A Dry Spicy Take Regarding AC.

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
#51
Sure, though only in the sense that animation can more readily literalize a storyboard and concept art. If anything, it makes it easier.
 

looneymoon

hedgehog pandacat
AKA
Rishi
#52
I'm not sure why you'd say that - animation editors have a more dynamic role in storyboarding/pre-production as well as what happens in post. Saying that makes editing "easier" is still considering the role as if it were in a live action pipeline - that it's mainly relegated to the cutting phase that happens in post-production. This is not the case. The point of the post I was making is that you're essentially comparing two different jobs if you take a look at something like Advent Children to Bohemian Rhapsody or Legends of the Fall.

Here's a video that breaks it down:

 

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
#53
This is a fantastic video. It's what I was saying about them being able to "literalize a storyboard", but I see I should not have used the word "easier" at all. It's clear the editor is far more closely involved than I had thought. And I still think the editing of Advent Children is quite good. Maybe even more impressive now that I have more of an understanding of the process in animation.
 
#54
I have some issues with the cut of ACC, I feel like it made previously implicit things explicit, and therefore blunter and less effective. But in regard to the other things:

The rerun of Red running is just saying 'hey, relax, this still happens, we didn't undo the ending of FF7.' It links to the following scene because the conversation is about rebuilding and ruins.

]

Context for someone with foreknowledge:

Rebuilding City- Okay, they're rebuilding, probably after Meteorfall.

Northern Cave-final dungeon. The Turks are looking for something in the Northern Cave, where we last saw Jenova and Sephiroth. That's bad. Something else is looking too. Also bad.

Re Bartender answering phone. She answers in the name of 'Strife delivery service.', and before she answers, says 'he's not here anymore.'

So, what do we know from those vignettes?

The Turks are looking for something in the North Cave, along with an unidentified third party.

Cloud was living with Tifa in a new bar, running a business together, but is no longer there. Someone has called looking for him. They took in a (sick) kid together.

That's a hell of a lot of storytelling in a very short time.

About later, the tension with Cloud and Tifa isn't really about whether he goes after the kids or not, it's about whether he'll successfully save them or not.

Context for non FF viewer:

Someone with access to helicopters (powerful?) is looking for something important at a remote location. There's a fight. They have to flee in a hurry. Helicopter people have important thing? Or was it left behind?

We go from a ruined city, to a rebuilding city, and a conversation about rebuilding after catastrophe, and 'short memories.' after just showing that the city is remembered 500 years later.This is the weakest part of the opening, though.

The bar gets a call looking for someone who was once there, but isn't now. A sick child and a little girl also live there. We get glimpses of their
So...broken relationship? Strained? Some kind of catastrophe happened two years ago, everyone is still rebuilding and recovering.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#55
i have been reading a book based on joseph campbell's 'a hero with a thousand faces'/hero's journey ('the writer's journey' by christopher vogler), or rereading because someone gave me a newer edition than the one i own, and it made me wonder how you would map advent children onto it as an excuse to put it into practice instead of just reading it

Act One:
Ordinary World
Call to Adventure
Refusal of the Call
Meeting with the Mentor
Crossing the First Threshold

Act Two:
Tests, Allies, Enemies
Approach to the Inmost Cave
Ordeal
Reward

Act Three:
The Road Back
Resurrection
Return with the Elixir


1. Heroes are introduced in the ORDINARY WORLD, where
2. they receive the CALL TO ADVENTURE.
3. They are RELUCTANT at first or REFUSE THE CALL, but
4. are encouraged by a MENTOR to
5. CROSS THE FIRST THRESHOLD and enter the Special World, where
6. they encounter TESTS, ALLIES, AND ENEMIES.
7. They APPROACH THE INMOST CAVE, crossing a second threshold
8. where they endure the ORDEAL.
9. They take possession of their REWARD and
10. are pursued on THE ROAD BACK to the Ordinary World.
11. They cross the third threshold, experience a RESURRECTION, and are transformed by the experience.
12. They RETURN WITH THE ELIXIR, a boon or treasure to benefit the Ordinary World.


i have not watched ac in a while so going off memory, i would roughly map it something like this?


1 - ordinary world
cloud's isolating himself from everyone out of guilt

2 - call to adventure
first appearance of kadaj, and meeting rufus

3 - refusual of the call
cloud turns down rufus' request

4 - meeting with the mentor
the conversation with tifa and aerith???

5 - crossing the first threshold
cloud going to the forgotten city to save the children

6 - tests, allies, and enemies
turks, tifa, aerith, battle with kadaj and co, rescue by vincent?

7 - approach the inmost cave
forgotten city battle and conversation with vincent? battle(s) in edge?

8 - ordeal
the whole sequence from the bahamut battle to the sephiroth battle?

9 - reward
defeating sephiroth and the appearance of the spring in the church?

10 - the road back
final encounter with kadaj, or more precisely yazoo and loz

11 - resurrection
being healed by aerith/zack and sent back

12 - return with the elixir
the spring with water that heals geostigma and more abstractly cloud's resolution of his guilt, everybody happy


one of the things the books mentions is that stories don't have to rigidly follow this structure and can play around by skipping or combining steps (campbell's original has more steps, i believe), spreading roles across multiple characters, etc. some of the steps i'm a bit fuzzy on without having viewed the film again, like would tifa and aerith both fulfil a mentor role in pushing cloud forward towards action and resolving his guilt (namely the scene with tifa in marlene and denzel's room and aerith appearing on the way to the forgotten city)? is there a specific moment that would make the most apt 'inmost cave' scene? i'm tempted to say that cloud's resolution starts at the conversation with vincent about sins being forgiven, but does that peak a bit too early and then the latter half of the film is a protracted series of fight scenes, a holdover from when the project was just a short little action scene to test out fancy new graphics?

anyway this post is an excuse to remind me to finish this book
 
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