Origin of the Summons

While working with the script files of the original FFVII I pointed out a piece to GlitterBerri which only exists in the Japanese game and was never translated. Read her translation below.

This unused text hails from The Ancient Temple, the room with the murals. Sephiroth was supposed to say these lines after his used line,
“Ha ha ha…
It is not me.”, either before or after you've defeated the Red Dragon.

Sephiroth:
During the time when the Ancients
prospered there existed beings that
grew up bathed in the abundant Mako.

Sephiroth:
They were pure creatures of natural
shape. Several remain even now.

Sephiroth:
These beings sealed their consciousness
within materia, altering their lives for eternity.

Aeris:
The summon materia…

Sephiroth:
Correct.
Such a clever girl.

Sephiroth:
The creatures that protect this
temple have lived long and
seen countless ages pass.

Sephiroth:
They belong to this planet
even more than you.

This is the ONLY reference I've heard to a more detailed account of the origin of the summons. Like any piece of magic we know them to stem from the knowledge of the Ancients but I never considered that they were beings who grew up in their own mako baths then achieved immortality by sealing themselves inside materia.

I have searched TLS but I find no material that refers to the same info as the above unused text. Could this perhaps be mentioned in a section of the Ultimania Omega that is yet to be translated?
Or should we regard this "origin of Summons" story by Sephiroth as another scrapped idea?


For more of GlitterBerri's work visit her blog. I link to her FFVII section as it has been rapidly growing in content lately. =)
http://www.glitterberri.com/final-fantasy-vii

If you want to try out your own translation here is the Japanese text.

セフィロス
「かつて古代種がさかえたころ
　豊富な魔晄の光をあびて
&#12288;&#32946;&#12387;&#12383;&#31278;&#26063;&#12364;&#12356;&#12383;&#12301;<End>

&#12475;&#12501;&#12451;&#12525;&#12473;
&#12300;&#33258;&#28982;&#12394;&#24418;&#12398;&#32020;&#12377;&#12356;&#12394;&#12514;&#12531;&#12473;&#12479;&#12540;&#12383;&#12385;&#12384;&#12290;
&#12288;&#12356;&#12414;&#12391;&#12418;&#12356;&#12367;&#12388;&#12363;&#12398;&#31278;&#26063;&#12399;&#27531;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427;&#12301;<End>

&#12475;&#12501;&#12451;&#12525;&#12473;
&#12300;&#12354;&#12427;&#31278;&#26063;&#12399;&#12289;&#12510;&#12486;&#12522;&#12450;&#12398;&#12394;&#12363;&#12395;
&#12288;&#33258;&#12425;&#12398;&#21629;&#12434;&#23553;&#12376;&#12371;&#12417;&#12289;&#29983;&#12434;&#27704;&#36960;&#12395;&#22793;&#12360;&#12383;&#12301;<End>

AERITH
&#12300;&#21484;&#21914;&#12398;&#12510;&#12486;&#12522;&#12450;&#8230;&#8230;&#12301;<End>

&#12475;&#12501;&#12451;&#12525;&#12473;
&#12300;&#28982;&#12426;&#12290;
&#12288;&#29702;&#35299;&#12398;&#12399;&#12420;&#12356;&#23064;&#12384;&#12301;<End>

&#12475;&#12501;&#12451;&#12525;&#12473;
&#12300;&#12371;&#12398;&#31070;&#27583;&#12434;&#23432;&#12427;&#12418;&#12398;&#12399;
&#12288;&#21476;&#20195;&#31278;&#12398;&#26178;&#20195;&#12363;&#12425;&#26178;&#12434;&#12371;&#12360;
&#12288;&#29983;&#12365;&#12394;&#12364;&#12425;&#12360;&#12390;&#12365;&#12383;&#12514;&#12531;&#12473;&#12479;&#12540;&#12301;<End>

&#12475;&#12501;&#12451;&#12525;&#12473;
&#12300;&#12362;&#12414;&#12360;&#12383;&#12385;&#12424;&#12426;&#12418;
&#12288;&#12371;&#12398;&#26143;&#12395;&#12405;&#12373;&#12431;&#12375;&#12356;&#31278;&#26063;&#12383;&#12385;&#12384;&#12301;<End>-

That's really neat. I've seen a lot of explanations for Summons but they were all fan speculation. Nice to see it somewhat explained in canon.

Now what I want to know is when they do summon where does your party disappear to? Another dimension? Do they temporarily become the summon? Or do they just get out of the way?

I figure that the party disappears in the game just to decrease the amount of models the game has to deal with at the same time.

I don't see any reason to think that Genesis disappears when he summons one of the Bahamuts in Banora Village, or when Kadaj summons Bahamut Shin.

Nice. It's interesting to know that FFVII has (or had) a cannon explanation for them. I find this makes more sense then the summons just being "the knowledge of the Ancients" made into a crystal. Also, with these lines, the "Ha ha ha... It is not me." line makes more sense.

Shademp said:

Sephiroth:
During the time when the Ancients
prospered there existed beings that
grew up bathed in the abundant Mako.

Sephiroth:
They were pure creatures of natural
shape. Several remain even now.

