SPOILERS Character Deaths in Future FF7:R (*Open Spoilers*)

[Zee]

The circumstance in which he scared Tifa wasn't related to Sephiroth induced control. Also I'd argue Tifa was sending some pretty mixed signals ...literally saying "we have to catch Johnny he knows our secrets and he's a talker" like girl ofc he's gonna think you want to kill him!!

I'm talking about scenes that were cut like honeybee inn where cloud sees a vision of himself attacking him and he blacks out. Most of his fuzzy brain scenes are either related to Zack memories or Aerith memories and they usually evoke sadness, not violence. ofc we'll have to see what happens in part 2, but the point is if possessed Cloud isn't beating the shit out of Aerith in the temple of the ancients there's no reason for her to leave.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think they did a great job in the Remake of establishing his potential for violence. He has to be reined in on several occassions, and he doesn't know his own strength.

(I like how Tifa keeps telling him to dial it back a little).

 

[Eerie]

But Zee, that's exactly what it is, Cloud can be violent, even outside his fits. So who's to say that once controlled by Sephiroth he can't have a really bad one? They've established that Cloud is kind of numb towards violence, and imho that was on purpose.

 

[argent_angel]

But who's to say that Cloud is not going to be violent? I mean, he already scared Tifa in this first part, I don't expect them to back off from that scene actually. The where might change, although I think that location and how she dies are pretty iconic so...

So far, if the visions are to be t rusted, they're going to recreate it the same way though. I guess we'll see but with them reasserting that we'll have the same beats, I don't expect her death to change.

Consider though that we're seemingly dealing with an Aerith who knows things either in the sense of they have happened or will happen. With all of the new stuff they did in part 1 and the ending we got it would be very strange for them not to capitalize on all of that in some major way going forward. They have to reconcile all of the new stuff with the story now. Remake part 1 gave me the impression that things will change this time and after all that I not only want them to but I expect them to. If things just play out the same as before just a little differently then the new elements in part 1 won't make sense and they may as well have just done a remaster at that point.

 

[Eerie]

Certainly, but Aerith dying is a huge plot point of FFVII, and since they're following the FFVII story, I don't see them deciding against it. Surely, we will know how is Aerith more omniscient this time around, what does she know exactly, etc. Maybe much more, maybe not so much, we just have to wait and see.

But, as much as I love Aerith this time around, she needs to die for the plot to go on. They made that bed 23 years ago.

 

[argent_angel]

Certainly, but Aerith dying is a huge plot point of FFVII, and since they're following the FFVII story, I don't see them deciding against it. Surely, we will know how is Aerith more omniscient this time around, what does she know exactly, etc. Maybe much more, maybe not so much, we just have to wait and see.

But, as much as I love Aerith this time around, she needs to die for the plot to go on. They made that bed 23 years ago.

Are plot ghosts, a giant harbinger whisper, fighting Sephiroth on the highway and "7 seconds 'til the end" a huge plot point in the original ff7? Nope. They're not even in OG7. Then why are they in remake? Also consider the possibility that FF7R could be a sequel to FF7 where AC is not the sequel to remake. They're going to have to reconcile all of the new stuff they're doing to the story going forward.

 

[Eerie]

And yet they say we should expect the same plot as in the OG. They JUST reiterated this, probably because they know what kind of worries the ending would have on fans. So yes, I still say "if this is the OG plot, Aerith needs to die", there's no turning around this.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Now that the whispers are gone, is the voice of the planet silenced? Can Aerith still hear it? If she can't hear it, can she know things the way she knew them before?

 

[ForceStealer]

I don't think there's any way the voice of the planet is silenced. If nothing else that would make her role in the Temple of the Ancients a lot more difficult later.

But I WOULD expect her to lose whatever sense of premonition she had (though she would still remember whatever she knows about already, I would think, but she would think/know that they are no longer set)

 

[Makoeyes987]

Are plot ghosts, a giant harbinger whisper, fighting Sephiroth on the highway and "7 seconds 'til the end" a huge plot point in the original ff7? Nope. They're not even in OG7. Then why are they in remake? Also consider the possibility that FF7R could be a sequel to FF7 where AC is not the sequel to remake. They're going to have to reconcile all of the new stuff they're doing to the story going forward.

