The "Which FF military force would win in a war" poll idea.

The LTD thread seems to be popular here, so I thought I'd bring up some other ideas that might bring up some fanboy/girl fervour as well.

I remember in an old FF forum I used to go to, before I even went to ACF, there was a topic that was something in regards to "Shinra vs Galbadia", or it may have been "Shinra vs Galbadia and Esthar" or whatever. Point being, I thought the discussion was interesting at the time, and thought an all encompassing discussion involving all the states/corporations/groups in the FF series with their own military would be interesting.

Anyways, if you guys are interested, perhaps you could help me list them all, and then we could have each fight each other one on one in a poll, until we have an ultimate winner.

Suggested thus far:

FFII: Wild Rose Rebellion.
FFII: The Palamecian Empire.
FFIV: The Baron Kingdom.
FFIV: The Dwarf Kingdom.
FFVI: The Gestahl Empire.
FFVII: Shinra Inc.
FFVII: AVALANCHE Ravens.
FFVII: THE WRO.
FFVII: Wutai.
FFVIII: Galbadia.
FFVIII: SeeD.
FFVIII: Esthar.
FFIX: Alexandria.
FFIX: Lindblum.
FFIX: Burmecia.
FFIX: Cleyra.
FFX: Yevonites.
FFX: Al Bhed.
FFXI: Bastokan Military.
FFXI: San d'Oria Military.
FFXI: Windurstian Military.
FFXII: Archadian Empire.
FFXII: Kingdom of Dalmasca.
FFXII: The Resistance.
FFXII: Rozarrian Empire.
FFXII-RW: The Aegyl.
FFXIII: Guardian Corps.
FFXIII: PSICOM.
FFXIII-2: Caius's Army.
FFT: The Hokuten.
FFT: Nanten Knights / Order of the southern sky.
FFT: Knights Templar.

2 The Palomecian Empire
4 The Baron Empire
4 The Dwarf Kingdom
6 The Gestahl Empire
7 Shinra Inc.
7 The WRO
7 Deepground
T The Hokuten
8 Galbadia
8 SeeD
8 Esthar
9 Alexandria
9 Lindblum
9 Burmecia

Those are the games I know.

XII: Archadian Empire (Archadian Judges? I dunno the official name of Archadia's army.), Order of the Knights of Dalmasca (Dunno if they count though.)

Tactics: Mr. Ite, how could you forget the Nanten Knights/Order of the Southern Sky? 3 Words:
THUNDER
GOD
CID

Everyone else can go home.



(Well actually scratch that. Ramza and his merry group can make everyone else go home.)

and uh, I guess the Knights Templar too, if we count Church of Glabados too. (There's also the Order of the Eastern Sky, but no one cares about them. Also brings to question of a Order of the Western Sky exists too.)

XIII: Guardian Corps, PSICOM

....Can we include rebel groups too or no?

Trainer Red said:

XIII: Guardian Corps, PSICOM

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I'd suggest splitting that in two, as they're two different entities run by different sources. But that's probably what you meant.

Fangu said:

I'd suggest splitting that in two, as they're two different entities run by different sources. But that's probably what you meant.

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Yeah, that's what I meant. (Did the same thing with Archadia Empire and Dalamasca's military force. )

FFX: Yevonites (Pretty much everyone in Spira bar the Al Bhed.)
FFX: Al Bhed.
FFXII: I've put the Order of the Knights of Dalmasca under the "Kingdom of Dalmasca", unless there is reason why they should be a separate entity, but I think not.
FFXII: The Resistance I've put in because it is a reasonable size force.

I so want to put in FFV Kingdoms, and FFXII Rozarria, but there isn't much information to work from. As added to OP, I think it might be a good idea to mention each group's assets, EG: Shrina's got the Sister Ray, SOLDIER, etc.

What is the military force that attacked Valhalla in the XIII-2 opening, cause that included the strongest FF villain of all time. After them, i'm putting my money down on the Archadian Empire, they seem to have the largest airshipfleet (and the capacity to go nuclear on a city).

Oh, man, I remember those Galbadia vs. Shin-Ra wars at GameFAQs. Shit got intense. People were very passionate.

I think with those two in particular, you have to compare them when they were at their best -- which still doesn't really help you reach a conclusion. Depending on geography, the Sister Ray might be useless while Galbadia's missile base can apparently hit any target anywhere in the world.

