Mod dispute over LTD

Fairheartstrife · May 22, 2011

John Marston said:
Tone it down people.

Tone what exactly down? No one has been uncivil. Is there some secret standard of civility you have, Dacon? Because unless you are holding this thread to a higher standard than the rest of the forum no one is out of line. Of course, we could always use your own posts on this forum in other threads as a standard of measurement and determine civility that way. Feel free to bring the 'hammer of God' down on me, but there is no behavior rubric here that anyone has violated. You're over-modding, dude. Tone it down.

Max Payne · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
Tone what exactly down? No one has been uncivil. Is there some secret standard of civility you have, Dacon? Because unless you are holding this thread to a higher standard than the rest of the forum no one is out of line. Of course, we could always use your own posts on this forum in other threads as a standard of measurement and determine civility that way. Feel free to bring the 'hammer of God' down on me, but their is no behavior rubric here that anyone has violated.

Yes we are. Soon we will enforce these same standards for all debates on the board.

Now get over it. You people are getting a little heated here and I'm not the only one who sees it, we know where this shit leads, so tone it down. Note I am not singling out any one person. I am telling everyone doing it to stop with the not so subtle pokes at each other.

You're over-modding, dude. Tone it down.

I'm doing my job, deal with it or go participate in another discussion.

Fairheartstrife · May 22, 2011

John Marston said:
Yes we are. Soon we will enforce these same standards for all debates on the board.

Now get over it. You people are getting a little heated here and I'm not the only one who sees it, we know where this shit leads, so tone it down. Note I am not singling out any one person. I am telling everyone doing it to stop with the not so subtle pokes at each other.

Feel free to PM me specific examples of this heatedness, because I'm not seeing it. This is not said snidely, I mean it, as I have no idea what transpired in any of the above back and forths that warranted a warning and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'm doing my job, deal with it or go participate in another discussion.

You're modding with "do as I say" and not leading by example. Your reprimand posts are borderline hostile. I AM participating in this discussion, CIVILLY. And don't worry, I've already addressed my concerns about you 'doing your job'.

Apologies for disrupting the thread.

Max Payne · May 22, 2011

No. If you have a problem or feel you are being treated unfairly do it in Feedback. In fact I'm going to split the thread off.

If you have any valid evidence of your complaints bring it forth there.

There's no tolerance here and we meant it.

Cookie Monster · May 22, 2011

Did you even bother to read the first post of the LTD?

Fairheartstrife · May 22, 2011

Thor said:
Did you even bother to read the first post of the LTD?

You mean the one threatening the members with the hammer of God in a tone of civility that the moderators are condemning? Yeah, I read it.

I agree that direct insults and uncalled for attacks should be moderated. I also think the tread should have the same standards as the rest of the forum. Feel free to go read the posts and decide for yourself if the tone was 'uncivil' enough to call for reprimand.

I have nothing against moderation. Everything against a double standard.

Tennyo · May 22, 2011

The problem is, though, is that time and time again people have shown that they just can't handle themselves in the LTD thread. It was either become more strict with it or completely close it down.

Ⓐaron · May 22, 2011

Would anyone even have taken the OP seriously if Dacon's post hadn't been phrased that way? At least four people still don't seem to have understood that any post not directly relevant to the LTD is off-topic. Sorry, but if the opening post had been phrased completely politely, no one would have paid attention to it. And as it was, it was still a lot more polite than it could have been. If I had written that post there would have been a hell of a lot more swearing in it.

Joe · May 22, 2011

The LTD thread is renowned for the shit that escalates from there. It happens alot. When they were first-time offences then yeah the thread was treated the same as the rest of the forum. Now it needs to have a strict eye kept on it because it can't go long without trouble.

You don't treat a multiple-offending serial killer exactly the same as a first-time-offence purse snatcher. Consider this the LTD's probation.

Max Payne · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
You mean the one threatening the members with the hammer of God in a tone of civility that the moderators are condemning? Yeah, I read it.

That makes no sense. The moderators never condemned "a tone of civility".

I agree that direct insults and uncalled for attacks should be moderated. I also think the tread should have the same standards as the rest of the forum. Feel free to go read the posts and decide for yourself if the tone was 'uncivil' enough to call for reprimand.

The standards have been enforced on the thread because of the previous cluster fuck the thread had become. The "tread" is going to be more heavily moderated to keep the discussion from falling to the same level of nonsense.

You think saying sarcastic shit like this:

Well, gosh-oh-golly-gee, you can't ignore canon in favor of opinion on the off chance SE may retcon something sooner or later. Canon is canon. Period.

In response to this post:

As for the "Aeris loving Cloud thing...." Well golly me, I DID forget about COLW.... which I now went back to read and well you guys were right. However we all know that Square tends to retcon Final Fantasy 7 alot so I don't really put much validity in their declaration that Aeris was in love with Cloud, when in fact she didn't even know the real him.

