Church Glitches and Ghosts FAQ *spoilers*

[Arianna]

The "While we may never know" was a response to the question WHY we have this glitch and the ghost in the game in the first place. No one knows if it was part of a sidequest that was scrapped or not.

"I am almost convinced" etc means that players with programming skills (like Terence) probably know how the game is built; thus know why everything here happens the way it does. But some of this knowledge never gets caught up by the public or get written into guides...


My guess is that you face the red girl when the ghost is there, but you get the Aeris glitch when the ghost is gone. Just a guess, but makes sense since you always cancelled the ghost in your playthroughs.

Hmmmm... Perhaps. I actually think that this stuff was purposely put into the game - but then, I'm not one of those people who would know how to read the code as well as have no way to find out from a valid source at Square Enix. Hopefully you will solve this mystery for all of us who can't, Shade.

Perhaps it was a scrapped side quest, or perhaps it is there because Aerith was an important member of the team - no matter what Cloud's feelings for her. I vote the second most of all.

I was watching some YouTube videos of the GameShark rooms you can access. One of them features a scene of an ice cave at the Great Glacier, and Aerith's song plays. Perhaps there were going to be sporadic visions of Aerith throughout the game; again, she was an important character, so I don't see why not.

Thank you Shade.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Thank you muchly Shade!

So the ghost doesn't have anything to do with how well you treat Aerith or not? http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/sa_church.shtml (The only other theory is the 'ghost' appears in a position corresponding to how well you treated Aeris. If you treat her well, she may appear adjacent to the flower bed. If she is treated normally, perhaps she will only appear in the aisle. And if you treat her with contempt, perhaps she doesn't appear at all.)
That's interesting. I also didn't know codes to get into Midgar could be found, maybe you could also lay those "General" rumours to rest

 

[Shademp]

Yeah, I had the "affection points" theory for the ghost that tends to the flowers. However that has been pretty much debunked now.
I'm surprised that I never gave much thought to the 'dispositioning' glitch though. The affection points theory might be correct for that phenomena. Should be easy to check; whether through playing normally or using cheats.

I hope I can keep my interest in this stuff and then create a more organized guide; so to prevent misunderstandings about the flower-tending-ghost versus the-entrance-facing-Aeris/red-girl, and to enlighten everyone about the details of this enigma. (Edit: moreso than FF7citadel already does.)

Double edit: *sigh* I'm making myself busy with too many FFVII projects.

 

[Arianna]

Well, we love you for it Shade!

I need to try that, I guess - seeing if I can get the ghost.

I won't inquire about Nibelheim... (which seems odd.)

 

[Blue]

Sure hope someone also figures out why Reno's ghost (of his hair) also appears with Aerith.

 

[Shademp]

Sure hope someone also figures out why Reno's ghost (of his hair) also appears with Aerith.

Yeah I haven't thought much about Reno appearing at the entrance... Maybe he has his own mechanics as well, and a flag connected to him. Who knows.


I have now compared how this glitch acts before and after the spoils from Jenova-Life. And in short...it is very different. After defeating Jenova-Life, and having made sure that the flower-tending ghost is there, Aeris never faces the entrance. What happens instead is, in short, that the girl is above the pew.

If you then cancel the flower-tending ghost, and re-enter the church, everything will take place as the moment before except it all passes by quicker. Almost as if adding the ghost at the flowers decreases the rate at which the characters are moved about on the screen...

I'm noticing a lot of stuff over here, and will continue to do more research. But don't expect me to find the REASON for all this even existing in the game. If I can I will post a series of snapshots showing how each version of this glitch unfolds.


On an unrelated note, I just used a cheat to enter the Honey Bee Inn when you're not supposed to be there (tried this on both disc 1 and 2), after the fall of Sector 7. Something strange happened! The background turned red-ish, two eerie sound effects played, Cloud looked around confused, and then one of the females in Bee outfits approached Cloud and said,
"Sir...... Choose the BEST 'flavor' from the 4 rooms. But you can only choose from an unoccupied room." Take note that I had not entered the Honey Bee Inn earlier in this playthrough. Aside from this weird event, all events could unfold the way they could during the cross-dressing event.
Her usual line is,
""Poo, I uh, mean, Sir... Hurry..."
Edit: If I can't find a guide about this stuff either then I may create a thread about it.

 

[Shademp]

Interesting info provided by BrutalAl;

The reason the characters tend to appear above the pew is because that is the field's origo (0,0,0).

Here's the deal:
When the field (the pre-rendered background) loads each character has an initial position and is then directed to its actual position. USUALLY these two positions are the same.
But the developers were lazy in this room; they didn't give any initial positions to the characters, and what happens then is that a character is redirected to origo, the centre of the room's x, y and z axis, due to their LACK of initial positions.

It can be speculated why this mistake was made, but the truth is that the characters lack initial positions and thus move about in this erratic manner, when they move from origo to their correct position, and to finally be turned in the correct direction.

I will try now and see if I can post snapshots of how both versions of this glitch unfolds...

 

[Arianna]

Layman's terms, Shade? Thanks.

