For that matter, the fact that you're analyzing it through a post-game awareness rather than a first-impression awareness is rather unfair -- especially when considering that a post-game awareness of the game includes the knowledge that much of the contents of the flashback was questionable in the first place since it all came from Cloud. To include the post-game awareness of spells like Ultima and Comet but not the post-game awareness that the stats and equipped materia are unreliable to begin with looks too much like trying to find an excuse to bash the guy.
I am not analyzing it through a post-game awareness. Nor do I need an excuse to bash Sephiroth, he gives me plenty of genuine reasons. If they wanted to portray him as incredibly powerful, sticking him with some of the most basic spells in the series was the wrong way to do it. Can you deny that Sephiroth's power would have made a larger first impression if he was casting magic way out of our league as players, rather than magic that was just stronger forms of the spells we already have?
"A corpse or two"? He leaves dozens! He slaughters the personnel of the Shin-Ra building and the cargo ship, and even kills President Shinra!
Here's a list of major things Seph does before the halfway point of the game, since you suggested that Seymour did so much more than him before that mark:
-Slaughters most everyone on several floors of the Shin-Ra building
-Releases AVALANCHE from their prison cells in the building -- all so that he can string them along and torture Cloud
-Murders President Shinra
-Impales a Midgar Zolom
-Butchers more Shin-Ra personnel on the cargo ship
-Attempts to murder Tseng -- and, as far as the player is aware, succeeds
-Forces Cloud to beat the shit out of Aerith, as well as hand over the key to his plan
-Almost forces Cloud to kill Aerith
-Kills Aerith!
Well, I'd say the first three points all count as one, but ok. But this also underlines a big problem with Sephiroth. That is a HUGE, HUGE gap between the Cargo Ship and the Temple of the Ancients. Yes, he murders the people on the Cargo Ship. Then what? Costa de Sol, Corel, Gold Saucer, Cosmo Canyon, Nibelheim, Rocket Town, no word from him except a brief convo at Nibelheim. That isn't an hour or two, that's like, the entire middle part of disk one, he does just squat. I won't count Wutai, it's a subquest so it wouldn't be fair. But for the record, if you choose to do Wutai right after Rocket Town, for the player it's another few hours you're going with no word from Sephiroth.
-Deliberately leaves word of himself in just about every town he passes through so that AVALANCHE can continue to follow him
You assume he does it on purpose, I do not. It's Sephiroth, as you say the guy is a war hero, if he reappears after going awol for five years, people will talk. Besides, it doesn't make sense for him to deliberately lead the party on since he basically leads them on a wild goose chase, ergo he manipulates them just because he can? The only reason I can think of is that he wants them to get the Black Materia for him, but that doesn't work because A-why not lead them directly to the Temple then, and B-as the party points out Sephy could just send one of his clones to get it.
-Reveals his plan to become a god-like being -- a plan which will likely result in the deaths of all other living creatures on the planet
Oh, don't remind me, his messianic speeches started to bore me the second time I heard them. "I am the chosen one! L. Ron says I shall be the savior of the planet! Mother and I shall destroy the dark galactic overlord! Hail Jenova!"
-Has absolutely no trouble knocking you on your ass and departing whenever you are in his presence, continuing the chase; also, leaves a boss for you on two occasions when he does this, while on another, he gives you a really good materia -- which really goes to show how seriously little he was worried about fighting the team
Well, the second part is a matter of opinion, I never used the Destruct Materia.
His entire demeanor is one of mockery towards the party. He obviously has no fear of releasing them from a prison cell, of letting them know where he's going, of giving them a useful materia, of letting them have the key to his plan, of letting them know he was going after Aerith, of letting them know his plan in the first place, etc.
For that matter, how is everything he says to Cloud from the Temple of the Ancients onward (conversations in the temple, in the pit where the temple was, in Cloud's dream afterward, at the City of the Ancients, and at the crater prior to casting Meteor) not mocking or taunting Cloud
Well, let's look. *calls up game script*
Cargo Ship - asks Cloud who he is, says "the time is now" and runs off.
Nibelheim - asks Cloud if he's going to come to the Reunion, then says he's not got the right and tells him to follow him past Mt. Nibel to find out.
