convinced he's not a clone, but the real Cloud, but she has different doubts- like him not being a SOLDIER, him not being at Nibelheim. Also I emphasize the Cloud thinks part because she never gets to say her part before Cloud jumps to the conclusion on his own and loses his last grasp of himself.

You're right about nothing letting in on her way to process this. But this is what Sephiroth does at this point, he gets inside both of Tifa and Cloud's skin, get them to doubt, and it takes just one little hesitation from her to make his mind fall apart. So I'm not that sure about her knowing Cloud isn't a clone rather than a very unwell person. What I think is that she loves him so much that it carries her hopes, and said hopes are paid back in Mideel. We can also see when she's there that she very much blames herself for what happened at the Northern Crater and I think this is meant to solidify that this one instant mistake isn't supposed to define her rather than paint her as a character very much entangled with Cloud.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

So I'm going to be that person.

Regarding NPTK and its analysis. A lot of these times lyrics language comparisons are a bit of a trap.

For one there is usually this idea that the original language lyrics are more intended which makes sense. However the devs have spoken about the songs they release is being in English because it was part of the vision. Nomura says it here at the 22 minutes markhttps://youtu.be/okZYq0KjXvg?si=T7SIRpEYnnGYj2eW"&t=22m0s" and throughout this section they discuss the idea of singing in English . With Nojima saying he that he never thought the lyrics of Hollow would ever see the light of day. It was originally going to be shown in English only and we likely would have never seen the Japanese lyrics if Nomura hadn't added them.

For Promises To Keep they point out he wrote it so the lyrics could match with the melody when sung in Japanese and he emphasizes he can't write English.

But the English versions of these songs is just as as intended of a version as that of the original. Because that was what they wanted to present in the final version. Nomura's vision was English vocalists.
A lot of these times when we do these comparisons there's this tendency to treat different language versions as kind of like different songs. And this underlying impression that English lyrics are less legit. But if the intended presentation of the song was in English is that the correct approach?
---------------------------------------

Secondly. Looking at this article FFVII Rebirth Theme Song "No Promises to Keep" Original Lyrics Translated

The lyrics in Japanese are really not as different as this article seems to imply.

会いたい Aitai. I want to see/meet you again and will I see you again is also one of the most cliche lyrics in a love song in Japanese. This article writer writes "together forever more" sounds like a conventional love song. Well, so does aitai.

It's not exclusively only ever romantic but there are love songs literally titled that. Just like in the English version the Japanese version is expressing wanting to meet again. Just it's more questioning in Japanese.

English just makes it sound a lot more specific more like a narrative of meeting again. But it's really only because it's less vague.
-------------------------------

The most different thing here is not wanting to believe in fate. Adding the fact the street was specifically a cobblestone street. But a street is still mentioned. That place where they met, she wants to meet again is still mentioned etc. Also I'm not entirely convinced a cobblestone street or believing or not believing in fate is somehow more romantic anyway.

This underlying idea that the English added in the more romantic sounding parts? That is not exactly the case. What the English did was add specifics and change the phrasing of not believing in fate to a hope of meeting again vs. a more doubtful not knowing if they will. The idea however is still there.

What I'm saying is the song getting translated doesn't mean English is automatically more romantic sounding while the Japanese is automatically less so. Which seems to be the impression this article writer has. Nojima himself says it has elements of a love song. The ideas are still pretty much there in both.

And this is the case with not just this but a lot of translations of Japanese songs across all sorts of media. Lyrics are somewhat different but not usually so different that an entire new context that wasn't there in Japanese is magically added in English.

The song is described as a love song even if it's not to one particular person and is about the idea of meeting people by chance that doesn't change that yes those lyrics definitely sound like a love song even in the original language.
----------------------------------
I'm not saying this means what Nojima says is invalidated. I'm saying what Nojima says doesn't contradict that it very much sounds like a love song and that's in both languages. He says himself it does have those elements; they don't go away just because it's translated.

I get that the comparison with Japanese and English in that article is done with the idea of further understanding the context but there's also this impression there that the conventional love song elements were not present in the original when they definitely were.

