Can we update the LTD article? (Shipping-Related Issues Thread)

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
^

Another problem is when people say that we can't see our mistakes and think everyone else is dumb. :monster:

yeah, dumb people exist and there are lots of them. I know. But they're not my target audience.
 
Another problem is when people say that we can't see our mistakes and think everyone else is dumb. :monster:
Agreed. The more humble we are, while still staying true to ourselves and the arguments we make, the more respect we will gain from a wider community. For this reason I support the idea of a response article. :salute:
 

Vendel

Banned
So how exactly are you going to start this response?


"Hello internet. Over two and a half years ago TLS released a translation article. And since then there has been endless wailing and gnashing of teeth and countless essays all to discredit a couple sentences on one page from one ultimania. Here we would like to address these lamentations."
?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Surprisingly, I have to agree with Vendel here.

There isn't any new information here. Like, seriously.

I talked to Glen about this, and he finds this all pretty damn silly. He'll respond this weekend personally regarding the whole Locke/Celes thing, but from what he saw and read. It doesn't change a damn thing. A response article over something so minimal to the argument itself is beyond silly. Not to mention points 2 and 3 are the two most empty strawmen arguments used to discredit the clear implications of all the contextual evidence regarding Cloud and Tifa that's been shown in the Compilation and interviews from the creators. That's been broken down several times already.

Just...this is really old. Old, and just done. There's nothing new to even get into. But Glen's the expert here and I'll let him fully break it down since it's his article and he has the actual book in front of him :monster:
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
So how exactly are you going to start this response?


"Hello internet. Over two and a half years ago TLS released a translation article. And since then there has been endless wailing and gnashing of teeth and countless essays all to discredit a couple sentences on one page from one ultimania. Here we would like to address these lamentations."
?

It's been more that two years since TLS released its analysis of the FFVII Love Triangle. As expected, this article has been met with numerous criticisms which resulted into a series of passionate debates that rage on until now here and in many sites in the internet as well.

Though the authors and translators of the articles had repeatedly defended their analysis, a lot of these is not easily accessible to the wider audience who are not part of the forum. Because of this, some members of TLS decided to write a complementary article that aims to defend the earlier work of its writers and to summarize the lengthily debate that followed.



Is that bad?

I'm doing this not because I want to please shippers but because I really care about the image of the site. I haven't even been here for a year but I really got attached to it, so when others tell their horrible experiences here because they disagree with the LTD article, I feel the need for reconciliation. I don't think everyone who disagrees with the article is dumb, that's a fallacy by itself.

And to think of it, I actually became a member of TLS because I loved Ryu's (and Tres' )article so much and wanted to defend it in the debates in the forums. After years of forum hopping that article answered my long sought answer of the LTD, I have a high regard of its credibility that's being continually attacked.

It's not about saying that the article has grown weak, like Shademp said, it's about humility and openness to other ideas and perspectives. When this plan is set into action and there's still mindless backlash it makes them look bad. It doesn't make us desperate in proving ourselves, it actually makes others look desperate for disagreeing with facts.

If you don't want to waste your time and effort with this its no issue because Quex and I will do it anyway(though I still don't believe in myself).
 
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I am not going to edit the original article. End of.

As I said in the original article itself, the whole thing had been in its death throes, and this page merely represented a simple swift blow to end it. Apparently the mercy kill didn't take.

The article itself is completely valid, and nothing brought up on p232 changes the facts presented or the conclusions re: C/T, since the U20 is merely telling us in plain terms that feelings are romantic.

It is not required to tell us that the high highwind is the 'canon version.'
Tifa's crisis core profile, which tells us Cloud and Tifa confirmed their feelings for each other does that fine.

Also, there is one new piece of evidence, but it's not against C/T. It's anti C/A and pro Z/A.

In any case, I will write a follow up, but I will be kicked in the nuts before I will edit the facts or my editorial to appease others.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
I'm going to write an article about Cloud/Mukki and it will be the best article ever just you wait and see. CANON FOREVER
 

Vendel

Banned
I'm doing this not because I want to please shippers but because I really care about the image of the site. I haven't even been here for a year but I really got attached to it, so when others tell their horrible experiences here because they disagree with the LTD article, I feel the need for reconciliation. I don't think everyone who disagrees with the article is dumb, that's a fallacy by itself.

And to think of it, I actually became a member of TLS because I loved Ryu's article so much and wanted to defend it in the debates in the forums. After years of forum hopping that article answered my long sought answer of the LTD, I have a high regard of its credibility that's being continually attacked.

It's not about saying that the article has grown weak, like Shademp said, it's about humility and openness to other ideas and perspectives. When this plan is set into action and there's still mindless backlash it makes them look bad. It doesn't make us desperate in proving ourselves, it actually makes others look desperate for disagreeing with facts.

If you don't want to waste your time and effort with this its no issue because Quex and I will do it anyway(though I still don't believe in myself).


I can understand wanting to make a companion piece to address concerns, or to spruce up the image of the site.

I just think it is unnecessary and ultimately a fruitless effort. It will just be another thing for people to rage about years after the fact.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Actually... I'd really REALLY like to hear from Glenn on all this. If he's going to reply, I'll wait and see what he says before I do anything.


I still think I'll write an article, but just not neccesarly one that tries to discredit the original article or anything. Just one that addresses the latest arguments.

EDIT
Dacon's got the right idea :monster:
 
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Actually... I'd really REALLY like to hear from Glen on all this. If he's going to reply, I'll wait and see what he says before I do anything.


I still think I'll write an article, but just not neccesarly one that tries to discredit the original article or anything. Just one that addresses the latest arguments.

Good, because you can't. Just not possible. It's got the Ted Koppel seal of not taking itself too seriously.

EDIT
Dacon's got the right idea :monster:

Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
in light of what Tres posted in the LTD thread, I don't think this is necessary anymore... or does someone else still want me to do this? Because I'm not really sure what points I'd be making anymore
 
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Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
^

I think it's still be helpful to translate the defense in the forums to an article. But do what's in your heart. I'll still thinking if I could write something on my own.
 
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