Concerning #tls... a community rant

[Fangu]

Originally I was going to make a thread in Crazy shit that happens on Skype but I thought it might as well be a thread on its own.

This is sort of a signal boost. It's based on what I wrote here.

We've been talking about the 'death of the IRC' for some time now, but not been able to fix it. I haven't been thinking about it either - I've just accepted that people are on Skype now, and that it's fine as long as people are invited in.

It was only upon leaving the chat I realised the hassle of the inviting thing. When not invited back I started thinking I wasn't *welcome* back. I was not free to come and go as I liked - I had to ask someone to be invited back in. So to anyone saying 'omg this is just a giant misunderstanding, just ask someone to invite you', this is not what this is about: I always said people aren't going to ask to be invited into a secluded chat. It needs to be publicly available to function as an official chat.

I've been doing my share of getting people in there - since it is a chat that sort of replaced #tls - but from what I gather, I seem to be the only person to consistently ask new (or, semi-new) and active members if they want in. It's what I wrote in the post linked: People aren't invited. People forget to ask new people to join. The Skype chat is only signal boosted when there's a specific event going on. So in conclusion, the current Skype group chat works as a secluded part of TLS and can no longer be seen as part of TLS.

Why is this a problem? It's not, really.

But we're running the risk of missing out on a few things.

Several new members have upped their TLS posting after being active in #tls. Shademp's Unused Text series were featured in the unofficial Final Fantasy 25th anniversary magazine after the editor of that piece (Alex Donaldson) entered #tls. The TLS member from Interbooks Co. who is running the petition for translating the Ultimanias seeked advice in #tls before writing his thread on the forums.

I was in the chat of the Dragon Age Wiki the other day - and man, some (but not all!) of those people are clearly uninterested in meeting new people - which is, basically, being unintersted in new opportunities. New people could mean new writers, new developers, new something, which is good for the site. TLS survives by people's interest in it.

Why should you care? If you don't, nothing wrong with that. What I'm merely doing is raising awareness. There might not be a specific solution to this problem, it might not even be a problem we're interested in solving. I know a handful of people who're going to say right away 'olol who cares it's the Internet', but it's not you I'm addressing. I'm addressing those who are interested in problems related to TLS as a community, and potentially missed opportunities because of no functioning public easy point of contact.

Not everyone is interested in this problem, and that's fine. I just think it deserves a signal boost.

Myself - I'll try staying in #tls more often. (Work shut the port for using a client, lame ass folks.) Publicly open chats is a good thing. Ours is here.

 

[Geostigma]

I didnt even realize it was supposed to be an official part of TLS

I just thought it was a bunch of buddies chatting on skype lol. I mean has it ever been voiced that thats what its intention is?

And if so Skype is an awful place to hold that kind of chat environment lol. It really gets wonky when a certain amount of people have joined the group and on top of this 1 person is capable of breaking it as well (I'm sure several people know what I'm referencing here)

 

[Fangu]

It started out as at least semi-official, since it was born with the Final Fantasy IX community playthrough. The chat being an official part of TLS was sort of the argument that made it 'okay' that people do all their '#tls rant' in there instead of in #tls. The arguments were that the IRC/#tls is hard to use, and 'we're all in here now anyway, and anyone can join, they just need to be added by someone'. I should probably look up some links for that discussion but I think it was in some #tls thread

But it's interesting that that's how you see it. It's what it's become anyway, if that isn't how it was labeled when it was started/ as time went on.

 

[Geostigma]

Fair enough.

I just never really thought about it as being a part of TLS in any capacity other then it having TLS members on it.

Also I recall once there being a huge skype convo around the time there was a huge drama between a certain group of people and the IRC chat. After the convo where we all talked it all out we came to the consensus that having a ton of people on skype chatting was cool.

I afk for a year and when I come back there is a skype chat

Also about you leaving and not being invited back in. I know you said not to bring up the whole "well you can ask to join again" thing but just to bring it up. Maybe people didnt notice you actually left?

If you have your skype settings a certain way you wont even see the list of people in the chat and if they were afk when you left then its likely only 1 or two people would notice and everyone else would have to scroll up to find out lol.

I do see what your getting at about it needing to be more open. This is definitely true.. but skype is not the platform to do that on.

Its just to easy to break. A few months ago 1 person unknowingly broke the chat for 8+ hours. Adding more and more people to the chat will just increase the chances of having that happen again.