Those aren't the same circumstances. One circumstance is subtractive of a key moment that has become a iconic gaming culture moment that is arguably baked into the DNA of FFVII. It's referenced several times in the Remake itself.

The other is additive and a new plot line that is meant to run parallel to the plot that exists and reflects the OG. You can easily include what existed already while exploring new concepts in a remake. The remake includes these new elements because it wishes to be more than a copy. They want to do more with the creative endeavour than simply reproduce what's already been done.

That reconciliation between their new work and their past work is challenge they've chosen to tackle and meet with open arms.

 

[Wol]

And yet they say we should expect the same plot as in the OG. They JUST reiterated this, probably because they know what kind of worries the ending would have on fans. So yes, I still say "if this is the OG plot, Aerith needs to die", there's no turning around this.

Not a big deal, Aerith from Gaia-2 will jump in to replace her.

Because... reasons.

 

[oty]

And Sephiroth from Gaia-2 will come around by the last minute, determined to prove he is the fastest man ali- oh wait wrong universe.

 

[Prism]

Aerith says "everyone has to die at some point" in the first part, which heavily implies that Square is not going to let her off easy. I was initially someone who wished they do give her a way to live (optional route) but I mean...the motivation for that is purely just because of appreciation for her character. It's too vital to the story and message of the game to leave out. Loss is too core of a theme in the game for her to not die (same with Meteor destroying Midgar, I feel like that has to get in)

Square did say that the events of Remake will not be radically different. "Radically different" would mean Aerith surviving.

Now, maybe if there was a (potentially non-canon) New Game+ where she lives? That is still appealing to me in a lot of ways. It fulfills the desire to have a timeline where she lives, but doesn't disrupt the main flow of the story.

 

[argent_angel]

Those aren't the same circumstances. One circumstance is subtractive of a key moment that has become a iconic gaming culture moment that is arguably baked into the DNA of FFVII. It's referenced several times in the Remake itself.

The other is additive and a new plot line that is meant to run parallel to the plot that exists and reflects the OG. You can easily include what existed already while exploring new concepts in a remake. The remake includes these new elements because it wishes to be more than a copy. They want to do more with the creative endeavour than simply reproduce what's already been done.

That reconciliation between their new work and their past work is challenge they've chosen to tackle and meet with open arms.

Ok... then they probably should've done without the plot ghosts and the whole destiny and fate thing. Also if Aerith continues on the same path she is on with having or receiving these progressive revelations of whats going on then things are going to feel pretty weird when it gets close to the time she would originally die in og7. Do they make her a willing sacrifice? Well no, because thats not what she was before. So whats the other option now? Just do it a little different this time? Ok sure, but why do we need remake's ending to justify doing major plot points differently this time around? You don't. It all seems like a waste for them not to do something bold and different this time. I don't think people are realizing the hidden elements of remake that are not present in the original. Even the music is telling story in remake when and where it plays. There is a lot of digging to be done here. If people are going to assume everything is going to play out basically the same as og7 then this thread is pretty pointless. We know who lives and dies.

 

[oty]

Just because some things can change, doesnt mean everything will. We can still have large deviations of the storyline and yet, Aerith still dies. What is the connection here?

 

[argent_angel]

Just because some things can change, doesnt mean everything will. We can still have large deviations of the storyline and yet, Aerith still dies. What is the connection here?

The themes of remake so far suggests anything is possible from this point forward. Zack is not supposed to be alive right now, but he is. That in and of itself is VERY big. Biggs is alive and he's not supposed to be. The point is anything is possible and yes anyone can still die. They have an opportunity with this to do something very bold and different than the usual expected outcomes.

