4Kids

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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#26
I bought the uncut DVDs of YGO when they came out. I truly was giving 4Kids a chance, and I was actually extremely pleased and impressed at how 4Kids seemed to be getting on the "quality anime distributor" boat and offering DVDs that not only had their shitty dub, but also the original uncut episodes and Japanese dialogue. The translations weren't the best but they were good enough to be enjoyed, and I was ready to support them and buy them.

Then they stopped and said they weren't going to release uncut dvds anymore.

They made the choice to spit in the face of anime consumers and not offer a quality product. They made the choice to not do what any self respecting anime distributor does in terms of releasing an anime dvd, and have dual audio and subs. They seem to believe that they don't have to play by the rules and offer a product that's at the level of their competitors so if they want to delude themselves, that's cool. But they have no one to blame but themselves now that their stock is shit, they're having to lay off 15% of their staff, and I'm downloading all of the episodes for free from fan subers who are doing a better job than their own paid staff.

It's not capitalism, its just common fucking business sense.
 
#28
Good quality products is in the eye of the beholder.
I could find dozens of people right now who would also gladly wish for Funimation to go out of business. Why? Because dubs are the devil and Japanese anime should only be done in Japanese. Any English dub is shit and an insult for them.

Then there are the people who argue most anime are abominations. Manga is their original pure form and what the creator wanted.

Discerning taste is just one way of saying "nya nya my opinion is better tan yours!" when all our opinions are, in the end, irrelevant.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
#29
Why would anyone buy a product they know they won't be satisfied with? That's absurd.

Objectively, an animé dub that does not include the original audio track and subtitles is an inferior product, as is a censored animé. It has nothing to do with "taste," it's just common fucking sense.
 
#30
Common sense is subjective too, friend.
If the person has no interest whatsoever to look at subtitles or listen to the original audio, they don't care if it's not included.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#31
Funimation doesn't make you sit through their bad dubbing. If you want to hear the original Japanese, they'll let you. They won't remove all traces of Japanese culture from their product and make it some hollow, westernized piece of shit. I don't like the dub of Dragonball all that much, but Funimation is okay in my book because if I don't want to hear it, I can hit a button and read the subs.

4Kids doesn't even let you do that. It's either their way, or no way. They even change the damn openings to some bizarre, hip-hop or stupid rock song that sounds like it was done by some crazy bastards who were high at a cheap anime convention.

So no, it's not about opinion. Its about offering a shitty product that is inferior to others on the market. People want their anime to be anime, not gutted and hollowed out forms of the original franchises. Fans want choice. If a dub is bad, that's too bad. But people at least can take comfort in knowing the original dialogue is just a click away. Not with 4Kids though.
 

Ⓐaron

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The Man, V
#32
Common sense is subjective too, friend.
If the person has no interest whatsoever to look at subtitles or listen to the original audio, they don't care if it's not included.
Then they don't care. But I do care, and I'm not fucking buying that shit, nor is there any reason I should be forced to shell out for a product I know I'm not going to enjoy. Your reasoning doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. You're denouncing people for having a preference, and basing their decisions as a consumer on that presence. That's the way any marketplace works, not just capitalism. It works the same in a centrally planned socialist economy. If people don't like a product, they don't buy it. It has nothing to do with capitalism. It's common sense, and there's nothing "subjective" about it. Why should anyone shell out hard-earned cash for a product they know they're going to detest? The very proposition is absurd.

Also, since you mentioned Funimation I just have to say I think Funimation is a pretty cool guy. eh has power level of OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAND and doesn't afraid of anything.
 
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#34
Funimation doesn't make you sit through their bad dubbing. If you want to hear the original Japanese, they'll let you. They won't remove all traces of Japanese culture from their product and make it some hollow, westernized piece of shit. I don't like the dub of Dragonball all that much, but Funimation is okay in my book because if I don't want to hear it, I can hit a button and read the subs.
4Kids isn't making you sit through it either. You don't have to buy the DVD.

4Kids doesn't even let you do that. It's either their way, or no way. They even change the damn openings to some bizarre, hip-hop or stupid rock song that sounds like it was done by some crazy bastards who were high at a cheap anime convention.
Their way or no way? You want me to find you a site with original audio Yugioh episodes for free online? How about a couple torrents giving you the exact same for free?
There's plenty of ways. This isn't the 90s.

And the crappy J-Rock openings of Yu-Gi-Oh are preferable? lol

As for 4Kids openings...


There is of course the classic first opening but also the Johto Championship (4th) opening. They're all pretty good, though.

