According to Yoshinori Kitase, we're all manchildren.

[Max Payne]

Not necessarily. Creators can understand their target demographic mind set without sharing that mind set. That's where marketing research and psychologists come in.
I'm sure Sesame creators are not kids. They just study kids closely to know what they want to see.

Video games go beyond a simple teddy bear or action figure though. Especially RPGs.

Then it just comes down to the fact that these people aren't just making games for a specific audience, they're making games they like to create.

Look at Kingdom Hearts. Is Nomura a manchild for being so invested in his games? Nope. Final Fantasy created it's own demographic, they didn't study the market and make something for a specific set of people. They made a game and it became a critical hit. They've utilized a few things that proved successful for themselves in the past, but ultimately they're still making games they themselves like to play.

 

[Max Payne]

And I'm sure Sesame street's creators are kids at heart. Some of them anyway, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[knit_lace]

Then it just comes down to the fact that these people aren't just making games for a specific audience, they're making games they like to create.

Look at Kingdom Hearts. Is Nomura a manchild for being so invested in his games? Nope. Final Fantasy created it's own demographic, they didn't study the market and make something for a specific set of people. They made a game and it became a critical hit. They've utilized a few things that proved successful for themselves in the past, but ultimately they're still making games they themselves like to play.

Yeah, Nomura may have the same mindset as the gamers,but Yoshi may not. He doesn't have to in order to work for a game company.
And Final Fantasy may be created from what they like when it was a new thing in town, but not when it's now a cash cow franchise. They have fans' expectations to please.

 

[Max Payne]

Tbh, SE's recent fuckups pretty much proves to me that they're not that thorough.

I'm not pleased with anything Kitase has said or done recently either.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yeah, Nomura may have the same mindset as the gamers,but Yoshi may not. He doesn't have to in order to work for a game company.
And Final Fantasy may be created from what they like when it was a new thing in town, but not when it's now a cash cow franchise. They have fans' expectations to please.

It's death for any form of art to believe its own publicity or to second guess what will please its fans. It seems to me that SE are at their worst when they pander to what they think the fans want [the ongoing degeneration, or maybe oversimplification, of Cloud's character is a case in point]. Let the fans create their own fanworks. SE needs to stay true to its vision and make the games that they want, not the games they think we want.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Let the fans create their own fanworks. SE needs to stay true to its vision and make the games that they want, not the games they think we want.

No offense to your viewpoint, but this mentality is exactly why I haven't been interested in any SE games in years.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

But I think they are making games they think fans want, and that's why the games suck. (though Crisis Core was pretty good, of its genre)

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Oh, yeah, I see what you're saying that they're making the games they think fans want, but I certainly don't think they're making the games that fans actually want.

 

[Cthulhu]

Oh, yeah, I see what you're saying that they're making the games they think fans want, but I certainly don't think they're making the games that fans actually want.

imho, a game maker has failed the moment they consider the fans in making their game. Instead, they should focus on making the game good.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

imho, a game maker has failed the moment they consider the fans

They tried that with Spidey 4. Look where it got them

 

[Cat Rage Room]

imho, a game maker has failed the moment they consider the fans in making their game. Instead, they should focus on making the game good.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Look, it's like the old story of the man, his son, and the donkey they were taking to market, which, in case you don't know it, goes something like this.
They meet somebody who asks them why they aren't riding the donkey. So the old man gets on the donkey. Then they meet somebody who asks the old man if he isn't ashamed to ride while his precious son walks. So then he gets off and the kid gets on. Then they meet somebody who asks if the son isn't ashamed to make his father walk in the hot sun. So the boy gets off and dad gets on. And so on. At some point I think they carry the donkey for a while, Eventually, the donkey dies from being overloaded. Moral: please all, and please none.

Fans don't really know what they want, anyway, because what they REALLY want is to be pleasantly and profitably surprised.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

True, but there is such a thing as a collective desire one way or the other. If you don't make a product that fans will like, you won't make money, period. Games like Mass Effect 2 and Assassins Creed 2 are hailed as great games and the companies who make them are praised because they actually LISTEN to the fans (and occasionally, even respond personally to them on their forums) about what they want and don't want, and about what should be fixed for sequels, and so on. They. Listen. To. Their. Fans.

In the above examples, those two games are hailed as some of the best improves in a sequel in any game to date because pretty much EVERYTHING that fans complained about were fixed from one installment to the next. Team Fortress 2 is a multiplayer example that constantly releases updates and even gets some of their ideas DIRECTLY from fans via contests, write ins, and polls.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

OK, I agree with you, mainly because I actually know FA about how to make a video game. It's just that, whenever we have a thread about what should or shouldn't go into the remake, or be the next entry in the Compilation, or whether there should be a next entry at all, nobody in this forum can agree, which is fine - but when the fans can't agree, how can you please them all? Maybe all the Assassin's Creed fans agree; I don't know.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Why don't they just ask them?

 

[Winter]

Too lazy to quote, but people last page were talking about the idea of the SE creators themselves being manchildren; I sort of wish they still were.

I mean, Kitase gets butthurt that people don't like his game, yeah. But that's (at least to me, I honestly don't know for sure) just pride, that's not because he himself genuinely loves it.

I give Tetsuya Nomura a lot of shit for his LEATHER AND BELTS and PRETTY MEN, but it's so nice to see him so emotionally invested in his works; I don't like KH's story, but I think a part of the reason why it's still such a success is because the creator crafts it with care.

I love reading Nomura interviews because he writes his stories and his characters, and he crafts his games with a lot of care. I hate admitting that because of this FF vs. XIII may be better than FFXIII (like I said, I don't really care for Nomura's direction most of the time), but it could well be the case.

I hope that made sense, I'm a little moody and overtired and tried to throw my two cents in here.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

muhfukka