 

[Shademp]

Major edit done to the first post. Take a look!
Could an admin please change the title of
this thread to "Church Glitches and Ghosts FAQ *spoilers*"
(thanks Aaron)

Sorry Arianna. Basically think of it like this:
When the characters don't know where to be, they move to the centre (origo) of everything. It is simply a natural move for them to make, because the game hasn't told them otherwise. Then they remember "Right! I'm supposed to be over there!" and moves to the correct spot and moves in the correct direction.
That is why the characters move about in such a weird way.

 

[Arianna]

Oh! Okay, I get it now!

Perhaps why I see the Aerith figure glitch is because I've always cancelled out her ghost; the form at the pews disappears all together. The program is saying, 'this figure doesn't belong anywhere.' Again - a lag of the program/technology reading the program?

Well, from seeing a YouTube video of said ghost of Aerith, and from how you're talking, it definitely appears to me that Aerith's ghost appearing (or not) was definitely done with purpose. Yeah, though, why is another question?

Thanks Shade!

 

[Shademp]

The console you play it on should have no effect. Rather than a 'conflict' going on, it's just that the developers forgot to make the correct adjustments. Though if they were about to do something more with that room we don't know.

I'm sorry for confusing everybody about the "flag values" which ended up having no bearing on the issue at all. At least I hope this turned into a good FAQ about the church anomalies, and I will add details if any new surface.

 

[Arianna]

Hey, I learned something new! Hence, why I thanked you too.

... And, I'm rhyming.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

In my opinion, not reading the rest of the TL;DR thread, the ghost is supposed to appear when Aerith dies, has no major significance, & is a little glitchy in that it appears more than once, & sometimes when she's still alive.

The reason I don't think it's a total glitch is because of the way Cloud runs up to it when it appears.

 

[Shademp]

I just found something of great interest while searching through the game's script files.

In the field left to the church, where you can find a save point, there was dialogue assigned to a guy whom we never actually see there. He says alot of things but among the most interesting is this:
(Guy)
“I saw her!
I really did!”
“This woman just disappeared!
Right there around the old church.”
“I waited around a long time,
but she never came out again!”
“I tell you, it's one of them
…haunted churches!
Ohhh…shiver…shake…”

At face value he seems to refer to Aeris's ghost, but later dialogue in the script shows Aeris saying "You mean that's..." which COULD be a response to the guy's above lines. Maybe he saw the ghost of Ifalna? Either way, it is interesting because this surrounds the church.

Edit: I reckon there just MAY be a way to unlock this if I could find a way to speak to the green-jacket guy you see pass by very quickly in that area, after Cloud and Aeris has escaped from the Shinra soldiers.

 

[Tetsujin]

I just found something of great interest while searching through the game's script files.

In the field left to the church, where you can find a save point, there was dialogue assigned to a guy whom we never actually see there. He says alot of things but among the most interesting is this:
(Guy)
“I saw her!
I really did!”
“This woman just disappeared!
Right there around the old church.”
“I waited around a long time,
but she never came out again!”
“I tell you, it's one of them
…haunted churches!
Ohhh…shiver…shake…”

At face value he seems to refer to Aeris's ghost, but later dialogue in the script shows Aeris saying "You mean that's..." which COULD be a response to the guy's above lines. Maybe he saw the ghost of Ifalna? Either way, it is interesting because this surrounds the church.

Maybe he just saw Aerith go into the church and she went out through the hole in the roof, explaining why he never saw her exit the church.

 

[Shademp]

Maybe he just saw Aerith go into the church and she went out through the hole in the roof, explaining why he never saw her exit the church.

Sounds boring but quite likely though. Hmm. Oh well, he says some funny stuff.

“A really weird guy lives inside of
some Huge Materia! And then there were
9 little devils! Ohh…shiver…shake…”
“Huh?
Oh, uh, no, I uh…
really didn't see it myself…I uh,
well, it was more like a, whaddya
call…rumor I heard.”
“All right. It was a lie.
I just made it up because
nothing's been happening around
here lately.”

 

[Tetsujin]

Wow, that guy is high on something.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Or dropping rumors for cut sidequests.

Or both

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Well I remember having similar problems back in my RPGMaker2K days, as far as that flag is concerned. I'm sure the programming of FF7 is much more intricate, but if the flag system is at all similar, it could be that they first used, say, flag #3456 to affect a scene with Aeris in the Church. Then they scrapped that idea and thought they removed everything that had to do with it, making flag #3456 available for use again. Then they used flag #3456 for the Nibelheim innkeeper, but didn't realize they accidentally left it in the church NPCs, so when the innkeeper switches flag #3456 on, it affects the church NPCs because they're accidentally running off the same flag.

“Huh?
Oh, uh, no, I uh…
really didn't see it myself…I uh,
well, it was more like a, whaddya
call…rumor I heard.”
“All right. It was a lie.
I just made it up because
nothing's been happening around
here lately.”

Sounds to me like they predicted exactly how the fandom was going to react to Aerith's death. "I, uh, I heard a rumor! Really! Okay...no...I just made it up because I'm bored..."

Hell, it could even be a snarky comment on these types of rumors in general, if they're that clever. Sort of like how I think Genesis is meant to mock fans who take FF7 way too seriously (not like any of us would know anyone like that).

 

[mohgle]

Wow, this is fantastic. One of the things that keeps VII timeless is all the mysteries...