Then they don't care. But I do care, and I'm not fucking buying that shit, nor is there any reason I should be forced to shell out for a product I know I'm not going to enjoy. Your reasoning doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. You're denouncing people for having a preference, and basing their decisions as a consumer on that presence. That's the way any marketplace works, not just capitalism.
Your preference is your own business. Your wishing for thousands of people to lose their job based on your preference is what I'm denouncing.
Your preference is not all that matters.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
#35
Your preference is your own business. Your wishing for thousands of people to lose their job based on your preference is what I'm denouncing.
Your preference is not all that matters.
Your inference that because I have no desire to buy their inferior product I want them to go out of business is absurd. Ideally they would change their behaviour due to the fact that they would hopefully be able to see that their ruination of the original product was negatively affecting sales, but if they don't change their behaviour then they can continue offering an inferior product, and I can continue not buying it.

"Thousands of people losing their jobs" shouldn't be a world-ending phenomenon either, but the fact that it actually does have a negative effect is a fault of our economic system, not the fault of the company's shitty handling of its own product. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with the marketplace, it has everything to do with the lack of regulation over the marketplace and the lack of our government giving a shit about poor/unemployed people.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#36
That's stupid. If I want to see the anime legally, then yes. I do have to buy their dvds. But you're right. There are other avenues. Avenues that allow me to see the anime with quality, and without putting money in their pockets to support their substandard business. So I guess it works out. They're suffering the consequences of people not buying their product through them and getting it for free from fansubbers or buying it directly from Japan. I don't need 4Kids or the CW Network to watch YGO 5Ds or YGO GX. I can watch it for free online or through fansubbers who know what they're doing and translating. Yes, thank goodness it isn't the nineties. :monster:

And yeah, j-rock/j-pop is much better than listening to a hack performer do a shitty rap song about pirates. I'm sure plenty of anime fans would agree.
 
#37
Your inference that because I have no desire to buy their inferior product I want them to go out of business is absurd.
I mad eno such inference. I'm referring to Seto's posts on the first page clearly saying he wanted that.
If I accused you of wanting them to go out of business, I'm sorry

And yeah, j-rock/j-pop is much better than listening to a hack performer do a shitty rap song about pirates. I'm sure plenty of anime fans would agree.
I agree, too. But as I said from the start I didn't care about One Piece. I like their openings for other shows.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#38
I too said that I'd want them to either improve their business or either fold. There's no reason at all for them to be entitled to remain in business while offering a shitty project. They can either improve their distribution and gain consumer confidence and profit, or be stubborn and then fail. It's their choice. We do NOT have to buy their crap.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
#39
He didn't say that he wants them to go out of business either. He said that if they continue to make an inferior product, then they deserve to go out of business, which I agree with. Ideally they would improve their business decisions and not go out of business.
 
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
#40
You know I would love to pick every one of your arguments apart but I won't for two reasons.

1. The main anime I cared about, One Piece, is no longer owned by 4Kids. Thank you god or whoever.
2. I don't believe they're dubbing anime anymore except the stuff they all ready have. So as long as they don't touch anime, I don't have a problem with them.

But... yeah, Nikkolas, give it up, seriously, you can't win. 4Kids is full of crap and that's all there is to it. After they butchered OP, it wasn't even OP anymore. I dunno WTF it was but... sure as hell wasn't OP.
 
#41
Uh-huh.....

I hope they go out of business, to be honest.
I guess I just totally misinterpreted that. I'm sorry.

Sarcasm aside, I don't hope anyone goes out of business even if I don't like or buy their product. Because I think that's horribly selfish. I don't like the food at some places but other people do like their food so they're welcome to continue buying it. Same for 4Kids.
 
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
#42
I remember a long time ago on an OP forum I said I wished 4Kids went out of business and they all got pissy about it. Then two years later someone said the same thing and they were all "HELL YEAH!"

WTF is up with that?
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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The Man, V
#43
Uh-huh.....



I guess I just totally misinterpreted that. I'm sorry.

Sarcasm aside, I don't hope anyone goes out of business even if I don't like or buy their product. Because I think that's horribly selfish. I don't like the food at some places but other people do like their food so they're welcome to continue buying it. Same for 4Kids.
He clarified his stance later to indicate that he only hopes they go out of business if they don't stop making shitty dubs with censorship and no Japanese audio track. I don't see the big deal.
 
#44
He clarified his stance later to indicate that he only hopes they go out of business if they don't stop making shitty dubs with censorship and no Japanese audio track. I don't see the big deal.
That's fine then. I missed that.

Also Quex, I just don't abandon my opinion because some people on the internet don't agree with it. Fact is you all ay share a devout hatred of 4Kids but there are plenty of people who do like them or at leas tparts of them. I've seen many diehard 4Piece haters say they preferred their Zoro to Funi's.

But regardless, it's really hot here and I think we've really gone over everything.
Plus Stanley Cup Game 6 coming up. Woot.

