The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Wow, that is wacky. Good work.
DCFFVII Research Thread
- Thread starter Shademp
- Start date
Shademp
420
- Because I couldn't find a guide online saying which Memory Capsule corresponds to which DC PlayOnline cutscene (I may have imagined there being such a guide out there, at least in English) I am checking each capsule on my own. While doing so, I am writing down notes for each capsule and taking snapshots of the capsules and their map locations. I am about 70% finished and will soon have everything ready not just to present which capsules contain the PlayOnline scenes, but I will have the resources to easily make a complete DC Memory Capsule guide for TLS.
- While going through the game and shooting capsules I take the time to experiment, as you saw in my post about the easy method for getting Critical Hits in Chapter 6. I reckon that the game expects you to get many critical hits via the gatling gun segment, by repeatedly shooting the noses of the choppers and the final chopper in particular seeing as it has a very high HP. But this method is out of the question because it means leaving the WRO soldiers open for the missiles, when I'd much rather destroy the choppers quickly and ensure that I can get my precious Guard N Barrel. I stand by my conclusion that the gatling gun segments are poorly designed and unfairly difficult. For the most part you are better off avoiding the gatling guns.
- You will have noticed that I divide up the eighth chapter into Chapter 8-1 and 8-2. The first part is the Train Graveyard segment while the second part is the Central Complex segment.
Way back in page 12 I revealed some esoteric bits about the WRO Squad in Chapter 8-1. I now discovered a new glitch related to this squad consisting of five people.
When this sidequest of saving the WRO squad starts out, you have 4 out of 5 members. To get the fifth, you must retrieve the coward. To get the glitch, DON'T retrieve this soldier.
Later on, after the final scene with the squad leader (who also happens to be the sister of Wedge or Biggs), let the whole squad die by the hands of Deepground. BUT WAIT! Who is among them? The shaking coward whom you did not actually retrieve! How odd. When the four soldiers you brought with you have died, the Status menu tells you that 0/5 squad members have been saved. Yet...the coward is still standing in the area!
Proceed until you get to the last EM barricade before you meet the WRO Commander. Wait for the red saucers to appear so that you can defeat them and get the cardkey. Except...you'll be waiting forever because the red saucers WILL NEVER SPAWN! A glitch where you can't proceed has been triggered.
What has happened is that the game is waiting for one or more WRO members to arrive to the area and trigger the red saucers to appear. After all, the scared guy is still left standing, so the chapter stage is waiting for his cue. Although the scared guy will have stopped shaking like a scaredy cat at this point, he still won't move from his earlier spot. After all, he doesn't exist, according to the Status menu. All the squad members already died!
Only if the game knows 100% that all the squad members are dead will Vincent's presence be alone to trigger the red saucers so that you can defeat them and get the Cardkey to proceed. Because the game is tricked to believe that a soldier is left when in fact there isn't (kind of), we get this obscure glitch.
EDIT: Heh, this is neat. In this person's upload of the DC cutscenes, they failed to save the Squad Leader. Yet the cutscene's voice tracks act in the end as though she is still present. This is no doubt related to the voice-bug I discovered on my own back in page 12.
- The reason I allowed all the WRO guys in Chapter 8-1 to die (both the five-member squad and the subsequent nine-member group) was to see if the helping WRO soldiers in Chapter 8-2 will still pop up to help. I expected Vincent to be completely alone in this run, but actually the same number of assisting WRO soldiers arrived anyway! Your rescue efforts through Chapter 8-1 does not affect anything in Chapter 8-2.
You don't have to save the lives of the soldiers in 8-2 who help you out. Their deaths will not affect your ranking. The only soldiers who affect your ranking are those who help you reach the first G Report.
- While going through the game and shooting capsules I take the time to experiment, as you saw in my post about the easy method for getting Critical Hits in Chapter 6. I reckon that the game expects you to get many critical hits via the gatling gun segment, by repeatedly shooting the noses of the choppers and the final chopper in particular seeing as it has a very high HP. But this method is out of the question because it means leaving the WRO soldiers open for the missiles, when I'd much rather destroy the choppers quickly and ensure that I can get my precious Guard N Barrel. I stand by my conclusion that the gatling gun segments are poorly designed and unfairly difficult. For the most part you are better off avoiding the gatling guns.