Of course, assuming the Sister Ray is mounted in such a way as to provide 360-degree rotation, any stationary base (e.g. the missile base) would end up fucked. On the other hand, Galbadia ends up with two mobile bases during the course of FFVIII, one of them boasting a force field. While the extent of its capacity to take abuse is unclear, the force field would presumably hold back anything but a blast from the Sister Ray and perhaps an attack from the more powerful members of SOLDIER.

Of course, even with this defensive advantage, the Lunatic Pandora is not exactly built for offense, so it would pretty much require the aid of a fully-manned, ready-for-battle Galbadia Garden to actually put a hurting on the enemy. I dare say Lunatic Pandora's greatest application would be to park it above the missile base so as to provide the stationary installation with the benefits of a force field.

Yet doing so would open up the mobile base to an attack from the Sister Ray. It would then become a question of whether the missile base fired upon the Sister Ray first, or vice versa.

With respect to the mobile Garden aiding Lunatic Pandora in an assault, Shin-Ra would have the distinct advantage due both to numbers and the strength of its SOLDIER unit, which was apparently quite large prior to Genesis's exodus of many 2nd and 3rd Class members during Crisis Core.

Furthermore, though all Galbadian soldiers can use para-magic, even if Shin-Ra kept materia issued only to members of SOLDIER, you still have sheer numbers on that side, even when reduced only to boots on the ground wielding machine guns.

Granted, with a solid defense, lucky timing and the proper application of its own impressive firepower, those numbers would be leaves in a tornado.

My conclusion is that Galbadia has more sophisticated weaponry, but Shin-Ra's strength of numbers and capacity for crude-yet-effective destruction would make them far from easily toppled. Much of it would come down to intel, timing (e.g. who fired first, as well as with what) and plain old luck.

That's the sort of analysis I'm talking about, but if this ever gets underway, maybe Galbadia and Shinra will never meet, depending on the draw? .

@Minato: Haven't played the game, so wouldn't know.

Are we factoring in special powers/weapons that different militaries have? Because some of those are straight deal breakers. FFIX's summons have been utilized by Alexandria and those can flat out destroy a town in one hit. Same thing with nethecite in XII.

Then you have to factor in scientific advancement, and then imo, the two competing armies there are Esthar and Psicom (you don't get to know Guardian Corps that well, and even then I always felt they were more a domestic police force than military). At first glance though, I'd have to give it to Esthar simply because in game, it's heavily hinted that Psicom is so babied and never having met a real threat that it doesn't know how to handle it. It got utterly stomped by Pulse monsters invading it. Then again Esthar got its ass handed to itself with the Lunar Cry.

Does Burmecia include Cleyra or would that be considered a seperate nation? I am loving this idea.

I think Burmecia should be counted separate from Cleyra... Unless we think "ancient times"?

I would also add Rozarria from FFXII. Although they do not appear in the game, properly speaking, they are supposed to be capable of posing a serious threat to Archadia.

Quick question: Would SeeD be considered it's own military force? or do they not have enough people for that?

If including cadets, I would consider them their own force, yes. There were enough of them in a single Garden -- and they were well-trained enough -- to successfully take on the strongest arm of the Galbadian military.

@Splintered: I suppose if you consider one side having some sort of ultimate power, you'd vote for them. If you think both sides could destroy each other in a single hit, mutually assured destruction style and what not, perhaps there might be a small amount of survivors on one or both sides, and then you think about who would be victorious out of them. This whole discussion is really hypothetical, and there's no doubt going to be favouritism in people's decisions, or flip of the coin or whatever. It comes down to who you think is gonna win. I'll scratch the whole handicap idea =p.

@Lex: I've added Cleyra.

@Alex Strife: I suppose I can add places like Rozarria that have little information about them.

@Obsidian fire: If you don't think they're a large enough military force, then I suppose you could vote against them in a battle with a group you consider superior.

Oh no, I think they're large enough, it's just that they don't exactly fit the normal definition of a military force. And it isn't just SeeD, all the Balamb guys have GFs... eek!

queen garnet writes letters to her friends in lindblum, burmerica, and cleyra. they take on the opposing armies as a united front.

god help us.

I think there are 25 forces now, so need one more to even it up.

@Minato: From my brief research, when you talk about the military force attacking Valhalla, does that have anything to do with Caius? If so, would it be fair to call it Caius's army, or something like that, unless it has a proper name. Feel free to chip in, anyone else, if you know.

I don't remember all these games very well/can't even recall if I finished a lot of them but here goes...