Overall I never really subscribe to these types of comparisons because of that idea of "look how completely different the Japanese version is" is usually at the root of them. And that's not exactly the case.

-------------------------
Tldr: I'm not saying the song should be read as automatically romantic because of the romance elements. A song can have romantic elements while having a deeper message. I'm saying that these elements aren't that drastically different and definitely present in both languages. And for some reason we always have this impression more specific English phrases somehow make translations drastically different. When really it's just more specific than anything else.

Edit: clarity and tldr

 

[MelodicEnigma]

^This is true. When some people on Twitter say the songs have "completely different meaning", ironically enough I don't think they understand what that would actually mean. There's also just, there's a lot hanging on someone's intention with how much weight they want to put on their interpretative lenses, and for what purpose. There's such a focus on what people want to be able to interpret (and what people DON'T want people to be able to interpret), it seems to kind of skewer the process of understanding a bit. It's also just hard to put significant stock in some of this as revealing something deeper than what also would be available in the ENG from a thorough analysis. For instance, I find it silly to draw an important difference between "I won't say this was fate/destiny" and "I don't want to believe in fate" for the context of the line, not so far as to say it's a divergence. Direct word homage vs implicit word homage, cool. And making note of one line not having the word "chance" when it finds it's place in others is just...what's the point? “fate and promises won’t help me at all”/“fate and destiny are no guarantee”—c'mon. I also think the word nuance is becoming less understood nowadays with it being thrown around willy-nilly to try to explain a seemingly inherent difference, but that's a whole other thing.

That aside, it is absolutely true that songs can have romantic elements and have an applicable scope beyond that. Is that not what happens with actual mainstream songs too sometimes? I thought we knew this. Cause it's just pretty EASY for someone to just hear the songs and think of romance, and Nojima obviously knew that'd be the case cause they talk about it so preemptively, and the we shouldn't assume they're THAT tone deaf. He can't be that out of touch with how songwriting works, and the interviews tell me he knew people would see it this way—you'd have to know this from both the JPN and ENG lyrics. We know that SE always invests in the ENG version of their main songs, and they're not going to be lyrically 1:1, but it exists intentionally as is. Utada Hikaru (who wrote BOTH) obviously has different lyrics between ENG and JPN for KH songs, and even then they still meet in the middle of functional meaning overall. Passion is probably the one that diverts the most lyrically, and you can still have fun seeing what Utada intentionally did to compare the two.

It should be more about the fun of understanding how they work for content at hand. And if a game song actually is "completely different" (i.e. focusing on a whole different part of the main theme of the source material), then we should be able to see how that works too. If you think one captures something the other doesn't, it's not like it's default state of being is "wrong", anyway.

Edit: I do think it's funny too that Nojima describes creating the JPN lyrics as "fudging" because he knows that it wouldn't be what the song was sung from anyway. And the lyrics weren't supposed to appear. They're just there to be sung to generally followed along for those who can't sing the ENG. Splitting hairs over the "true version" feels as silly as it would when comparing the JPN and ENG of FF16.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

We know that SE always invests in the ENG version of their main songs, and they're not going to be lyrically 1:1, but it exists intentionally as is. Utada Hikaru (who wrote BOTH) obviously has different lyrics between ENG and JPN for KH songs, and even then they still meet in the middle of functional meaning overall. Passion is probably the one that diverts the most lyrically, and you can still have fun seeing what Utada intentionally did to compare the two.

Funny, I was actually thinking of Passion when writing this. Also Simple and Clean. While the lyrics are different the songs still have the same ideas. Hikari is about a relationship with problems and how the singer wants to hold on to hope despite that. And a bit of an epiphany about the relationship's future. So is Simple and Clean. Passion is about nostalgia and reminiscing on the past and looking to the future. So is My Sanctuary. Both are the official version. Utada is interesting like that.
------------------------

But yeah I think what it comes down to it we act like it's words that make something sound romantic. When it's more the concept is what sounds romantic. I could translate those direct lyrics into my native language and it would sound just as love song like as in English. Why? Because the part that reminds people of a love song is the idea of wanting to meet someone again. Not the type of street, not the fact of it being fate or not. Just the concept of wishing to see them again.
Just the concept of asking them to take their hand, hoping to bump into them again on the same street etc etc. Already by itself these concepts are pretty cliche love song elements.