- You will have noticed that I divide up the eighth chapter into Chapter 8-1 and 8-2. The first part is the Train Graveyard segment while the second part is the Central Complex segment.
Way back in page 12 I revealed some esoteric bits about the WRO Squad in Chapter 8-1. I now discovered a new glitch related to this squad consisting of five people.
When this sidequest of saving the WRO squad starts out, you have 4 out of 5 members. To get the fifth, you must retrieve the coward. To get the glitch, DON'T retrieve this soldier.
Later on, after the final scene with the squad leader (who also happens to be the sister of Wedge or Biggs), let the whole squad die by the hands of Deepground. BUT WAIT! Who is among them? The shaking coward whom you did not actually retrieve! How odd. When the four soldiers you brought with you have died, the Status menu tells you that 0/5 squad members have been saved. Yet...the coward is still standing in the area!
Proceed until you get to the last EM barricade before you meet the WRO Commander. Wait for the red saucers to appear so that you can defeat them and get the cardkey. Except...you'll be waiting forever because the red saucers WILL NEVER SPAWN! A glitch where you can't proceed has been triggered.
What has happened is that the game is waiting for one or more WRO members to arrive to the area and trigger the red saucers to appear. After all, the scared guy is still left standing, so the chapter stage is waiting for his cue. Although the scared guy will have stopped shaking like a scaredy cat at this point, he still won't move from his earlier spot. After all, he doesn't exist, according to the Status menu. All the squad members already died!
Only if the game knows 100% that all the squad members are dead will Vincent's presence be alone to trigger the red saucers so that you can defeat them and get the Cardkey to proceed. Because the game is tricked to believe that a soldier is left when in fact there isn't (kind of), we get this obscure glitch.
EDIT: Heh, this is neat. In this person's upload of the DC cutscenes, they failed to save the Squad Leader. Yet the cutscene's voice tracks act in the end as though she is still present. This is no doubt related to the voice-bug I discovered on my own back in page 12.
- The reason I allowed all the WRO guys in Chapter 8-1 to die (both the five-member squad and the subsequent nine-member group) was to see if the helping WRO soldiers in Chapter 8-2 will still pop up to help. I expected Vincent to be completely alone in this run, but actually the same number of assisting WRO soldiers arrived anyway! Your rescue efforts through Chapter 8-1 does not affect anything in Chapter 8-2.
You don't have to save the lives of the soldiers in 8-2 who help you out. Their deaths will not affect your ranking. The only soldiers who affect your ranking are those who help you reach the first G Report.
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i don't know if you would still need it, but there is a japanese guide online for the multiplayer memory capsules (where they are and which scenes they unlock)? no pictures or anything, but the location of each one
Shademp
420
I'm good but thanks anyway
Here are the capsules that unlock DC Multiplayer cutscenes. I'll reserve detailed descriptions for the version and/or capsule guide.
Antecedents - Scene 1
Antecedents - Scene 2
Antecedents - Scene 3
Antecedents - Scene 4
Antecedents - Scene 5
Antecedents - Scene 6
Antecedents - Scene 7
Antecedents - Scene 8
Antecedents - Scene 9
Antecedents - Scene 10 (will get better snapshot for this one)
Antecedents - Scene 11
Antecedents - Scene 12
Antecedents - Scene 13
Antecedents - Scene 2
Antecedents - Scene 3
Antecedents - Scene 4
Antecedents - Scene 5
Antecedents - Scene 6
Antecedents - Scene 7
Antecedents - Scene 8
Antecedents - Scene 9
Antecedents - Scene 10 (will get better snapshot for this one)
Antecedents - Scene 11
Antecedents - Scene 12
Antecedents - Scene 13
Apart from two capsules I need to redo snapshots for, as well as some capsules that deserve providing some more snapshots for alternate positions to shoot them from, I am pretty much finished with gathering the resources for a full DC Memory Capsules guide.