Sephiroth:
These beings sealed their consciousness
within materia, altering their lives for eternity.

Click to expand...

This reminds me a lot of how Lucrecia found that mako pool that held Chaos. Only, Chaos didn't seal himself into a materia. Just a thought.

I think Summons deserve a more explored spot in FFVII. I have questions that I'd like answered. Like, do they ever turn on their Summoners?

I suppose the lazy explanation about their lack of opinion as to who they should attack or not stems from their longevity; they no longer care whose side they are fighting for just as long as they get the thrill of battle.
But just once I'd like to see someone summon a creature and instead be incinerated by that Summon. Maybe even have a Summon be the mastermind behind some plot.

I think the above is an example of wasted potential in the Compilation.

I always figured summon materia used the memories of great warriors and monsters to temporarily manifest them using spirit energy.

Shademp said:

I figure that the party disappears in the game just to decrease the amount of models the game has to deal with at the same time.

Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense. Boring explanation, though.

I don't see any reason to think that Genesis disappears when he summons one of the Bahamuts in Banora Village, or when Kadaj summons Bahamut Shin.

Click to expand...

True enough. Then again, they both run away/are far away when they use the summons, so it could be different when you're summoning it right on top of the place you're standing.

Shademp said:

I think Summons deserve a more explored spot in FFVII. I have questions that I'd like answered. Like, do they ever turn on their Summoners?

I suppose the lazy explanation about their lack of opinion as to who they should attack or not stems from their longevity; they no longer care whose side they are fighting for just as long as they get the thrill of battle.
But just once I'd like to see someone summon a creature and instead be incinerated by that Summon. Maybe even have a Summon be the mastermind behind some plot.

Click to expand...

I've read a couple fanfics that delved into the Summons lore/have them revolt, and they were always really interesting. I'd love to get more info on them as well.

I think the above is an example of wasted potential in the Compilation.

Click to expand...

Because we don't have enough examples of that already. Sigh @ you, Compliation fail.

Shademp said:

I think Summons deserve a more explored spot in FFVII. I have questions that I'd like answered. Like, do they ever turn on their Summoners?

Click to expand...

I would say it depends on which world we're in. If we are talking about FFVIII and FFX, then yeah, there's a good chance of it because of how the summons system works in those worlds. In FFVII though, I have a harder time seeing it happen as the summons are inside materia and can't get into the "real world" without someone else.

This has me speculating a lot about Vincents transformations, as well as Omega, because they're a lot like summons except they're not in materia; they're in people and they can get into the "real world" by themselves.

In the theme of the thread, here is the classic...

Obsidian Fire said:

This has me speculating a lot about Vincents transformations, as well as Omega, because they're a lot like summons except they're not in materia; they're in people and they can get into the "real world" by themselves.

Click to expand...

I've stumbled upon the same speculation. I would have liked the explanation for Vincent's (and Azul's) transformations, disregarding the parody nature of Death Gigas and Hellmasker, to be that their DNA is integrated with Summon materia. Sounds to me like an experiment Hojo would have liked to do, but NO we haven't received any satisfactory explanation for how the transformations work either.

Though at least we can tell from just looking at the transformations that it's not your typical "gruesome" transformation. It looks more like Vincent is just "replaced" with Galian Beast in DoC.

Shademp said:

I've stumbled upon the same speculation. I would have liked the explanation for Vincent's (and Azul's) transformations, disregarding the parody nature of Death Gigas and Hellmasker, to be that their DNA is integrated with Summon materia. Sounds to me like an experiment Hojo would have liked to do, but NO we haven't received any satisfactory explanation for how the transformations work either.

Click to expand...

Should have just said it was the Jenova virus.

At the very least I think that these translations deserve an article on the frontpage.


X

Shademp said:

II've stumbled upon the same speculation. I would have liked the explanation for Vincent's (and Azul's) transformations, disregarding the parody nature of Death Gigas and Hellmasker, to be that their DNA is integrated with Summon materia. Sounds to me like an experiment Hojo would have liked to do, but NO we haven't received any satisfactory explanation for how the transformations work either.

Click to expand...

This isn't that far off. While SE never says there is DNA in the materia, the 10th Anniversary Ultamania does say this about the experiments done on Vincent.

At first Hojo experimented with monster transformation, however the experiments were a failure because Vincent, though still living, remained in a death-like state. As a last resort to rehabilitate him, Lucrecia inserted Chaos’ DNA into his broken-down body.

Click to expand...

I'm looking at that and thinking that the "tainted mako" put into Vincent is part mako/part Chaos' DNA.

Wow... that is awesome!

I love all this unused stuff... I wonder why they didn't go with this. It's kind of a neat little piece of dialogue...

X-SOLDIER said:

At the very least I think that these translations deserve an article on the frontpage.


X

Click to expand...

Feel free to add any of my work to TLS, X-SOLDIER. I like your website very much, and I think my work ties in with your aim of amassing a compendium of information regarding the FFVII Compilation. All I ask is that you link the original page you found it on as well as credit those who contributed.