Not to mention we actually have to remove people from time to time just to have calls on that chat or are forced to create side chats for calls =/

 

[Octo]

That's a good point Gabe, skype just isn't practical when there is like...more than 6 people involved, and not just to do with slowdown and lag (and whatever the proper terms are) but just imagine a room with 20+ people in it all trying to talk to each other at once.

I mean Irc can get hard to follow when there are loads of people in there, but it's a lot easier than a Skype/voice chat.

 

[Lex]

The Skype chat that was created as part of the IX community playthrough doesn't function as a voice chat anymore anyway, there are too many people in the chat so the button is automatically disabled. I'm not sure what the cap is, maybe 15 people or something?

Anyway you know I'm a #tls lover so I'll log in there now. We almost had it going again a while ago but then it died again.

 

[Telcontar]

make #tls part of the forum. like copypasta the client thing below this forum.

it currently sucks because its on a separate page.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It needs to be on a separate page. We used to have a shoutbox at the bottom of the forum homepage and it was a terrible drain on resources. The forum was going down every other day.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I've never liked Skype as much as IRC. The fact that it isn't accessible to anyone who wants to go in is part of the reason for this, but I just enjoy IRC more with its statistics and the ability to run bots and other similar things.

 

[Sprites]

Totally agree with Fangs on this one.

Every time I go on IRC it's ALWAYS dead it's sorta disheartening that it doesn't get used to chat on anymore, for me when I was back home I was limited alot in using Skype and the IRC was always empty so I felt like I was missing out on stuff. In my opinion IRC is useful in that sense too especially if you have trouble with access to Skype.

I 'd prefer to use it too as an insta-forum almost like when a piece of news comes through or something it's also kinda cool to chat there about it instead of waiting for a forum response.

Skype itself is great for playthroughs because well most people need their hands for the gaming and having the option to speak while gaming is cool, but anything else I think the chat would be better

Edit: I meant to say I don't see how it's a problem that the chat is on a separate page it's still accessible through the TLS site and just open two browser Windows then its no big deal, it's no different than having Skype open to chat by typing and a web page open. The link to the chat is right on the forum page too.

 

[Cthulhu]

FWIW, I thought you left the chat because I / we said something wrong / insensitive and you were pissed off; with that in mind I figured you'd take the initiative to get asked back in (it's easy enough). Alternatively you could've popped in your feisu in #tls, I'm pretty much always there (although my work client fails to automatically log in sometimes).

Re: technical shit, having the TLS chat on the forums main page shouldn't be a big load on the server, our server doesn't handle the IRC chat thing and IRC is probably a lot less heavy on a server than shoutboxes are (since they don't store their poasts in a database... then again, shoutboxes can store their shit in memory too, no reason to permanently store that shit, and it could simply write a log to the file system if there was a need for retention). However, most if not all clients require users to actively log in; if it was set to auto, the IRC would be full of 'user_1337 entered the room' and such.

Re: it being a hassle to run IRC, first it's not, second there's several people that can't go on skype because it completely pwns their computer thanks to it being shit. I mean suboptimal.

Maybe we should just write a guide on how to install a valid IRC client that, like Skype, also starts up automagically when the computerer does - I actually think that may be a major factor as to why skype is more popular than IRC, it just goes up when your computer does and IRC usually takes an extra action. But it's simple enough to have it automatically start up and join #tls.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yeah, do that please. I'd much rather have the IRC be popular again.

 

[Tennyo]

Yeah, every time I go into the IRC there is no one in there. If there would actually be people in there from time to time I might frequent it more.

Then again I don't know if I'll have as much time to do so as I used to, but maybe now and again.

I also agree completely with Fangu on the Skype thing. It's extremely awkward to message someone and ask to be let it. Very extremely. :/

 

[Ghost X]

We need to have a Skype chat request thread pinned .

 

[Ⓐaron]

By the way, people who go into IRC need to stay in for more than a few minutes. Frequently I get back and notice someone was in but didn't stay in long enough for me to notice they were in there. I don't always notice the channel was highlighted either, since I have other channels open as well.

In other words, if you come into the channel and no one responds immediately, that doesn't mean no one will ever respond. It just might take awhile for us to notice someone was in the channel. :<

 

[Fangu]

^ This. Stay for at least 10 minutes, preferably say something, and chances someone will notice is bigger!

I'm logging in whenever I can now, but the problem is - work is about wrapping up work plus I'm generally spending less time online because of that whole nurturing partner thing. There's a chance I'll be more online next week, in which case I'll try to stay logged in.