That's where we're getting the this sounds like a love song idea from. Changing the words or even the language doesn't mean the concept changes.
-----------------------------

Which is why yeah a lot of these lyrics comparisons articles make some weird assumptions about how language works. They act like because something is not a 1:1 translation that the concept itself is suddenly different. And that's not the case.

As someone that speaks multiple languages and has worked as an interpreter it really doesn't work like that. Ideas don't usually get so lost in translation that they somehow transform into different concepts. What you get in the translation comes from the original; not out of nowhere. What is translated is usually close enough to the original to still get the concept. And these concepts, a lot of them are universal.
Yes nuance can be lost especially if it's idioms, or cultural references but often articles like this tend to exaggerate.
----------------------------------

Also I'm sorry but I find kinda funny this idea I often see on soc med that translating to English somehow makes things sound more romantic.
No it really doesn't. English is a very direct, blunt language. Usually I find Japanese song versions more romantic sounding because of that vagueness. Go figure.
------------------------------------------
I will say this when talking about Japanese songs in general: This idea that the Japanese lyrics are just so foreign that they can't be translated without losing so much of that nuanceTM is very common. But it's also a very weird way of thinking about languages and translation. Which is why I don't like these types of articles.
------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: Again this is not arguing NTPK is romantic because it has these elements. I'm saying the English is not "more romantic" than the Japanese. And the Japanese is not necessarily "less romantic" than the English. They have the same concepts. And that a lot of these lyrics comparisons articles tend to be very arbitrary when analyzing language usually giving the impression the differences are way bigger than they really are.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Actually I was thinking more about the difference in hoping verse almost pleading, and the difference between the feeling of "it's destiny, we don't need promises" and "please let it be luck not fate, please not let this be set in stone" than any sense of romance verse not romance.

Cuz again, arguing it's not a love song is silly, it's shaped and sung like one, it's just not purely romance, it's romance, agape, fillial, it's abounding love for everyone, and a hope to meet again despite Aerith's upcoming fate, assuming she's still aware of that in universe.

Actually, yes, it's the pleading, and that's what I think made NJM and the crew focus on Loren and Greatest Showman because she too was pleading for love in Never Enough. That creates a through line for me. Only it's not love Aerith is pleading for, but more time with those she loves. And that's why we see the departed Avalanche members including the ones she's never met because they too had their time cut short.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

Now that is nice observational point too, there being a correlation between them that I like that you can draw. With what you can call the plea/request within "make me believe, don't let go of my hand"/"please, find me" and what is the hopeful result of such plea in "till we meet again"/"never let me go"/"I hope, know someday you'll find me". I like it when you can take the ENG and JPN and stack to get complete sense and see the layers.

 

[Skilganon]

The thing that irks me about NPTK as a love-song to a singular individual is that it sets up expectations. A lot of people are going to be expecting some kind of follow-up/response, like a duet between Cloud and Aerith.

Like, either Aerith is trying to implore Cloud to meet her in the Promised Land and stamp all over Tifa's feelings, or she's tragically unrequited. Both perceptions could have been avoided if the song had actually sounded like it was for everyone. Or if there was simply no song.

I sound like a broken record, but this stuff keeps happening. Nojima said he plans to correct misconceptions. I'm still waiting on that.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

Honest question: Does a song or end credits or blue babies have influence on an almost 30 year old story? I know the answer. Before your brains explode just accept and move on is been too long to still living in denial.

 

[GodofWars]

The thing that irks me about NPTK as a love-song to a singular individual is that it sets up expectations. A lot of people are going to be expecting some kind of follow-up/response, like a duet between Cloud and Aerith.