Shademp
420
- Tested out in Chapter 11 to NOT kill any of the gargoyles in the three 'Kill Gargoyles' sidequests. I was thinking that maybe by avoiding them, there would end up being more gargoyles in the Dragonfly PT battle. However, there was no increase in the number of gargoyles, neither on the platform nor around the globe when you take a ride on a gargoyle. Indeed I noticed no change to the chapter/stage whatsoever. That's another 'Game Over' or 'Worst Performance' scenario done on the checklist. I have mostly tested out these scenarios in DC:International though and it's not impossible that there are more consequences from losing or performing badly in JORG.
- Don't remember if I already noticed this one way back, but I believe this is Tifa's OG art silhouette in Edge.
Potentially a case of seeing something that is not there, but my gut tells me that this is Tifa.
OG art turned white:
I wonder what "Jet Spice" could possibly be intended as. I don't know much about perfumes but what comes to mind is the fragrance for men "Old Spice". Spicy perfumes appear to be a thing for women as well. "Jet Spice" doesn't appear to be an official brand but I reckon it's intended to be a spicy perfume or fragrance. EDIT: Or a culinary spice.
I have no idea what to make of the O.K.I. thing to the left.
- Don't remember if I already noticed this one way back, but I believe this is Tifa's OG art silhouette in Edge.
Potentially a case of seeing something that is not there, but my gut tells me that this is Tifa.
OG art turned white:
I wonder what "Jet Spice" could possibly be intended as. I don't know much about perfumes but what comes to mind is the fragrance for men "Old Spice". Spicy perfumes appear to be a thing for women as well. "Jet Spice" doesn't appear to be an official brand but I reckon it's intended to be a spicy perfume or fragrance. EDIT: Or a culinary spice.
I have no idea what to make of the O.K.I. thing to the left.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
That is definitely Tifa. Great find!
Shademp
420
VERSION DIFFERENCE! In the room where you defeat 100 DG soldiers there was a correction made to the lighting of a part of the walls. I have only checked this in JORG and International. Will check NTSC-US and PAL sometime in the future. Will also keep in mind when I play JORG to see that the odd lighting/coloring wasn't just a one-time glitch.
I expect that between versions there were multiple microscopic changes made that I will never notice. The category of textures and lighting is one where I am the least likely to spot any differences, unless they REALLY stand out like in the example above. In the original Japanese version the blue and green lighting do not have a matching source so it makes sense that these parts of the walls should only be somewhat shaded.
North-east side of the room:
On the other side, this odd lighting/coloring does not appear, which is also consistent with the International version:
South-west part of the room, close to the entrance/exit:
On the other side, this odd lighting/coloring does not appear, which is also consistent with the International version:
South-west part of the room, close to the entrance/exit:
I expect that between versions there were multiple microscopic changes made that I will never notice. The category of textures and lighting is one where I am the least likely to spot any differences, unless they REALLY stand out like in the example above. In the original Japanese version the blue and green lighting do not have a matching source so it makes sense that these parts of the walls should only be somewhat shaded.
Shademp
420
- It just occurred to me that if you put Religious Imagery Goggles on, when Genesis first appears he looks like Jesus on the cross. He even has his head tilted to the side. The pose is generic enough to be a coincidence, but those who have read the plot draft to FGC may find this religious connotation ironic.
The fact that Gackt released a single called Jesus is obviously a coincidence, as it was first released on December 4, 2008 apparently. No connection to DC and Genesis in other words.
EDIT: I can't hear you over your obvious symbolism!
- Most likely I won't be able to release a DC Version Guide in time for this Tuesday (DC's 10th anniversary) but I still aim to get it published within two weeks from now. We'll see how far I can push myself.
The fact that Gackt released a single called Jesus is obviously a coincidence, as it was first released on December 4, 2008 apparently. No connection to DC and Genesis in other words.
EDIT: I can't hear you over your obvious symbolism!
- Most likely I won't be able to release a DC Version Guide in time for this Tuesday (DC's 10th anniversary) but I still aim to get it published within two weeks from now. We'll see how far I can push myself.
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i have to listen to the song jesus now because i remember that i like it 
Shademp
420
- Confirmed that the green and blue lighting in the "Defeat 100 DG Soldiers" room is not present in NTSC-US. Revisited JORG and confirmed that the odd lighting was not just a one-time thing. Here is a better shot of the south-west corner.