Prompts healthy civil discussion? Guess what? It doesn't. You were clearly mocking EUA. We are not tolerating shit like that in the debate.

I have nothing against moderation. Everything against a double standard.

I have everything against people manufacturing double standards to justify their butthurt.

Fairheartstrife · May 22, 2011

Derringer Meryl said:
The problem is, though, is that time and time again people have shown that they just can't handle themselves in the LTD thread. It was either become more strict with it or completely close it down.

Which I would not have a problem with if the Mods upheld the SAME standards they are holding the members to. It's one thing if someone WAS being uncivil, and yet another for constant, unwarranted 'warnings' in the thread. The first page is nothing but the mods behaving EXACTLY the way they are trying to prevent. Look at Dacons response to Q's question. Look at the 'tones' of the warnings they gave. Moderating conversations and keeping shit from being flung is fine. Modding to some unique and non-followed set of standards is bullshit. That's all I'm saying.

Max Payne · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
Which I would not have a problem with if the Mods upheld the SAME standards they are holding the members to. It's one thing if someone WAS being uncivil, and yet another for constant, unwarranted 'warnings' in the thread. The first page is nothing but the mods behaving EXACTLY the way they are trying to prevent. Look at Dacons response to Q's question. Look at the 'tones' of the warnings they gave. Moderating conversations and keeping shit from being flung is fine. Modding to some unique and non-followed set of standards is bullshit. That's all I'm saying.

Herp derp. 1, we still hadn't started enforcing any of the rules yet because people were still unclear on the standards, 2, the post you are referring to was CLEARLY a joke, and nowhere else was I or any other staff member "uncivil".

Ⓐaron · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
Which I would not have a problem with if the Mods upheld the SAME standards they are holding the members to. It's one thing if someone WAS being uncivil, and yet another for constant, unwarranted 'warnings' in the thread. The first page is nothing but the mods behaving EXACTLY the way they are trying to prevent. Look at Dacons response to Q's question. Look at the 'tones' of the warnings they gave. Moderating conversations and keeping shit from being flung is fine. Modding to some unique and non-followed set of standards is bullshit. That's all I'm saying.

Why the hell do mods have any responsibility to uphold a standard of civility about rule-breaking when the members have been repeatedly violating even the forum's basic rules? Being civil got us ignored, not to mention directly flamed in many cases.

Fairheartstrife · May 22, 2011

John Marston said:
That makes no sense. The moderators never condemned "a tone of civility".

I was implying your 'tone' was in direct contrast to the tone of civility you wished the thread to carry.

The standards have been enforced on the thread because of the previous cluster fuck the thread had become. The "tread" is going to be more heavily moderated to keep the discussion from falling to the same level of nonsense.

Fine. But moderate it with consistency and a constant standard--that YOU (all the mods, not just you singularly) must also follow.

I have everything against people manufacturing double standards to justify their butthurt.

Seriosly? This is your civil response to a member bringing up issue and concern with the new moderation in the thread? Yes, Dacon, calling me butthurt in an open thread is surely setting a good example. **slow clap**

Fairheartstrife · May 22, 2011

Captain America said:
Why the hell do mods have any responsibility to uphold a standard of civility about rule-breaking when the members have been repeatedly violating even the forum's basic rules? Being civil got us ignored, not to mention directly flamed in many cases.

Okay, so it IS "do as I say, not as I do." Got it. Thanks for clearing this up for me.

Tennyo · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
Which I would not have a problem with if the Mods upheld the SAME standards they are holding the members to. It's one thing if someone WAS being uncivil, and yet another for constant, unwarranted 'warnings' in the thread. The first page is nothing but the mods behaving EXACTLY the way they are trying to prevent. Look at Dacons response to Q's question. Look at the 'tones' of the warnings they gave. Moderating conversations and keeping shit from being flung is fine. Modding to some unique and non-followed set of standards is bullshit. That's all I'm saying.

We have tried it the way you are claiming we need to in the past and it didn't work. If people could reign themselves in in that thread then things wouldn't have to be this way.

Like I said, things have to be this way, otherwise the thread would just spiral out of control like it has a million times before.

Cat Rage Room · May 22, 2011

why cant common sense prevail

why cant common sense ever prevail

Max Payne · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
I was implying your 'tone' was in direct contrast to the tone of civility you wished the thread to carry.

I am a mod, I was laying out rules, mostly in a comedic fashion. That's not applicable to the debate, especially when it hadn't even started. You're deliberately taking things out of context to suit your purpose.

Fine. But moderate it with consistency and a constant standard--that YOU (all the mods, not just you singularly) must also follow.

And we are. I even went so far as to confront ryu on behalf of members who thought he was out of line.