Does it though ? Most players are not that invested in the song, they either liked it, loved it or they didn't. It only sets an expectation for hardcore CAs that see the game through a very specific lens. For the rest of us, it's just a song.
We can debate around it, the meaning of it, sure. But expectations ? I'm not so sure. It's supposed to be a send off after all.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Actually I was thinking more about the difference in hoping verse almost pleading, and the difference between the feeling of "it's destiny, we don't need promises" and "please let it be luck not fate, please not let this be set in stone" than any sense of romance verse not romance.

Cuz again, arguing it's not a love song is silly, it's shaped and sung like one, it's just not purely romance, it's romance, agape, fillial, it's abounding love for everyone, and a hope to meet again despite Aerith's upcoming fate, assuming she's still aware of that in universe.

Actually, yes, it's the pleading, and that's what I think made NJM and the crew focus on Loren and Greatest Showman because she too was pleading for love in Never Enough. That creates a through line for me. Only it's not love Aerith is pleading for, but more time with those she loves. And that's why we see the departed Avalanche members including the ones she's never met because they too had their time cut short.

This to me is actually the most intriguing and interesting lyrical part of the song. There are elements of this not subscribing to the idea of fate in the English. I agree it just isn't as obvious.

Another part that I think is not as reflected in English as obviously is the wondering if they'll meet again at all. Though we still get that in "where or when I wish I could say..."

"Just let me believe in the chance..." Is basically a plea. I actually like this line in the English, it's asking for permission to believe there's a chance to meet again. If find it very pretty.

This too:

"Till the day that we meet again/On our street, I want to believe/In the chance that we'll share a glance..."

And usually I'm that person that prefers the Japanese phrasing but it matches well with the melody and idea of wishing something is true rather than knowing. And this second part matches a lot with the original lyrics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically the phrasing in English is a bit of a remix of whatever is there in Japanese but with specifics sprinkled in. The Japanese lyrics by comparison come off as a bit more mysterious and there's a sense of not knowing.

But that's because Japanese is a high context language and English is so direct that is dampens any vagueness just by translating into English. Because in English sentences often require pronouns, and descriptions, subjects, prepositions to get the entire picture. Japanese can get get away with just having a verb in the sentence.
So English lyrics sound a lot more descriptive and more busy and flowery any sense of questioning and wondering kinda flies out the window unless they translate directly to "I wonder if we'll meet again". But maybe that didn't fit with the melody. So "where or when I wish I could say" that's the questioning element. It just sounds less emphasized.

So basically English sounds less questioning as a result even though that's still in there.
------------------------------
Honestly I think these types of observations are very interesting and from a music perspective help us understand about the thought put behind the song. Now that you pointed out the scene I noticed the song lyrics matches really well with the Gold Saucer scene.
-------------------
Also I agree with your analysis. It's that article I was basically arguing with. The writer is writing stuff like "Got a professional translator to do a direct translation, offering insights into nuances that the English version of the song might not fully convey, and doing away with nuances that were not in the Japanese version."

I got on my translation soapbox because... One: Direct translations aren't usually done for a reason. Two: It's a translation so the nuance one gets in English comes from the Japanese it's not magically added in from nothing. Yet this person is assuming exactly that. Stuff like that irks me. And oh they're saying the English sounds like a conventional love song meanwhile that direct translation they got sounds like the most generic Japanese anime love song ending I've ever heard. I could stick that at the end of Black Cat and no one would be the wiser.

Now that is nice observational point too, there being a correlation between them that I like that you can draw. With what you can call the plea/request within "make me believe, don't let go of my hand"/"please, find me" and what is the hopeful result of such plea in "till we meet again"/"never let me go"/"I hope, know someday you'll find me". I like it when you can take the ENG and JPN and stack to get complete sense and see the layers.

Yeah things like this I think are very cool. That's why I usually see it as the difference in versions of the song is usually same exact main idea, same exact concepts but with emphasis on different parts of the same thing. And it is cool putting it all together.

Basically as I said the phrasing in translations is usually more of remix of whatever is already there.

Also in general I do just like the Japanese lyrics by themselves. The song in English is pretty but as I said I tend to prefer the vagueness of Japanese lyrics.