- Damage calculation: A fact about the machine gun and gatling gun that I realized a long time ago but maybe forgot to write about is how it calculates damage. I obviously don't know the exact formulas and there are still some question marks, but here's what I know... When you wail away at an enemy using either a gatling gun or the Griffon (machine gun), you will see a continuous stream of damage numbers above an enemy's head. For each consecutive hit the new damage number will be higher than the previous.
At first one may think that this damage is additive and that adding each displayed number amounts to the total damage done on the enemy. NOT SO! Say that you see these numbers pop up: 20, 30, 50, 100 and 200. The damage you have achieved is not 400 (20 + 30 + 50 + 100 + 200) but in fact 200.
That's why it can look so weird when you try to defeat a chopper that has, say, roughly 1500 HP. You keep seeing these big numbers that you think should be adding up for each hit, like 1200 + 1300 + 1400 + 1500, but the damage is only finally dealt either when you reach the enemy's remaining HP value or when your shots no longer land. When you don't know this, it is absolutely baffling that one or two placed rifle shots can destroy a chopper, when the gatling gun takes such a long time to finish the chopper.
The griffon shoots considerably slower in JORG, so I wonder if the slowness of the machine gun in that version actually makes the damage additive, rather than the final successive shot being the only one that counts in the final damage calculation. Will research this at some point.
- Maybe it is because English is not my first langauge or because I sometimes don't see what is right in front of me because I'm busy investigating each grain of sand, but I only realized a week or so ago why the names Griffon and Hydra were chosen for the machine gun and rifle, respectively, in DC. They are the names of mythical creatures. >___> COME ON BRAIN! I just assumed that these were common names for machine guns and rifles, but no, the names were chosen to fit thematically with Vincent.
I mean... Come on, how can I be this stupid?! XD
So, umm...
- Damage calculation: A fact about the machine gun and gatling gun that I realized a long time ago but maybe forgot to write about is how it calculates damage. I obviously don't know the exact formulas and there are still some question marks, but here's what I know... When you wail away at an enemy using either a gatling gun or the Griffon (machine gun), you will see a continuous stream of damage numbers above an enemy's head. For each consecutive hit the new damage number will be higher than the previous.
At first one may think that this damage is additive and that adding each displayed number amounts to the total damage done on the enemy. NOT SO! Say that you see these numbers pop up: 20, 30, 50, 100 and 200. The damage you have achieved is not 400 (20 + 30 + 50 + 100 + 200) but in fact 200.
That's why it can look so weird when you try to defeat a chopper that has, say, roughly 1500 HP. You keep seeing these big numbers that you think should be adding up for each hit, like 1200 + 1300 + 1400 + 1500, but the damage is only finally dealt either when you reach the enemy's remaining HP value or when your shots no longer land. When you don't know this, it is absolutely baffling that one or two placed rifle shots can destroy a chopper, when the gatling gun takes such a long time to finish the chopper.
The griffon shoots considerably slower in JORG, so I wonder if the slowness of the machine gun in that version actually makes the damage additive, rather than the final successive shot being the only one that counts in the final damage calculation. Will research this at some point.
- Maybe it is because English is not my first langauge or because I sometimes don't see what is right in front of me because I'm busy investigating each grain of sand, but I only realized a week or so ago why the names Griffon and Hydra were chosen for the machine gun and rifle, respectively, in DC. They are the names of mythical creatures. >___> COME ON BRAIN! I just assumed that these were common names for machine guns and rifles, but no, the names were chosen to fit thematically with Vincent.
I mean... Come on, how can I be this stupid?! XD
So, umm...
HAIL HYDRA!
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ForceStealer
Double Growth
heehee, yes, that was probably fairly obvious to most That said, I was never quite sure about the choice of Griffon. I mean Hydra fit with the Cerberus theme of being three-headed mythical beasts. But griffons only have one head... Did they just run out of 3-headed monsters? I find that hard to believe. Or does the Griffon in fact only have one barrel?