 

[Theozilla]

The themes of remake so far suggests anything is possible from this point forward. Zack is not supposed to be alive right now, but he is. That in and of itself is VERY big. Biggs is alive and he's not supposed to be. The point is anything is possible and yes anyone can still die. They have an opportunity with this to do something very bold and different than the usual expected outcomes.

Okay, but the Zack thing is a deliberate mystery that going to resolve itself in future installment, a likely indication Zack isn’t staying alive (at least not in the main Remake installment narrative). Also Biggs being alive isn’t nearly comparable to Aerith and Zack in terms of significance and overall plot deviation.
And the developers have literally future installments aren’t going deviate from the major OG plot points and have already mentioned Aerith’s death as foreshadowed plot point. So unless you want to assume that the developers are blatantly lying we can be confident Aerith isn’t avoiding her death.

 

[argent_angel]

Okay, but the Zack thing is a deliberate mystery that going to resolve itself in future installment, a likely indication Zack isn’t staying alive (at least not in the main Remake installment narrative). Also Biggs being alive isn’t nearly comparable to Aerith and Zack in terms of significance and overall plot deviation.
And the developers have literally future installments aren’t going deviate from the major OG plot points and have already mentioned Aerith’s death as foreshadowed plot point. So unless you want to assume that the developers are blatantly lying we can be confident Aerith isn’t avoiding her death.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm holding the game to the themes and standards it set throughout and at the end to go forward in similar fashion. I'm not the one that introduced the whole defying destiny thing with an actual boss fight centered around destiny and fate being directly affected by it. You seem to want to cling onto og7 and try to make the new elements that remake introduced somehow go along with it but the reality is it doesn't. Why not be more open minded about this with the potential of what remake could be rather than chaining it down to a predetermined outcome? Is it because you read in the interview that they aren't going to deviate from the major OG plot points? Tell me where is the harbinger whisper in OG7? Where are the plot ghosts? Where is Aerith with her foreknowledge of events? Where is a Zack being alive? Sephiroth boss fight on the highway leaving Midgar? Do you think they could've done the same kind of interview and say they aren't going to deviate from major OG plot points and then you play remake and get all of that? I know most of the game still retained the moments from OG7 (the plot ghosts made sure of that but we don't have those anymore) but the point is now they are not restrained with what they can do going forward and they proved that with part 1. Just try to be open minded about it. Remake part 1 was amazing. No matter what they do going forward I'm sure it will still feel just the same.

 

[oty]

....we are just going by what the developers said in the ultimania man

 

[Theozilla]

I'm not assuming anything. I'm holding the game to the themes and standards it set throughout and at the end to go forward in similar fashion. I'm not the one that introduced the whole defying destiny thing with an actual boss fight centered around destiny and fate being directly affected by it. You seem to want to cling onto og7 and try to make the new elements that remake introduced somehow go along with it but the reality is it doesn't. Why not be more open minded about this with the potential of what remake could be rather than chaining it down to a predetermined outcome? Is it because you read in the interview that they aren't going to deviate from the major OG plot points? Tell me where is the harbinger whisper in OG7? Where are the plot ghosts? Where is Aerith with her foreknowledge of events? Where is a Zack being alive? Sephiroth boss fight on the highway leaving Midgar? Do you think they could've done the same kind of interview and say they aren't going to deviate from major OG plot points and then you play remake and get all of that? I know most of the game still retained the moments from OG7 (the plot ghosts made sure of that but we don't have those anymore) but the point is now they are not restrained with what they can do going forward and they proved that with part 1. Just try to be open minded about it. Remake part 1 was amazing. No matter what they do going forward I'm sure it will still feel just the same.

I felt this way even before the Ultimania interviews. I’ve been constantly stating I think that the Remake is going to retain the skeleton of the OG but with change up the meat of the story. The Ultimania interviews just further validated my expectations I feel. Also I think you and I have very different of what is considered a “major deviation”, all that has occurred in the Remake so far I would not consider a major deviation. And I expect the mystery of the Zack subplot will be resolved in a similar manner than retains the overall OG skeleton intact.

If you don’t want to believe the statements of the developers themselves feel free to do so. Regardless of how you personally feel about the Remake that doesn’t changed what the developers currently stated intentions are.