The thing that irks me about NPTK as a love-song to a singular individual is that it sets up expectations. A lot of people are going to be expecting some kind of follow-up/response, like a duet between Cloud and Aerith.

While I wrote about how the imagery for this song as in the promotional materials like the website promoting it set some expectations with basically CA date and stuff but that was before the release of the game. And I don't think the song itself is indication of a follow up.
Even if one has never heard Nojima explain his vision of it, the lyrics are very much hoping to meet again but the point is there's zero guarantee. That's the no promises to keep part. So it actually says hey there's no guarantee we'll meet again. But the singer chooses to still wonder/hope/believe they will because Promised Land. So "Surely you'll find me".

And yeah as for the idea of expectations I'm a CA but...

The context of the song in game and certain cutscenes is very different from the imagery of the promo of it. So I never actually had expectations because I know a promo is never the actual thing.

I also didn't see this song and at any point think "Oh CA canon!"

I thought "Hmm so Aerith sings now? Neat."

Edit: Clarity.
Also disclaimer English is not my native language and I code switch constantly in RL so I'm always questioning my phrasing.
I hope my points make sense.

 

[GodofWars]

Even if one has never heard Nojima explain his vision of it, the lyrics are very much hoping to meet again but the point is there's zero guarantee. That's the no promises to keep part.

This is what most players get, yes. And I dare say only a minority sees it as any form of confirmation from Cloud (since there is none, and the song is about Aerith's feelings and that's it). Also the sadness of it because, well, she dies.

I thought "Hmm so Aerith sings now? Neat."

Haha, this is what sent me out of my mind. I was seated in front of my screen, thinking "Huh, that comes out of nowhere, but sure, why not" .This is also one of the reasons I had a hard time getting into the moment I guess. Took me a while to appreciate the meaning of it all.

 

[Empyrea]

Chiming in to say while I've got very little to contribute on how to interpret NPTK, I simply don't like the song. Why is there even a song? Why now? This game's padded enough as is.

I also don't like the whole "Aerith sings" now bit. Since when? And again, why is that in focus now?

I just think the whole play sequence is really silly. The OG's was just a very, very short cutscene that didn't overstay its welcome and was just meant to be fun, as I understood it.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Chiming in to say while I've got very little to contribute on how to interpret NPTK, I simply don't like the song. Why is there even a song? Why now? This game's padded enough as is.

I also don't like the whole "Aerith sings" now bit. Since when? And again, why is that in focus now?

I just think the whole play sequence is really silly. The OG's was just a very, very short cutscene that didn't overstay its welcome and was just meant to be fun, as I understood it.

I honestly originally didn't have any opinions either way. For a very long time I didn't even know what the whole song sounded like. But then I saw Loren Allred sing it live and now it's part of my playlist and part of my karaoke routine. Recorded she already sounds great but live she is absolutely amazing. Phenomenal. So I like the live version a lot more.

I like the lyrics. And I guess the idea of it is pretty sweet. But in the beginning when playing I didn't have strong feelings. Seeing Loren live though that made me cry and now I have a soft spot for it.

As for why they added it. I have been asking myself a lot of questions regarding decisions made in ReTrilogy and I just always come to the conclusion the devs are trying new things. I think the devs wanted to make the Gold Saucer experience grander and they've always been very experimental and inspired by movies so I guess it's something they wanted to try out in HD.

Now I appreciate the sequence a lot more. But yeah not everything is for everyone and it honestly did come out of nowhere. I just embrace the devs decisions now and see what they come up with.

@GodofWars Yeah interpretations that aren't mine rarely really bother me so I personally don't mind much if people view it as some moment of her expressing her feelings of any form romantic or friendship in Aerith's date. But for me personally it's a song about her journey so I have accepted what Nojima said about it as a monologue about meeting people by chance and hope of reunion and his vision for it is quite pretty. Also people here know I've gone on rants on how I don't like the idea of fate or destiny themes in stories and prefer chance encounters. In real life too basically I reject the idea of fate being set in stone so it's definitely a message I can get behind lol.

