Curious: what do you think about that should be Zack the franchise's main character?

[Gym Leader Devil]

There is not enough "fuck no!" in all the world for me to be able to properly answer the question this thread poses

 

[Wolfmania]

I don't know why, but these answers seem to please me greatly!

Maybe I've just been hanging with the wrong crowd.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

If anything, Zack would be the series's man character if he had lived. He's got the personality and mental stability to do it. In fact, TOG could very easily have gone better if he had survived. You could say that FFVII explores what happens when the traditional hero died too soon to fix everything.

I don't think I'd hate having Zack as the main protagonist instead of Cloud, it would just be different.

Fanfic rec: The Difference One Life Makes it's a completed! re-write of TOG if Zack and Cloud had survived. Lets just say that nearly every single main event in the game does take place, if with different outcomes, and sometime not even then

 

[Roger]

If Zack was the main charcter everything would be different. He's a clearcut hero. Goodbye ecoterrorism, revenge plots, being manipulated by Sephiroth, being captured by Shinra, failing to save Aerith, lovetriangles, handing over the Black Materia, ect.

It most assurdely would not be FFVII if Zack wasn't dead.

 

[jazzflower92]

Yeah,in every Zack survives story he changes a lot of things surrounding him.In general he makes things a little bit brighter and less bleak giving possiblity that there can be hope in this world.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

And then, because Zack was the one trying to save the world instead of Cloud, Sephiroth totally won and everyone died horribly. The end.

 

[Jarlix]

haha. I don't think it's a terrible stretch to assume that Cloud's victory wasn't at all diluted by the fact Zack could have have resolved things as easy as he did or easier, in fact the more difficult it may have been for him the more remarkable it was that he stepped up to rival and arguably surpass his 'inspiration.'

I relate with Cloud because I've had a lot of friends with less moral occlusion than me, I've even had the same borderline schizophrenia he's weathered and some people have served as go getting role models that I feel mentored me on how to deal with my own life better.

Replace his Jenova fits with pseudo seizures and inane panic attacks, viola. I'm Cloud.

I've never identified with and loved a protagonist as much as I loved Cloud or Fei.

So long story short, as awesome as Zack was, I'm not entirely sure I'd be content with either his presence in the party or as the leading role.

 

[jazzflower92]

Cloud's role in the game factors into the deconstruction theme going on.The game at first wants you to think he is what he says then pulls all your expectations from beneath you.

While Zack's position as a hero is played straight and would have made things less deconstructive in nature.

Cloud is more likely to be a main character in a Greek tragedy while Zack would be the main character in a Greek comedy.

Comedy used to mean a story that would end happy while a tragedy is a story that ended bleakly or bittersweet.

 

[Jarlix]

precisely. Cloud isn't Squall and Zack isn't Laguna but there's a noted similarity in how they mentioned Laguna was designed as a more traditional FF hero whereas Squall accented him by being a more contrary hero.

 

[Wolfmania]

And then, because Zack was the one trying to save the world instead of Cloud, Sephiroth totally won and everyone died horribly. The end.

This had me rolling on the floor.

But there is kind of a point here. As strong willed as Zack is, I don't think it would've been possible for him to emulate alot of the stuff Cloud did in the OG. He just dosen't...have Cloud's will. And that's really not a slight against Zack, as much as I think it's an acknowledgement of the creator's clear-cut showing that Cloud is more willed and perseverant than anyone else, in the end.

I think that was one of the points of it all. Sephiroth has always had this absolutely huge will, so much so that even death couldn't take him, yet this emotinally wrecked guy, in the end, surmounts even that in the Lifestream battle, because he tries.

And by God, does Cloud try to do better.

 

[jazzflower92]

I think when Cloud stop pretending who he wanted to be and just be himself that he gained the ability to become a hero.At the beginning of the game he was living a illusion of what he always want to be and it slowly shattered to reveal it was all a sham.Each piece of the image is broken to put back together what he truly is and how he must comes to terms with himself mentally and emotionally.

 

[Jarlix]

This had me rolling on the floor.

But there is kind of a point here. As strong willed as Zack is, I don't think it would've been possible for him to emulate alot of the stuff Cloud did in the OG. He just dosen't...have Cloud's will. And that's really not a slight against Zack, as much as I think it's an acknowledgement of the creator's clear-cut showing that Cloud is more willed and perseverant than anyone else, in the end.

I think that was one of the points of it all. Sephiroth has always had this absolutely huge will, so much so that even death couldn't take him, yet this emotinally wrecked guy, in the end, surmounts even that in the Lifestream battle, because he tries.

And by God, does Cloud try to do better.

Any specific examples of Cloud's will alone triumphing against insurmountable odds? Besides the last battle. Would you say the lifestream segment is the biggest point for it? I would like to have a list of all the times his force of will wins out.

 

[Wolfmania]

Any specific examples of Cloud's will alone triumphing against insurmountable odds? Besides the last battle. Would you say the lifestream segment is the biggest point for it? I would like to have a list of all the times his force of will wins out.

I don't think I'm a really good person to list this, but I'll try my best.

* I guess an instance that you can count, loosely, is how Cloud was barely bruised after falling on mount Nibel with Tifa. No normal kids should've survived that fall, talk about insurmountable odds when you have no enhancements. But, again, I don't really know what to make of this scene.

* Remember when Cloud, completely taking a sword in his hand for the first time, defeated two AVALANCHE operatives with a single swing, and later helped the resident Turk take out two AVALANCHE Ravens? Talk about what should be an unfair fight.

* During the Nibelheim Incident are the best early examples. Not only is Cloud stated to wield the Buster Sword expertly, when it should be impossible for him(since only a SOLDIER can wield it, apparently), he actually manages to stab through Sephiroth fully -- sword-lock with him for a time -- and out of sheer will, later pick him up and throw him down a reactor. Note that Cloud has absolutely zero physical enhancements at this point. That's insane. However, he was pretty emotional, so it makes sense.

* Obviously, we must count the instance where Cloud completely breaks through Sephiroth's mind control, when he's about to kill Aerith herself.

Cloud's will does break later in the game, and he needs a little push from a certain girl to mend his mind back.

* What I consider my favorite moment in the game, when Cloud, after his mind is returned to it's wholesome state, remembers everything. Remembers his promise to Zack. How he failed him. How Zack technically charged Cloud with protecting Aerith(at least it seems so in the Japanese version of Crisis Core). How he had come close to killing Aerith. How he had been living a lie, most of all. And he finally evolves and says that he can't keep on pretending, can't keep on living in the illusion anymore. He can't and won't be someone else, he has to be his own person. That kind of trauma should've broken someone with that many mental issues. But nope. Not Cloud.

* Certainly one of the best, when Cloud enters the Lifestream after his physical battle is over, and he just takes on a one-on-one with Sephiroth's soul/will -- swiming in the Lifestream, no less! It should been impossible for two souls to even maintain consistency in it in the first place without being crushed! and yet again, Cloud proves his perseverance.

* There probably are more in AC, but I haven't watched that movie in such a long time.

* Last, but certainly not least, Cloud's response to Sephiroth. I think this one is even immortalized in the Ultimania's.

Cloud answers Sephiroth’s proposal with his own perseverance. Cloud regards what is right, as Sephiroth holds Cloud in place, both standing in each other’s way as fated rivals.

~~

There's probably alot more. I just have terrible memory. Feel free to add or correct.