I am erring on the side of Shinra dominating? But that is working under a lot of assumptions. Mainly that all the planets are of similar size and resources, and that this war would be inter-planetary (idk how that would even work but let's just say it does??? ok). I say this because I feel as though Shinra (+Deepgroud, I guess) is one of the only force that brings complete and total global hegemony to the table. It literally has all the resources of its planet at its disposal. The Gestahl Empire and the Yevonites are similar in that regard, but I get the impression that Shinra has a more perfected military technology than either. All the other games have a lot of internal political struggles that Shinra doesn't really have to face.

Basically with Shinra, they have the ability to go into a state of total planetary war. For everyone else, there is a limitation to their specific continent, resources, etc.

Though of course that could work against them in the way it did with Nazi Germany - that is, their resources deplete before they can take out ALL their enemies (assuming this is a war that is inclusive of multiple players...)

I'm honestly just going by which of them struck me as the most powerful. What with the information and stipulations we have however, it's practically impossible to answer. I think this would be an easier question to answer if we actually made a hypothetical map of where these military forces would be located on this super-mega-Final-Fantasy-conglomerate planet

The only way for this to work is if you suspend your disbelief a tad and don't think too hard about how exactly military forces from different planets would fight each other.


Realistically, Shinra would destroy a lot of them, considering like looney said, they have complete and total power projection over the entire planet. In the real world, the most powerful militaries are the ones who can control the most resources, put themselves anywhere, and any time. Shinra has that in spades. Not even the Empire from FFVI has that going for them.

In terms of logistics and how armies usually act, FFXII probably has the best portrayed military (as opposed to the usual 'bad soldier dudes') I've seen in a FF game, but that's more of a Yasumi Matsuno actually knowing his fucking shit being a history student and all.

I am going to give the other FFs the benefit of the doubt and also assume those armies have tactics and proper ranks and formations and actually know how to conduct war because comparing how FF usually writes militaries and how Yasumi Matsuno writes militaries is a whole nother beast.

Even if we scale all the world and their populations the same, Shinra still took like 8 years to take down Wutai, and that was when they actually had Sephiroth, Genesis and most of SOLDIER still at their disposal. That was the height of their military power. The Palamecian Empire and the Baron Kingdom (it should say Kingdom in the OP), on the other hand could pretty much stomp whoever they wanted on their world in a day.

Archadia is only one empire on one continent on their world, but they do have hundreds of airships while most only have 1-10 and have the technology to blow up a city, their strike capability seems to greatest to me.

The way I imagine these battles occurring is that the military forces appear on some randomly generated world (with all their assets n' stuff). It'd be a world that gives neither side any particular advantage beyond their own means.

We could make this a lengthy discussion - one I wouldn't have the time for - where we could put them in different kinds of worlds (eg: a desert world, a world without much resources, a forest world, whatever), but I'm just thinking an average world. Perhaps we can do more elaborate things later? I enjoy the ideas though .

As for candidates for the 26th spot, what about either Wutai of FFVII, or FFXII:RW's Aegyl of Lemurés? I haven't played the game, but reading the wikia, they sound like a decent force. That or the group Minato is talking about, which still needs to be identified =p. Or militaries from FFXI and FFXIV; games that I haven't the slightest clue about at all.

Since Deepground did belong to Shin-Ra originally, and they did actually dispatch Weiss and Nero to the outside world on one known mission, maybe we should count it under them at their highest point? That would give you an even number.

Ghost X said:

I think there are 25 forces now, so need one more to even it up.

@Minato: From my brief research, when you talk about the military force attacking Valhalla, does that have anything to do with Caius? If so, would it be fair to call it Caius's army, or something like that, unless it has a proper name. Feel free to chip in, anyone else, if you know.

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Yeah, I was talking about the army of creatures Ciaus was working with.

Even if we scale all the world and their populations the same, Shinra still took like 8 years to take down Wutai, and that was when they actually had Sephiroth, Genesis and most of SOLDIER still at their disposal. That was the height of their military power. The Palamecian Empire and the Baron Kingdom (it should say Kingdom in the OP), on the other hand could pretty much stomp whoever they wanted on their world in a day.

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That's a difference of scale, though, and not really something to measure their objective military power on. They're still two different armies with different sets of capabilities.

Alexander the Great almost took over the entire known world in like, what, a decade? The German Army on the other hand, took almost a decade just to try, and fail, to take over Europe. However, the German Army would obliterate Alexander's military forces in a very very short period of time, personal successes nonwithstanding.

See what I mean?