Yeah. I just accepted it lol. But I just wish there was maybe some story buildup somewhere or maybe a side quest to explain that Aerith could sing or maybe she likes to sing. Some mention of singing at all before springing this out of nowhere in the trailer/game lol.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Oh, I know. But it still doesn't stop the very extreme CAs from holding it up as C/A proof on the scoreboard against C/T cameos. :')

I mean, is it really a cameo? Or is it just scraping the bottom of the barrel?

The Virgin kiss in the actual game vs the Chad antivirus magazine Easter egg. Get dunked on!

There used to be actual scoreboards for these things back in the day. I wonder if there’s an updated version out there.

Slight correction to my previous statement. Cloud is the name of an antivirus found inside the Aeris magazine that defeats the fatekeeper vrius, which really makes Cloud sound like Aerith's tool more than anything.

Yeah. I just accepted it lol. But I just wish there was maybe some story buildup somewhere or maybe a side quest to explain that Aerith could sing or maybe she likes to sing. Some mention of singing at all before springing this out of nowhere in the trailer/game lol.

I blame them adding it to the main plot late in production. Harder to organically insert the seeds of it earlier when you do that.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I blame them adding it to the main plot late in production. Harder to organically insert the seeds of it earlier when you do that.

It was during COVID too right? It seems when Loren is recording with them people are wearing masks but I'm not sure.

I don't know but in my head a lot of things that confuse me about this game usually get answered by maybe they were working remotely?

 

[GodofWars]

Yeah interpretations that aren't mine rarely really bother me so I personally don't mind much if people view it as some moment of her expressing her feelings of any form romantic or friendship in Aerith's date. But for me personally it's a song about her journey so I have accepted what Nojima said about it as a monologue about meeting people by chance and hope of reunion and his vision for it is quite pretty. Also people here know I've gone on rants on how I don't like the idea of fate or destiny themes in stories and prefer chance encounters. In real life too basically I reject the idea of fate being set in stone so it's definitely a message I can get behind lol.

Agreed. This is also why I have absolutely no issue with confronting the way I see things with a different opinion. Worst case scenario is I won't have learned anything new. Getting angry or bothered because people don't agree is never going to be the way I do things.
I didn't care for the song first basically because it felt like it came out of absolutely nowhere, but mostly because I'm not into that kind of ballads, love songs or whatever. This is never something I could listen to on a day to day basis and pop clearly isn't my jam. But that is very personal, and it's about tastes, not about how this particular scene plays out in game.
I also like your way of seeing it (and Nojima's) better. I really don't like the idea of a woman singing to one man we have no way of saying reciprocates her feelings, telling him she'll wait for him even in death. It seems so desperate to me, and that is absolutely not how I perceive Aerith. It goes against everything she stands for as a character. And it's such a small scope to see the game, and her character through.
But I wouldn't be fully honest if I said I didn't get the one to one romance in this song and see why so many CA's are clinging onto it.

 

[Skilganon]

I really don't like the idea of a woman singing to one man we have no way of saying reciprocates her feelings, telling him she'll wait for him even in death. It seems so desperate to me, and that is absolutely not how I perceive Aerith. It goes against everything she stands for as a character. And it's such a small scope to see the game, and her character through.

You've put it much more eloquently than I ever could. 100%

 

[GodofWars]

That's very nice, especially since my english is really not that good !

 

[Eerie]

I also like your way of seeing it (and Nojima's) better. I really don't like the idea of a woman singing to one man we have no way of saying reciprocates her feelings, telling him she'll wait for him even in death. It seems so desperate to me, and that is absolutely not how I perceive Aerith. It goes against everything she stands for as a character. And it's such a small scope to see the game, and her character through.

While I personally do agree with what you said, this is how CoLW Aerith was depicted, both in LS White and Rebirth through the dream date. I also think it's why she had to die, so that ACC Aerith could exist. They are going to fill the gap between LS White Aerith and ACC Aerith through p3 - we're going to see what kind of reunion she has with Zack for this.