Cloud's personality

[Neutron Ronnie]

Do we have a thread addressing this? If we do - apologies in advance.

So Cloud's personality at the start of Final Fantasy VII is... what? A mixture of his own personality and Zack's? His perception of Zack's personality? How much did Jenova have to do with his actual interactions with other people?

Because... I always thought Cloud was a royal jackass at the start of the game. I truly hated him for the first couple of hours. He acts all high and mighty, says he doesn't want to hear Biggs' and the others' names, and actually almost walks out on Tifa when she's begging him to help her.

Yes, I know he turned back when she reminded him of the promise, but the point I'm trying to make is that she had to beg.

I just can't see Zack doing any of those things. He was open and friendly, and as a mercenary he would've probably agreed to Tifa's request. I also can't see the original Cloud - what little I've seen of him from the Before Crisis script - telling people he didn't want to hear their names.

So... why is Cloud an asshole at the start of the game?

 

[Alex]

Spoiler

Because he's HIV positive.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Because... I always thought Cloud was a royal jackass at the start of the game. I truly hated him for the first couple of hours. He acts all high and mighty, says he doesn't want to hear Biggs' and the others' names, and actually almost walks out on Tifa when she's begging him to help her.

I actually liked that about his personality and wished he was a dick for more of the game. Back when I first played it, RPG protagonists were still the HAPPY GO LUCKY PLUCKY DUCK 'LET'S DO IT GUYS' type of dudes, and it was refreshing back then to see one that didn't give a fuck.

 

[Bex]

Spoiler

Because he's HIV positive.

This is probably Cloud.

 

[Shademp]

Cloud is an asshole because he is suppressing emotional trauma and experiencing conflicts of identity; I don't think I need to explain exactly why this is the case.

But not caring about anything is not who he is and so even characters like Barret soon notice how Cloud can actually care for someone/something; like when they go to save Aerith in Shinra HQ.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

This is probably Cloud.

W...T...F... That was hilarious, though.

But not caring about anything is not who he is and so even characters like Barret soon notice how Cloud can actually care for someone/something; like when they go to save Aerith in Shinra HQ.

Yeah, I figured him showing concern, helping Jessie out twice at the reactor, etc., etc. - all of that was either his original personality, or Zack's, showing through.

So you reckon Za-Cloud's jackassery was due to the fact that he was suppressing emotional trauma? Are there any other takes?

 

[Tennyo]

I agree with Mog in that I kind of liked asshole!Cloud. I don't know why, I just kind of did. He amused me with how much of a jerk he was.

However, the thing you have to realize about Cloud in the beginning of the game is that he is all kinds of messed up. Nothing about him is consistent. He says he doesn't care then is later shown to actually care about people/things. He'll be a jerk one minute and then be nice the next. Cid sums it up best with his line (on the Highwind after they escape Junon on disc 2 when they all talk about Cloud and whether or not he was really just a clone of someone else) about how Cloud would get you thinking he was all cool one moment then the next he'd go do a damned fool thing, or something like that.

He is a mixture of Zack's personality, the ideas in his head of the ideal SOLDIER, the kind of person he wished he could be when he was younger, with bits of Tifa's mixed up memories, all while the real him is trying to pop back out of wherever Jenova buried him.

Nothing about him is consistent or makes sense. This is done on purpose. The other members of the cast point this out quite often.

 

[Isabella]

When Tifa found him in the train station, didn't the Jenova cells absorb some of her memories of him as a child? She remembers him being anti-social and getting into fights a lot, so maybe the asshole Cloud is due to Jenova's influence.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I always kind of thought it was his vision of how he "wanted" to be. The cool, tough guy who is super strong, super badass, and doesn't have to care about anyone or anything because he is just so damned cool. Isn't that how he perceived Sephiroth, his idol, to be? Isn't that how a lot of teenage boys try to act, actually?

 

[Tennyo]

Bella and Ravynne, those are both points I covered in my post. I think both are very valid aspects of faux Cloud on disc one.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Well exca-yoose me, I guess I'm retiterating and elaborating, then. ;P

 

[Tennyo]

Oh no I didn't mean it as a bad thing! Just that they were both relevant.

 

[Celes Chere]

I prefer innocent Cloud. The one that was cute and naive, and didn't have anything messing with his mind. Crisis Core Cloud will probably always be my favorite version. I liked sarcastic dorky Cloud, but in AC I couldn't stand him. ACC made it a little better, though.

 

[ForceStealer]

Jenova didn't have anything to do with his personality directly. She screwed up his memory, but the persona that emerged was, as people said, an amalgam of Zack, Sephiroth, and how he assumed a 1st Class SOLDIER would act. None of it was Jenova's "personality." I don't think that's what you meant, but just to clarify.

ACC did improve his character a lot, I think. (For example, him interjecting and threatening Rufus, rather than just standing there) His limited appearence in Dirge of Cerberus was also very true to his character I thought, complete with the humor.

 

[Tennyo]

Oh no, none of it was Jenova's personality. Does she even have one? lol

But no what it was that Jenova contributed was the mimicry. The Jenova cells were what absorbed the outside memories of Zack, Tifa, etc., and formed them into a new personality for Cloud as he saw fit in his subconscious (perhaps based on his own ideals of how a touch a respectable SOLDIER member should be). But Cloud wasn't acting based on Jenova's own personality.

And yeah, ACC did give Cloud some better lines, and Cloud did seem back to his actual self in DoC. Yay!