 

[argent_angel]

I felt this way even before the Ultimania interviews. I’ve been constantly stating I think that the Remake is going to retain the skeleton of the OG but with change up the meat of the story. The Ultimania interviews just further validated my expectations I feel. Also I think you and I have very different of what is considered a “major deviation”, all that has occurred in the Remake so far I would not consider a major deviation. And I expect the mystery of the Zack subplot will be resolved in a similar manner than retains the overall OG skeleton intact.

If you don’t want to believe the statements of the developers themselves feel free to do so. Regardless of how you personally feel about the Remake that doesn’t changed what the developers currently stated intentions are.

I believe what they said but I also can't set aside what remake put before me which is why I am very curious to see what happens going forward. If its just the same things just this time delivered a bit differently (for example instead of someone dieing here they die over there kind of thing) then was the whole destiny and fate element worth even putting in the game? Are you really Ok with that?

 

[Wol]

I believe what they said but I also can't set aside what remake put before me which is why I am very curious to see what happens going forward. If its just the same things just this time delivered a bit differently (for example instead of someone dieing here they die over there kind of thing) then was the whole destiny and fate element worth even putting in the game? Are you 9really Ok with that?

Personally, it would have been better if they simply changed stuff without adding convoluted nonsense to justify them changing stuff.

I think the 'new' we're going to get will be around the same caliber of the ending, but it doesn't mean they won't recreate OGs iconic moments.

 

[Theozilla]

I believe what they said but I also can't set aside what remake put before me which is why I am very curious to see what happens going forward. If its just the same things just this time delivered a bit differently (for example instead of someone dieing here they die over there kind of thing) then was the whole destiny and fate element worth even putting in the game? Are you really Ok with that?

Heck yeah, I would be okay with that, as that has been my expectation since finishing the Remake. The destiny and fate elements can arguably be a little too cryptic for their own good, but I find them to be acceptable additions to exist alongside the events of the OG that have and, as stated by the developers, will continue to be adapted into future Remake installments.

 

[oty]

I feel the "justification" is well, 1.something a lot of fans are going to like because it automatically means that that will set away the notion that this "is the OG" (yes there are plenty of fans like that) but also, 2. a device that they are utilising to install a metanarrative in the game, "breaking" the fourth wall.

I feel like they could have been more subtle, and that would have been the better approach (like their first plan seemed to be), but to each their own.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Any discussion of Aerith's death in the Remake has to consider not only whether she will die, but whether she needs to die. To put it another way, when asking whether she's a willing sacrifice, we need to consider both whether she's willing (i.e., has foreknowledge) and whether she's a sacrifice: that is, something that needs to be given up in order for something else to be obtained.

Leaving aside the question of her willingness for the moment, I'd argue that she was not a sacrifice. She did not need to die in order for Sephiroth to be defeated and the Planet to be saved. Some people are of the opinion that it's only because she's in the Lifestream that the Planet decides to muster its own defences to drive off Meteor; somehow, she persuades the Planet to do this or bends it to her will. That's certainly a possible interpretation, but there's no firm evidence either way.

The story of how Sakugichi's mother died while they were making this game, and the effect that her loss had on him, has always coloured my view of Aerith's death. Death is cruel, abrupt, and meaningless; life is precious. Aerith's death isn't beautiful. It serves no purpose. It brings the party no closer to their goals, and robs them of their healer. The Planet is arbitrary and indifferent, concerned only with its own preservation. Yet despite all this, the party struggles on, creating their own purpose and meaning, and figuring out what it is that drives each of them personally to keep fighting.

I prefer this interpretation because the message resonates for me personally.

Aerith may forsee her fate. Still, knowing how and where you will die doesn't automatically mean your death is meaningful. It may be necessary in the sense that everything is predetermined, while not also necessary in the sense that it achieves nothing.

This time around, the designers may decide that Aerith's death is necessary in order to save the planet. That will be as big a change as deciding to make her go willingly to a death she has foreseen.