TotA - tells the party about how he plans to call Meteor and absorb the lifestream. No mocking or taunting involved.
Now, once the temple is destroyed, THEN he manipulates Cloud and starts mentally attacking him to get the Black Materia. Up until then, Sephiroth just isn't interested in them. Once he has a reason to he starts the manipulations, up until then he doesn't care.
Hell, what about what he made Cloud do -- and almost do -- to Aerith, even knowing that she was trying to cast Holy? If anything, he was too preoccupied with taunting the party. He was so busy dicking around with Cloud instead of getting business done that Aerith was able to cast Holy.
That yes, I'll give you that.
Everything he says at the temple, in the Ancients' city, and at the Northern Crater doesn't? Most of his dialogue involves taunting or torturing Cloud.
Actually up to the Temple he spends more time going on about his plan to become a god than he does taunting Cloud.
Then why was he deliberately leaving a trail for them to follow? Why did he wait around in Nibelheim to "chuck a materia at Cloud's nuts," as you put it?
Again, what deliberate trail was there? I played FF7 entirely open-minded (really, I expected it to suck and be overhyped, and while it was the latter I actually really enjoyed it) and never saw Sephy leaving a trail for me to follow. Rather I saw the party just wander the planet looking for him, and on one or two occasions he'd appear and run off.
And, for that matter, didn't you say he didn't do anything
but taunt them in
this post? I have no idea what your position even is at this point beyond an irrational hatred of Sephiroth.
I didn't mean it literally. And no, it is not irrational. You people assume I hate him for the sake of hating him. I have my reasons.
While we're discussing the facts, by the way, how did you rationalize describing Ultimecia as a villain who doesn't do anything back when this thread first started?:
Ultimecia I file away with Zemus as "don't buy this asspull." I consider Golbez and Edea the real villains. Yes I know, they were being controlled, Zemus and Ultimecia were the ones behind it all. I acknowledge my opinion goes against the facts. Don't care - Golbez and Edea were the villains, Zemus and Ultimecia were asspulls. Really, the plots of the two games could have worked much better without them. FF8's plot would have greatly improved without the time travel nonsense.
Also, now to prove Shinra was more evil than Sephiroth. Let's relist Sephy's evil deeds.
-Slaughters most everyone on several floors of the Shin-Ra building
-Releases AVALANCHE from their prison cells in the building -- all so that he can string them along and torture Cloud
-Murders President Shinra
-Impales a Midgar Zolom
-Butchers more Shin-Ra personnel on the cargo ship
-Attempts to murder Tseng -- and, as far as the player is aware, succeeds
-Forces Cloud to beat the shit out of Aerith, as well as hand over the key to his plan
-Almost forces Cloud to kill Aerith
-Kills Aerith!
Now Shinra. Let's start right at the time Sephiroth comes into the picture to be fair, so they'll be graded within the same time frame.
-Rufus' big intro, the party fights to escape Shinra HQ and leave Midgar.
-Junon, party is told by the townspeople how Shinra has ruined the town
-Sneaking aboard the Cargo Ship
-Corel, another sob story about Shinra ruining the town
-Gongaga, brief scuffle
-Nibelheim, Vincent's story about Hojo
-Rocket Town, Cid's sob story about Shinra.
-Gold Saucer, Cait Sith hands the Shinra the keystone and reveals he's kidnapped Marlene
-Optional: Wutai and Fort Condor, more sob stories.
So within the same time frame from Sephiroth's intro, though admittedly they don't carry as much magnitude, the Shinra perform just as many evil acts as Sephy does, many of them being stories from the NPCs about how Shinra has ruined their lives and destroyed their town. And that's not including the acts from before and after Sephy's entrance, like kidnapping Aeris, dropping the Sector 7 plate, attempting to execute the party on national TV, and the Huge Materia quests.
This is why I consider the Shinra the true villains, everywhere you go for Disk 1 you hear tales about the destruction and poverty they've spread across the planet as they expand their empire. To me, they were built up as a much more serious threat to the planet. Up until the TotA we're not given any real indication of what it is Sephiroth wants to do and why he's a threat, Shinra we're told how horrible and power-hungry they are every damn town.
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