 

[KissTheRain]

I enjoy all aspects of Cloud so I was with super dick version of him personally. But I have quotes as reasoning of why he was that way. (: It's pretty much what Tennyo said just jazzed up with references, lol.now i will have the better post >:3

Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered, he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal"; this was because the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him. ~FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 13

So pretty much Cloud in the beginning of FFVII is Tifa's memories of him being cold and mean + Cloud's ideal version of self Zack equaling present Cloud. But even though Cloud was a bit jumbled in the mind this proves that the anti-social "dickhead" like personality was in fact Cloud and not just a memory to me-

After developing his personality by using Zack's memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud's coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interest” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality. ~page 180, FFVII Ultimania Omega

So Cloud being cold was being Cloud, just to add character to growth to him is what they did by making him less cold because he finally has friends now. At least that is my interpretation. Cloud's career and past were the falsehood, not his personality.

 

[Vendel]

Cloud's career and past were the falsehood, not his personality.[/COLOR]

Excerpts from Clouds profile FF7 10 anv ult.

"Due to the influence of the Jenova cells implanted in his body he acted out a false persona, but with the support of his friends he regains his true self and grows as a person."

"Cloud, having suffered heavy injuries during the incident, was injected with cells from Jenova, an extraterrestrial life form. These cells, which Sephiroth also had in his body, controlled Cloud’s thoughts and created a separate personality, and tried to manipulate Cloud into joining with Sephiroth."

"Under the effect of Jenova’s cells, Cloud mimics his best friend Zack and creates a new persona, but the mental aspects weren’t the only things he received from Zack."

"While being tended to by a station worker in the Sector 7 Slum train station, he was reunited with Tifa, and using the abilities of Jenova’s cells formed a new personality. With Tifa’s invitation, he decided to assist AVALANCHE."

Not so much KTR.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I enjoy all aspects of Cloud so I was with super dick version of him personally. But I have quotes as reasoning of why he was that way. (: It's pretty much what Tennyo said just jazzed up with references, lol.now i will have the better post >:3

Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered, he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal"; this was because the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him. ~FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 13

So pretty much Cloud in the beginning of FFVII is Tifa's memories of him being cold and mean + Cloud's ideal version of self Zack equaling present Cloud. But even though Cloud was a bit jumbled in the mind this proves that the anti-social "dickhead" like personality was in fact Cloud and not just a memory to me-

After developing his personality by using Zack's memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud's coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interest” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality. ~page 180, FFVII Ultimania Omega

So Cloud being cold was being Cloud, just to add character to growth to him is what they did by making him less cold because he finally has friends now. At least that is my interpretation. Cloud's career and past were the falsehood, not his personality.

No, even with 'real' Cloud, him being cold is more of a cover or a defense mechanism than an actual true coldness. Cloud cares, he wants to get close, but he freaks out and fights people or pushes them away.

 

[KissTheRain]

I do think Cloud has a caring side on the inside, but in the beginning when he barely knows he is and has no friends until Tifa comes up is going to be cold. Then throughout the game he adjusts to everything and everyone and is more like CC Cloud who has a friend and is generally happy and what not.

 

[ForceStealer]

When he's being a dick in the beginning of the game it has more to do with what he saw of Sephiroth and his vision of a 1st rather than his defensive coldness. He was unaware of his weak self at the time, so he would have no need to be defensively cold.

 

[loverofCloud]

ac actually deluded me about Cloud's personality.. he is too much depressed!! also i liked a lot how he was in DoC but personally the Cloud i love more is the one at begin of ff7.. he made me laugh a lot acting that way .

 

[minimosey]

When he's being a dick in the beginning of the game it has more to do with what he saw of Sephiroth and his vision of a 1st rather than his defensive coldness. He was unaware of his weak self at the time, so he would have no need to be defensively cold.

He's not aware of his failures, but imo, there would still be a need for "defense". He's hearing things, his memory's a mess (flashes of Nibelheim, does he even have any explanation for the five years in between?); if he was at all aware of coming out of the mako poisoning, he knows he's been seriously ill recently, without knowing what the illness was; he's kind of "alone" because even though he believes Tifa was a childhood friend, it's also been five years since he last saw her and she's acting a bit oddly toward him because of the memory issue. There is a lot of instability in his life, even without him remembering not being able to do anything to stop Zack's death or something like that. He's even living as a mercenary. For a terrorist organization. Nooo stability in that whatsoever. Being cold and acting like a hotshot, like he doesn't need anyone else (the fall of the sector 7 plate alone proved how easily he could have lost everyone in AVALANCHE), could be a way of dealing with this.

Sephiroth could play some kind of role in this, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility of his coldness being emotional defense. Especially since it's something he's been doing since he was a child, before he was trying to be a SOLDIER.

Kid Cloud: Tifa always used to be with this three-some.
Tifa: ...That's right.
Kid Cloud: I used to think...they were all stupid.
Tifa: What!?
Kid Cloud: You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing.
Tifa: But we were children, back then.
Kid Cloud: ...I know. I'm the one that was stupid. I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group. Then later... I began to think I was different... That I was different from those immature kids. That then... maybe...
Shadow Cloud: Just maybe, they would invite me... I thought that might happen, so I hang around...

He's dismissive of everyone, acts like he's ten times better than them, but still hangs around. Why? Because he wants to get in the group and doesn't have the social skills to get in. It's in reaction to being rejected. Toss in his anger mismanagement (it's not just Tifa who remembers him getting in fights, he recounts it in the Lifestream) and you've got the childhood version of the "ex-SOLDIER" jerk who picks fights with Barret but sticks around with AVALANCHE when Tifa asks him to, even though he gives her a hard time about it. He wants to be in the group, but this time he doesn't have the emotional (or mental, jeez) stability to feel like he belongs.

I don't think think Zack's contribution to Cloud's persona extends far beyond mannerisms and the story about being an ex-SOLDIER first class turned mercenary. Whenever people compare them, it's in ways that are just surface deep: "the way you walk, talk..." "I heard this story from my friend, Zack..."