Cloud and Tseng's Relationship

[X-SOLDIER]

Ok, now here's something interesting to think about:

Cloud's memories are an amalgamation of his & Zack's. They appear by convenience, but we don't know if everything that was crammed into his head was permanently kept there, or if it faded after Tifa 'fixed' him in the Lifestream.

It doesn't really make sense that he completely forget things from a point of view which he was previously aware. I think that means that any of Zack's memories that were crammed into his head are still there, but Cloud now recognizes these as memories that aren't his. They just become his memories from Zack.


This would be especially interesting in a sequel that starts dealing with Genesis' return as foreshadowed in DoC. Cloud might then be prompted to remember connections from Zack's transferred memories to things that he previously had no reason to recall. This would keep continuity with the events in Crisis Core, and it would also explain how the Jenova-arranged memories emerge when they're prompted by the appropriate stimuli: Thus Sephiroth memories emerged during reencounters with Sephiroth, and Tifa memories get prompted Tifa. Since he's no under control of how his memory functions much better than his FFVII-self, when the opportunity presents itself, Genesis memories would emerge for Genesis.

It would let Cloud still be a little mentally muddled, but in a much more stable manner, and would be a good way to write his character for a new game. Enough of the "old" Cloud, while still keeping his developments from the other titles.


X

 

[ForceStealer]

That's interesting to think about. I never really considered before that, even though Cloud has recovered himself, he still carries memories in his head that aren't his own.

Further musing, if Great Gospel really did purge the Jenova from his body, would he have lost those memories as well? (He'd still remember Zack telling him, I imagine, but would no longer have the memory as though he was actually there.)

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Well, to get technical on a FFVII-level, let's look at the mechanics behind how this could work.



Mako/Lifestream exposure to a Jenova-cell recipients seems to be the key factor to in successfully posessing another's memories. Mako Addiction is a side effect that both Sephiroth & Cloud suffer from, though unlike Sephiroth, it pretty much cripples Cloud.

When Sephiroth was tossed into the Lifestream, he managed to absorb knowledge from the Lifestream, composed of the consciousnesses and memories of the deceased, which would suggest that it's capable to store memories of other beings in your own mind, and retain the knowledge as your own.

I would assume that, the presense of Jenova cells would provide an alien consciousness that would allow you to seperate your ego from that of the madness in the Lifestream. That would allow the Jenova consciousness to arrange the memories in your biology a meaningful manner, but it wouldn't be able to store them on its own. Sephiroth's own control over this aspect, in addition to his natural abilities would show why he's in control of this process and his memories his mental stability, while Cloud doesn't.

IF that's indeed how this works, all that means is that the Jenova cells control the arrangement of the framework for memory storage in the host, and can manipulate that to control them. If Great Gospel purged Cloud's Jenova cells, that framework of knowledge should still exist, but wouldn't be able to be manipulated by any Jenova-spawned entity.



Essentially, Cloud still has parts of memories that aren't his, and his mind would be free of manipulation from Jenova-celled entities. Likely the framework is still built to gain access to those memories upon relevance to that based upon exposure, so he wouldn't remember much about Genesis until encountering him. It'd fit his character as being Zack's living legacy quite well.

As for Tseng, I'd be willing to assume that he didn't receive an appropriate trigger to set off the memories at the times of their encounters, or as appears to be the case with Aerith, some of the memories during that time were being blocked, because they would have revealed things that conflicted with other parts of Cloud's experiences, and clued him in to a split personality, or they were held off in an attempt to manipulate him towards a specific path. Both options seem plausible, given the theoretical method of functionality that I presented.


X

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Excellent summaries of everything, X. =)

I agree that it would be a great use of the previous plot point in a sequel to have Cloud begin recalling things about Genesis from memories lifted from Zack. He'd recognize that it's Zack's memories (the same way you proposed that he remembers everything he got from Zack about the Nibelheim incident, but with the correct actors in their respective roles), but would be able to glean knowledge about Genesis from them.

I do have to say that the idea of the Turks remembering Cloud is intriguing, though. I don't think Reno or Rude would have any memory, but Tseng certainly might. In fact, was that hinted at in the novella? I'll have to go reread that part.

It was hinted in Case of Shin-Ra that Tseng knows of Cloud quite well, yes. I'd also propose that Reno and Rude would, given that they had a conscientious objection to what happened to Nibelheim's residents while on the scene (Before Crisis), and given that Tseng sent them to capture him and Zack before the army could five years later.

Mostly Zack, but Cloud too was a big deal for all of them, if only because of their guilt.

 

[Ite]

I agree that it would be a great use of the previous plot point in a sequel to have Cloud begin recalling things about Genesis from memories lifted from Zack. He'd recognize that it's Zack's memories... but would be able to glean knowledge about Genesis from them.

A new sequel in which Genesis returns, and Cloud -- the only surviving member of the Genesis War -- has to search through his memories for knowledge of Genesis before it's too late. In the memory sequences, you play through the eyes of Zack, learning what happened as Cloud recovers those memories.

That would have been a way better way to tell Crisis Core's story. It would have avoided the shitty ending because framing it in a longer game (like, a Final Fantasy length game) would have removed its pomp and circumstance. It also would have had focus and drive unlike DoC (the flashbacks were gratuitous and not very expository) or CC (the story of the game shambles on, thinking of things to do before the death scene). Also, it would feature the entire FF7 Cast without needlessly reviving anyone. Sephiroth has his role to play in the past. Cloud could become obsessed with seeing Aeris through Zack's eyes. It might actually be good.

But I digress.