However, I was totally unaware that the damage you see from the machine gun was cumulative. I definitely was under the impression that each successive hit you could score with a machine gun would do more damage. I feel cheated...
That said, I was never quite sure about the choice of Griffon. I mean Hydra fit with the Cerberus theme of being three-headed mythical beasts. But griffons only have one head... Did they just run out of 3-headed monsters? I find that hard to believe. Or does the Griffon in fact only have one barrel?However, I was totally unaware that the damage you see from the machine gun was cumulative. I definitely was under the impression that each successive hit you could score with a machine gun would do more damage. I feel cheated...
Shademp
420
I am probably confusing the correct wording here, but although Cerberus, Griffon and Hydra all equip barrels (Short, Normal and Long) with three heads/holes, only Cerberus (and the Model Gun series though both consume Handgun Bullets) actually consume three ammo per shot. All the other gun types consume one ammo per shot. So make of that what you will.
Shademp
420
So today is the 10th anniversary of the original Japanese release of Dirge of Cerberus. Ten years ago since FFVII fans received a game that was, to say the least, "not quite what they were looking for" and that left a cliffhanger ending that remains unresolved to this day.
Yet today of all days I take a break from DC. I think I deserve it. I'm getting close to a point where I will want to leave DC alone for an extended period, so I better take time and breathe now so I can gather the energy for a final push and get the version guide published.
A minor update is that yesterday I started recording the Event Viewer cutscenes in the International version with Japanese subtitles on. Got the first three chapters recorded so far. Looking forward to when I have a more complete set of movie folders so I can compare and spot more differences between the versions and the gameplay vs event viewer.
Yet today of all days I take a break from DC.
I think I deserve it. I'm getting close to a point where I will want to leave DC alone for an extended period, so I better take time and breathe now so I can gather the energy for a final push and get the version guide published.A minor update is that yesterday I started recording the Event Viewer cutscenes in the International version with Japanese subtitles on. Got the first three chapters recorded so far. Looking forward to when I have a more complete set of movie folders so I can compare and spot more differences between the versions and the gameplay vs event viewer.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
I still can't believe it's been ten years already. It doesn't seem that long to me, but then again, ten years ago, I was coming up to my 14th birthday. But then, it was released in english in that year along with the english version of Advent Children and the english release of KH2.
Found this little info on what Yoshinori Kitase commented on the game itself, found here.
But what gets to me is that people tend to talk about wanting this game re-released for PS4 or a HD remaster of Crisis Core(which will never happen, as Tabata pointed out blankly himself) but nothing much on a remake of Before Crisis and despite it being a mobile game, the storyline was awesome, and I've always wanted to at least see the gameplay of the three special episodes-Episode of Tseng(well, I have, but I wanna see it in CG HD), Episode of Reno(the all time favorite red-haired Turk) and Episode of Legend(I'm curious about this guy).
Not to mention Square Enix doing something about the secret ending cliff-hanger rather than just leaving it after ten years.
Found this little info on what Yoshinori Kitase commented on the game itself, found here.
But what gets to me is that people tend to talk about wanting this game re-released for PS4 or a HD remaster of Crisis Core(which will never happen, as Tabata pointed out blankly himself) but nothing much on a remake of Before Crisis and despite it being a mobile game, the storyline was awesome, and I've always wanted to at least see the gameplay of the three special episodes-Episode of Tseng(well, I have, but I wanna see it in CG HD), Episode of Reno(the all time favorite red-haired Turk) and Episode of Legend(I'm curious about this guy).
Not to mention Square Enix doing something about the secret ending cliff-hanger rather than just leaving it after ten years.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Thanks, that's cool to see that he mentioned it at any rate. But he still Kitase'd it.
Definitely agree. About the atmosphere, at least, I dunno that it's my favorite part.
People need to consult with Nojima more often
Kitase said:
Definitely agree. About the atmosphere, at least, I dunno that it's my favorite part.
Kitase said:
People need to consult with Nojima more often
Shademp
420
For anyone who doesn't understand the wrongness of Kitase's comment about Yuffie and Vincent, read this article written by Tres: When did the opening to Dirge of Cerberus take place?