And now for Fangu's unpopular not-pussyfooting-about saying it as it is opinion:

People need to choose #tls. I'm not saying the Skype chat needs to close, but people need to be aware that by choosing to uphold a conversation in a group chat with invited friends, they are choosing a private chat over a public one. Which isn't a problem - but be aware that the rumours, paranoia and segregation is what blew up this place two years ago. If you tear down the walls, you are helping out creating a better community.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I'd say give it at least half an hour. I've not noticed people said something for even longer than that, even.

But yeah, I agree people just need to stay in the chatroom as a general rule.

 

[Lex]

People need to choose #tls. I'm not saying the Skype chat needs to close, but people need to be aware that by choosing to uphold a conversation in a group chat with invited friends, they are choosing a private chat over a public one. Which isn't a problem - but be aware that the rumours, paranoia and segregation is what blew up this place two years ago. If you tear down the walls, you are helping out creating a better community.

I think the use of #tls exacerbated the drama before actually, that's probably part of the reason people now feel more comfortable on Skype. Also let's avoid talk of past drama XD.

I don't have much to say other than I want #tls to be active again so I'll do my part when I'm around to be logged in and chat. You know how much I love our good ol' IRC, it's where I first started chatting to you and Yop <3. Also memories of the drunk nights and Sephibot and stuff.

 

[Geostigma]

#TLS was the excuse to make drama, not the cause of it.

Certain dramacats just look for any excuse to moan.

 

[Fangu]

I think the use of #tls exacerbated the drama before actually, that's probably part of the reason people now feel more comfortable on Skype. Also let's avoid talk of past drama XD.

I agree on said avoidance, I just want to add: It wouldn't have made a difference if #tls was a group Skype chat. The issue was of 'turf'. Anyway let's not kid ourselves and think we're Anything Special that prevents any form of drama happening again. My point is that if you stick people in the same room, people are bound to have less reason for being suspicious than if you divide them in two. (Or three.)

Anyway what I'm saying is, I believe people should talk to the people they feel most comfortable with, anywhere they'd like, but we should push #tls as an open channel and first priority chat - for most members and for most chat.

Also memories of the drunk nights and Sephibot and stuff.

I miss Flint

 

[Tennyo]

By the way, people who go into IRC need to stay in for more than a few minutes. Frequently I get back and notice someone was in but didn't stay in long enough for me to notice they were in there. I don't always notice the channel was highlighted either, since I have other channels open as well.

In other words, if you come into the channel and no one responds immediately, that doesn't mean no one will ever respond. It just might take awhile for us to notice someone was in the channel. :<

The thing is though, who wants to wait? I've left the IRC open on my browser for hours before with no response. Either that or I'll say, "Hi," then two hours later one of the users logged in will respond, "Hey, what's up?" But by then I'm no longer paying attention, until I notice a half hour or hour later and say, "Not much, you?" and so on and so on. If I want to chat with someone like that I'll leave them a note in their user comments.

Not that it's good or bad, but it is what it is. If people don't want to use IRC they don't have to, but if people want IRC to be popular again it's going to take a concious effort from all sides. No one wants to sit in a quiet chat waiting for people who may or may not ever respond.

Maybe it's time to call a spade a spade and admit that the IRC is dead.

But maybe I'm just becoming overly cynical in my old age

 

[Ⓐaron]

@IRC drama, I'm with Gabe in that it's not the channel's fault and would have occurred with or without it. I don't think you can put too much blame on any one faction for how things turned out but I'm pretty sure that if people had been on Skype it would've just been worse because there'd have been an exclusivity to it that isn't present on IRC, which anyone can use, whereas people have to be invited into the Skype chat.

@wait, that's a good reason to get a dedicated IRC client that will highlight when there are new messages.

 

[Cthulhu]

@Tenny, yeah I can recognise that problem; I'm thinking the Skype chat is different with that because there's other people around. We've got a few people there (Ami and Carlie, mostly) that usually chunter a lot or just post their random shit. I sometimes chuck a string of random reddit shit there, IDK if that's appreciated . With that though, and I think this is another important factor of irc vs skype, is that the skype chat has - or looks like - it has a bigger audience. Sure, usually the vast majority of people in there is offline, but it doesn't matter, I still feel validated.

tl;dr most of us actually don't have much to talk about

 

[Splintered]

Oh I forgot about irc, I've been meaning to get back on but I totally forgot about it. I've always been more fond of irc because it's what I'm use to but I just have a feeling that irc just isn't as popularly used as skype is anymore.

 

[Tennyo]

@getting an IRC client:

That still doesn't address the issue of inactivity. A client won't alert you to a conversation that isn't taking place.