I had a good time, though. I like arguing for some reason.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
#45
Agreed. The Japanese Anime was brutal, lol. Jounochi wasn't a retard, and neither was Tristan. I see they've kept Anzu's whoriness in tact at least. :awesome: Just kidding, but she's all "OMG FRIENDSHIP SPEECHES!11" and nothing like the self centered twat she really is. *breathes*
Hey! That's not fair! Everyone's a self centered twat. Give them all the credit they deserve.

Don't get me started on how they killed Yami Bakura! Licking blood off the Millenium Eye is epic. Unless I skipped an episode, they took that shit out.

I'm not entirely opposed to the dub though, it's cute and funny. It reminds me of Digimon with the bad puns and the cutesy moments. There's no denying that they slaughtered what it really is though.
They took out the entire first season.

Yeah, look at what happened in Tokyo Mew Mew. They changed Ichigo to Zoey. >_>
I'd cite worse, but I CnBA to even care to comprehend the existence of a 4kids MewMew after I heard the synopsis retread.

Exactly. Which completely kills the tone of the anime even more. Villains weren't afraid of killing and brutally hurting their opponents in the anime. What 4Kids did was make the game ridiculously light hearted to the point that it shattered a person's suspension of disbelief.
Granted, the show itself did that itself in other ways, but 4kids made it worse.

There's a difference between the villain trying to sadistically kill you and torture you by sending their thugs after you, and the villain sending their thugs after you to send your mind to the "shadow realm" by a "dark energy disc" that somehow looks like a blurred out buzz saw.
And I always thought 'the shadow realm' meant the afterlife anyways. Same with 'other dimension'.

The Shadow Realm never even fucking existed. That's some bizarre concept they gave us.
Not even a concept, really. It never had any definable properties, AFAICR.

And I'll never forgive them calling "Osiris"...Slifer. Talk about being an egotistical prick.
Slifer, no slifing! Slifer no slifing! Slifer no slifing!

Funimation doesn't make you sit through their bad dubbing. If you want to hear the original Japanese, they'll let you. They won't remove all traces of Japanese culture from their product and make it some hollow, westernized piece of shit.
Except the Shin Chan dub, but that's the exception, and actually rather well done. A shame they single languaged that one, but ah well.

I don't like the dub of Dragonball all that much, but Funimation is okay in my book because if I don't want to hear it, I can hit a button and read the subs.
I feel the same about their other shows, a la Detective Conan. I do hate the name changes. Of course, ironically, one of the shows they did the least to, Fruits Basket, a lot of people genuinely prefer the dub of. Main character's voice stops hurting them, natch.

4Kids doesn't even let you do that. It's either their way, or no way. They even change the damn openings to some bizarre, hip-hop or stupid rock song that sounds like it was done by some crazy bastards who were high at a cheap anime convention.
Cat's out of the bag.

So no, it's not about opinion. Its about offering a shitty product that is inferior to others on the market. People want their anime to be anime, not gutted and hollowed out forms of the original franchises. Fans want choice. If a dub is bad, that's too bad. But people at least can take comfort in knowing the original dialogue is just a click away. Not with 4Kids though.
To say nothing of the overt, idiotic, and shittily done visual edits.
 
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
#46
Also Quex, I just don't abandon my opinion because some people on the internet don't agree with it. Fact is you all ay share a devout hatred of 4Kids but there are plenty of people who do like them or at leas tparts of them. I've seen many diehard 4Piece haters say they preferred their Zoro to Funi's.
I'm one of them :P
I like them both really and I've grown used to Funi's Zoro but the 4Kids Zoro ... he was the best of the bunch IMO.

But regardless, it's really hot here and I think we've really gone over everything.
Plus Stanley Cup Game 6 coming up. Woot.
Who do you want to win? This will determine whether or not I like you.
 
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
#48
Luffy in most OP fansubs: I WILL USE MY HAKI TO PROTECT MY NAKAMA!

yeah ... totally makes sense.
 
#49
Who do you want to win? This will determine whether or not I like you.
Penguins. I was raised in Detroit so I love me some Wings but I'm cheering for the Pens for two main reasons.
1. The Wings won last year. They make it to the playoffs all the time and they are simply -the- team. It does get old after a bit for me as a hockey fan.
2. Penguins have Malkin and Crosby; the future of the NHL. I agree Crosby ccould be the next Gretzky or Lemieux and like Mario, he canlead the Penguins to their first Cup in decades. Well almost two decades.

P.S.
Let's go Pens on Friday!

They took out the entire first season.
Thank God.
 
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Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#50
Luffy in most OP fansubs: I WILL USE MY HAKI TO PROTECT MY NAKAMA!

yeah ... totally makes sense.
I fucking hate that.

English, motherfuckers. You're supposed to be translating into English. The only reason fans start to know and get used to these words is because lazy bastards don't bother translating them.

[/side track] :monster:
 
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