Originally I disliked the sniping segment in Edge, for two reasons. One: Everything was so grey and blended into each other that I couldn't spot the snipers worth a damn. Two: I didn't realize that your best choice when this segment starts is to kill the snipers from Vincent's starting position. If you move around the snipers will spot you and kill you. You can defeat almost all of them without being spotted if you just stay put.
The greyness and dullness of Edge was especially a problem on my old TV (don't ask me what type it was: I honestly don't know). No matter my settings, Edge was a fuzzy, grey, headache-inducing eyesore. Now with my more modern TV, the whole game looks more HD-ified. Add to that the tiny upscaling effect that my Elgato Game Capture has, and now I can truly appreciate the atmosphere of Edge and I can easily spot the snipers.
I believe that in an HD version of DC, the dominating greyness of Edge would barely be a problem.
@Tashasaurous
Thank you greatly for bringing that comment to our attention. =) I am honestly surprised to see Kitase commenting on the anniversary.
Originally I disliked the sniping segment in Edge, for two reasons. One: Everything was so grey and blended into each other that I couldn't spot the snipers worth a damn. Two: I didn't realize that your best choice when this segment starts is to kill the snipers from Vincent's starting position. If you move around the snipers will spot you and kill you. You can defeat almost all of them without being spotted if you just stay put.
The greyness and dullness of Edge was especially a problem on my old TV (don't ask me what type it was: I honestly don't know). No matter my settings, Edge was a fuzzy, grey, headache-inducing eyesore. Now with my more modern TV, the whole game looks more HD-ified. Add to that the tiny upscaling effect that my Elgato Game Capture has, and now I can truly appreciate the atmosphere of Edge and I can easily spot the snipers.
I believe that in an HD version of DC, the dominating greyness of Edge would barely be a problem.
Very much agree with Kitase there. I only started liking Dirge when I learned to snipe properly in the Rains of Gehenna mission. That's where my sick addiction to this game began.
Clearly I know nothing of technology because I don't know the framerate of the final game. Doesn't the PS2 show 30 frames per second? Isn't 60 fps more of a really, really modern thing?
@Tashasaurous
Thank you greatly for bringing that comment to our attention. =) I am honestly surprised to see Kitase commenting on the anniversary.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
No problem. I found it on the KH13 Forum. I'm rather surprised Kitase even borthered in commenting on the game's anniversary, and yet, two years ago, there was no comment on the 10th anniversary on Before Crisis-Final Fantasy VII, which leaves me cold.
Next year is the 10th anniversary of Crisis Core's release in Japan along with the original game's 20th.
JBedford
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- JBed
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert either.
This probably applies to other games too, but this one I know for sure: Rapid Racer on the PS1 "One of the game's biggest selling points was that it ran at 60 frames per second". And most 2D games on earlier consoles like NES and SNES ran at 60fps.
Consoles get more and more powerful, however most games spend that power on better graphics and having more things going on at the same time.
I think people talk about frame rate more recently, but maybe that's just because gaming is more popular and console wars are easier to find. Also with PC gaming, people have computers that could play a game at 60fps, and it is objectively better, so if games can't run at that then it's something for people to complain about.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
They're snipers. You're not supposed to easily spot them, that's kind of the point. I was horrible at it, but liked it all the more for all that.
Shademp
420
In the Shera hangar, which you only get to see in cutscenes but never actually roam, there are two giant doors. They are numbered 1 and 2 respectively. Though probably not intentionally, these doors make me think of the original PlayStation 1 console.
I agree with the basic point but I still think that my original TV made the challenge unintentionally unfair.
Shademp
420
- All Event Viewer cutscenes recorded in DC:International with Japanese subtitles. My DC movie library is slowly building up...
- I have done extensive research on the Chapter 8 scene where the WRO squad is united with their commander. This is the sixth scene in the Event Viewer, so I shall refer to it as Scene_06.
In an older post I highlighted the voice clip mistake where a female voice clip is used for a male soldier. I wanted to learn more about when this mistake manifests and when it doesn't, so I set out to record all possible variations of this cutscene (in DC:International, with English subtitles). All thirty-two of them.
ALL. THIRTY-TWO. ......
Here is what I discovered.