In addition, I would be happy to look over anything that remains to be translated for the site. I'm always looking for new material and FFVII is one of my primary interests.

GlitterBerri said:

Feel free to add any of my work to TLS, X-SOLDIER. I like your website very much, and I think my work ties in with your aim of amassing a compendium of information regarding the FFVII Compilation. All I ask is that you link the original page you found it on as well as credit those who contributed.

In addition, I would be happy to look over anything that remains to be translated for the site. I'm always looking for new material and FFVII is one of my primary interests.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the compliment. We try to ensure that we link back to any translations that aren't done on site, and your translations would be no different. If I can find some time this weekend, I'd be up for trying to write something, though I'm a little strapped for time, but if anyone else wants to volunteer, I'd be more than happy to post up the content, and give credit where it's due (unless it's one of the Site Staff who can post it themselves).

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to drop you into the Site Staff permissions group so you can look over some of the projects that we've been looking at over the last little while if you're interested. Hito (our other resident translator) could probably tell you if/what hasn't been done, though I believe that his username is "Sweet" right now. Either way, it's fantastic to have you around, and interested in helping out.


X

X-SOLDIER said:

Thank you very much for the compliment. We try to ensure that we link back to any translations that aren't done on site, and your translations would be no different. If I can find some time this weekend, I'd be up for trying to write something, though I'm a little strapped for time, but if anyone else wants to volunteer, I'd be more than happy to post up the content, and give credit where it's due (unless it's one of the Site Staff who can post it themselves).

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to drop you into the Site Staff permissions group so you can look over some of the projects that we've been looking at over the last little while if you're interested. Hito (our other resident translator) could probably tell you if/what hasn't been done, though I believe that his username is "Sweet" right now. Either way, it's fantastic to have you around, and interested in helping out.


X

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what are you intending to write?

And sure, that would be wonderful. Where might I find these projects listed once I receive permission to view them?

GlitterBerri said:

Out of curiosity, what are you intending to write?

And sure, that would be wonderful. Where might I find these projects listed once I receive permission to view them?

Click to expand...

I was contemplating either a bit just for these translations, or either piece about what we DO know about magic and materia in the FFVII world.

The EBC (just above the other forum you got access to. I made a topic for you to make it easier to find).


X

Shademp said:

I think Summons deserve a more explored spot in FFVII. I have questions that I'd like answered. Like, do they ever turn on their Summoners?

I suppose the lazy explanation about their lack of opinion as to who they should attack or not stems from their longevity; they no longer care whose side they are fighting for just as long as they get the thrill of battle.
But just once I'd like to see someone summon a creature and instead be incinerated by that Summon. Maybe even have a Summon be the mastermind behind some plot.

I think the above is an example of wasted potential in the Compilation.

Click to expand...

Didn't you know...? Zirconiade was actually a hero for the Summons. He was using Fuhito all along, and had the mission of killing the human race, to free his compatriots from their human oppressors.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!



But seriously, this is a great find.
I don't understand why they removed it from the american version. Very weird...

OWA-2 said:

But seriously, this is a great find.
I don't understand why they removed it from the american version. Very weird...

Click to expand...

Just to make sure there is no confusion, the text remains unused in the Japanese version too although the text remains in the game files. Some of these parts were never translated and may exist as empty dialogue boxes in the English game. Sometimes the dialogue boxes were removed completely.

Just how the translators decided that some parts should be translated and which ones should not I do not know. =/

GlitterBerri, thanks for your awesome work! Really, that's some good shit.

Shademp, thanks for bringing this to our attention.

YACCBS said:

Now what I want to know is when they do summon where does your party disappear to? Another dimension? Do they temporarily become the summon? Or do they just get out of the way?

Click to expand...

The Crisis Core Complete Guide sheds a bit of insight into this:

"Beings which are called forth from summon materia, many of which outwardly resemble monsters. As seen in the original game of FFVII, many of the summon beasts draw their targets into their own unique space in order to attack. However, Advent Children&#8217;s Bahamut Tremor, was a special summon beast who attacked while interacting with the real world."

Ariadne said:

The Crisis Core Complete Guide sheds a bit of insight into this:

"Beings which are called forth from summon materia, many of which outwardly resemble monsters. As seen in the original game of FFVII, many of the summon beasts draw their targets into their own unique space in order to attack. However, Advent Children’s Bahamut Tremor, was a special summon beast who attacked while interacting with the real world."

Click to expand...

In other words, we just decided to make up new rules for Bahamut Tremor for the sake of having an awesome fucking fight sequence.

Thanks for the info.

Well, it says that many (not all) of the summons in the original game pulled enemies into their own dimensional space, so it wasn't entirely new rules for Bahamut Sin.

In Crisis Core we see Sephiroth break into Ifrit's dimensional space, but we also see Genesis summon that gold Bahamut out into the real world. The rule isn't hard and fast in that game either.

Obsidian Fire said:

In Crisis Core we see Sephiroth break into Ifrit's dimensional space, but we also see Genesis summon that gold Bahamut out into the real world. The rule isn't hard and fast in that game either.

Click to expand...

I remember that one. I can't remember any summons in the original game that didn't have the party fade out, though.