Seriosly? This is your civil response to a member bringing up issue and concern with the new moderation in the thread? Yes, Dacon, calling me butthurt in an open thread is surely setting a good example. **slow clap**

You really fail at reading comprehension don't you? The LTD thread has its own specific standards that will be enforced more strictly than the rest of the board. IT SAYS THAT IN THE THREAD.

Get over it.

Cookie Monster · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
You mean the one threatening the members with the hammer of God in a tone of civility that the moderators are condemning? Yeah, I read it.

I agree that direct insults and uncalled for attacks should be moderated. I also think the tread should have the same standards as the rest of the forum. Feel free to go read the posts and decide for yourself if the tone was 'uncivil' enough to call for reprimand.

I have nothing against moderation. Everything against a double standard.

We used to moderate the thread with the same standards as the rest of the forum, and you guys proved you couldn't handle it. The LTD has repeatedly turned into a cesspit of shit several times before. And, we actually considered deleting the LTD permanently, but we didn't. We reopened the thread in the members' favor. However, we added our own stipulations, and as of right now, those are non-negotiable.

In other words, deal with it.

Ⓐaron · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
Okay, so it IS "do as I say, not as I do." Got it. Thanks for clearing this up for me.

I told you. We tried being civil with people who break the rules. It was called every previous incarnation of the LTD thread. It did not work. People not only continued breaking the rules but directly flamed the staff for enforcing them. It sucks that it had to disintegrate to this level, but we tried literally everything else.

The Twilight Mexican · May 22, 2011

I just want to add that I don't think Dacon was out of line at all. He didn't even address anyone directly, but, for the record, FHS, I'm in agreement with him that the "Well, gosh-oh-golly-gee" thing was clearly mocking EurAsianGirl.

And, yeah, there might be stricter standards at work for that thread right now if even the hint of the same old crap that's always gone on in there starts to creep up, but can you really blame us?

Max Payne · May 22, 2011

Hell, if anything I've given people a lot more leeway than we said we would. I could have easily banned you, instead of letting you try and dispute this, and never given it a second thought.

But I didn't want to just go to straight banning.

Ryushikaze · May 22, 2011

Previous incarnations of the thread have always resulted in several members deciding to ruin the experience for everyone. In response to this, the rules for that single thread have been made far stricter, perhaps too strict. I myself have issue with the exact level, but stricter rules were needed. If this ruins the thread, don't blame staff, blame the people who kept ruining the thread.

Fairheartstrife · May 22, 2011

John Marston said:
I am a mod, I was laying out rules, mostly in a comedic fashion. That's not applicable to the debate, especially when it hadn't even started. You're deliberately taking things out of context to suit your purpose.

And we are. I even went so far as to confront ryu on behalf of members who thought he was out of line.

You really fail at reading comprehension don't you? The LTD thread has its own specific standards that will be enforced more strictly than the rest of the board. IT SAYS THAT IN THE THREAD.

Get over it.

Okay, fine. The LTD has it's own set of standards. Got it.

However, TLS has rules about directly insulting members. This is twice, dude, that you've given insult my intelligence. THIS is the shit I mean. You have standards in the LTD thread that are enforced when the 'tone' goes up a notch, but anywhere else, you're free to call me a butt-hurt fabricator with no reading comprehension that needs to 'get over it' because you say so. It's hypocrisy and bullshit.

I voiced my opinion on the matter and you have addressed it in a fashion best suited to you. **tips hat**

People wanna hold the LTD thread to a higher standard in terms of discussion, fine. I can understand why, even if I don't agree with the way it's being handled.

Max Payne · May 22, 2011

Fairheartstrife said:
Okay, fine. The LTD has it's own set of standards. Got it

Apparently you don't. Your following paragraph specifically states that you don't.

However, TLS has rules about directly insulting members. This is twice, dude, that you've given insult my intelligence. THIS is the shit I mean. You have standards in the LTD thread that are enforced when the 'tone' goes up a notch, but anywhere else, you're free to call me a butt-hurt fabricator with no reading comprehension that needs to 'get over it' because you say so. It's hypocrisy and bullshit.

So much for understanding. The LTD has stricter rules than the rest of the board.

I voiced my opinion on the matter and you have addressed it in a fashion best suited to you. **tips hat**

You took issue with me doing my prescribed job in that thread, and then you mocked me for it. We're not restricted by those standards outside that thread, why the hell would I show you respect when you've shown me none?

Mod dispute over LTD

[no fucks given]

Banned

[no fucks given]

Banned

NOM NOM NOM

[no fucks given]

Higher Further Faster

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.

I KEEP MY IDEALS

Banned

[no fucks given]

Banned

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.

[no fucks given]

[no fucks given]

Higher Further Faster

Great Old One

Banned

NOM NOM NOM

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.

Ex-SeeD-ingly good

Banned

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE

[no fucks given]

Banned