- AKA
- TresDias
Perhaps one vault door was stronger (i.e. thicker and made of something denser) than the other?
Cloud and swordsmanship
- Thread starter MasterMoogle
- Start date
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
So you're just going to ignore the cutscenes afterwards that show a confident Cloud defeating both of them. Nevermind the entirety of chapter 4's bike sequence that shows Cloud effortlessly going Advent Children on Roche and his bike, effortlessly disabling Roche on his ride while protecting Jessie, all while being able to land back on his own bike and continue on like nothing happened. Completely unharmed with Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge protected. That's some selective scene analysis there.
Once again, Reno is beaten black and blue and within an inch of his life until the Arbiters of Fate whisk Cloud away because Cloud would have killed Reno had they not intervened. Nevermind the fact Cloud can effortlessly block any attack Reno throws at him with Punisher Mode, Cloud legit breaks Reno in two so bad Reno begged for mercy. Your own measure of analyzing the ability of Cloud here shows total domination yet somehow you took away Cloud barely getting a win because Reno dodged his first attack? Okay. Reno still lost with his advantage of speed. And that's because Cloud doesn't just rely on speed or brute force.
And Genesis and Angeal being monsters diminishes the argument that Zack somehow took out all these 1st Class SOLDIERs in their prime, one-on-one as equals and somehow he went beast mode on them to prove he was the strongest SOLDIER 1st Class next to Sephiroth, when that wasn't even the context of those fights. Angeal Penance isn't Angeal the SOLDIER 1st Class. Genesis Avatar isn't the non-degrading SOLDIER 1st Class. Their fights with Zack were nothing like the sparring session they had with Sephiroth. Zack was fighting for his life using every tool in his Arsenal to beat back a monster. Not do a performance exam to determine the fitness and strength of two SOLDIER 1-Cs.
I was merely using your logic regarding "swinging your sword around chaotically doesn't require skill." Zack's swinging around his sword just as wildly as anyone else here, to be honest. Because it works. And to somehow imply that a superhuman number of consecutive sword strikes inflicted within a short frame of time is trivial or indicative of a lack of skill, is silly. Sephiroth's Scintilla and Fervent Blow abilities strike so fast that you simply don't see him slashing you. He deals so many hits at once they are a mere flash. Omnislash was able to kill Sephiroth for a reason. Those sword blows struck him so fast, he had no time to react. Speed and consecutive attacks from the likes of Omnislash and Ascension definitely speak to superhuman skill and calling it merely swinging a sword chaotically is a wild misrepresentation.
Right, nevermind the skyscraper or train cars Cloud cleaved in two when he was at his limit break and in the heat of combat against Sephiroth. Zack tore through the Jenova chamber door when he was surging with emotions and energy from witnessing Sephiroth's atrocities.
Cloud tore through a skyscraper and a train hurled at him when he was in the throes of focused combat and in the midst of battle against Sephiroth.
Yup. The door was more impressive. Clearly. Do you realize how absurdly selective you are in trying to make this claim? It's not even debatable. Nothing in Crisis Core was demonstrated to be on the level of skill and superhuman ability, as what Cloud and the others did in the Remake. To argue otherwise is to literally deny what's in front of your face.
Once again, Reno is beaten black and blue and within an inch of his life until the Arbiters of Fate whisk Cloud away because Cloud would have killed Reno had they not intervened. Nevermind the fact Cloud can effortlessly block any attack Reno throws at him with Punisher Mode, Cloud legit breaks Reno in two so bad Reno begged for mercy. Your own measure of analyzing the ability of Cloud here shows total domination yet somehow you took away Cloud barely getting a win because Reno dodged his first attack? Okay. Reno still lost with his advantage of speed. And that's because Cloud doesn't just rely on speed or brute force.
And Genesis and Angeal being monsters diminishes the argument that Zack somehow took out all these 1st Class SOLDIERs in their prime, one-on-one as equals and somehow he went beast mode on them to prove he was the strongest SOLDIER 1st Class next to Sephiroth, when that wasn't even the context of those fights. Angeal Penance isn't Angeal the SOLDIER 1st Class. Genesis Avatar isn't the non-degrading SOLDIER 1st Class. Their fights with Zack were nothing like the sparring session they had with Sephiroth. Zack was fighting for his life using every tool in his Arsenal to beat back a monster. Not do a performance exam to determine the fitness and strength of two SOLDIER 1-Cs.
I was merely using your logic regarding "swinging your sword around chaotically doesn't require skill." Zack's swinging around his sword just as wildly as anyone else here, to be honest. Because it works. And to somehow imply that a superhuman number of consecutive sword strikes inflicted within a short frame of time is trivial or indicative of a lack of skill, is silly. Sephiroth's Scintilla and Fervent Blow abilities strike so fast that you simply don't see him slashing you. He deals so many hits at once they are a mere flash. Omnislash was able to kill Sephiroth for a reason. Those sword blows struck him so fast, he had no time to react. Speed and consecutive attacks from the likes of Omnislash and Ascension definitely speak to superhuman skill and calling it merely swinging a sword chaotically is a wild misrepresentation.
Right, nevermind the skyscraper or train cars Cloud cleaved in two when he was at his limit break and in the heat of combat against Sephiroth. Zack tore through the Jenova chamber door when he was surging with emotions and energy from witnessing Sephiroth's atrocities.
Cloud tore through a skyscraper and a train hurled at him when he was in the throes of focused combat and in the midst of battle against Sephiroth.
Yup. The door was more impressive. Clearly. Do you realize how absurdly selective you are in trying to make this claim? It's not even debatable. Nothing in Crisis Core was demonstrated to be on the level of skill and superhuman ability, as what Cloud and the others did in the Remake. To argue otherwise is to literally deny what's in front of your face.