Scene_05, where the lieutenant speaks of her brother who is either Biggs or Wedge, so far appears to have only two variations. Soldier A is invincible before Scene_05. If only Soldier A survived until that point, the scene ends with her saying "I can't believe this place is still here...". If anybody of the guys survived, it will end with one of them alerting that there are DG soldiers about. So far, the same voice clip and animations appear to be used no matter who among Soldiers B through E have survived up until that point, but I can't say with 100% certainty yet because I haven't recorded all the possible variations. Controlling which members survive and die before Scene_05 is more difficult than preparing for Scene_06.
- I have done extensive research on the Chapter 8 scene where the WRO squad is united with their commander. This is the sixth scene in the Event Viewer, so I shall refer to it as Scene_06.
In an older post I highlighted the voice clip mistake where a female voice clip is used for a male soldier. I wanted to learn more about when this mistake manifests and when it doesn't, so I set out to record all possible variations of this cutscene (in DC:International, with English subtitles). All thirty-two of them.
ALL. THIRTY-TWO. ......
Here is what I discovered.There are a total of five soldiers in this squad. The fifth is hiding and has to be retrieved. To my great joy, it is actually easy to identify each squad member by observing their idle animations, in other words their default animation when they are not registering any enemies. I chose to label them as follows...
Soldier A: The lieutenant. Recognizable as the only female member in the squad (and the only one with a red hat).
Soldier B: Idle animation has this member stare straight ahead, without turning or lifting his rifle.
Soldier C: Idle animation has this member casually look over his shoulder to the left and right, over and over.
Soldier D: Idle animation has this member on edge, with his rifle raised and aiming his sights very quickly to the left and right.
Soldier E: The "coward". Stands shaking and hugging his rifle.
Before Scene_06, anyone of these members can live or survive the barrage of DG soldiers. With each separate member having preset positions for Scene_06, that gives us a total of 32 variations to this cutscene (as far as character model placements go).
I have not bothered to look up any intuitive way of calculating the number of variations to this scene. There may be a simple math formula for this, but I feel confident in my "manually" created list (see spoiler tag below).
So who in the squad is the male member who gets a female voice clip? The answer is not simple for the moment when the members rush in and shout "Commander!". If Soldier B, C or D have been saved, a female voice clip will be used. If two among these three (any combination) have been saved, a female voice clip and then a male voice clip will play. Saving all three of these will not result in an additional voice clip. Soldier A and Soldier E have their own respective, unique voice clips.
Right before Scene_06 ends, three soldiers have a voiced line: Soldiers A, B and E. Each of them will say "Sir!". Soldier B carries the female voice clip when there should be a male voice. Soldier E, despite crouching in the corner and not saluting Vincent, will say "Sir!" (in a male voice).
In the video below I show the voice clips for when each soldier, A through E, rushes to the commander (00:00-01:10). As you can hear, soldiers B, C and D all use the same female voice clip. Notice the clear difference between the lower pitch female voice of Soldier A versus the higher pitch voice of the incorrectly placed female voice clip. From 01:10 and to the end I show the "Sir!" lines for Soldier A, B and E.
Even after Scene_06 ends and you return to gameplay, each member has a preset position in the room where they will rest.
I point this out because I think the developers made a mistake here. Despite Soldier E being the consistently shaky member before this point, the shaking animation after Scene_06 is reserved only for Soldier C.
I have not recorded all the variations for Scene_06 in JORG (and I'm not sure if I ever will) but I have recorded enough to know how the voice clips there differ from the English ones.
When you save only soldier B, C or D, a male voice clip is used. This is different from the English game(s). However, when you save the second person in this trio (any combination) a female voice clip will be used. When soldiers later salute Vincent, each voice clip matches the seeming gender of the character model. So the Japanese original has the same mistake as the later releases but to a lesser extent.
Video guide: To 0:25 I show the "Commander" voice clips of Soldier A, then B, then B and C (hear the female voice clip here), then E. From 0:25 to the end I show the voice clips of Soldier A, then B and finally E. Is it just me or is Soldier B trying way too hard to sound like the commander? XD
Although I have listed 32 variations for Scene_06, you could in a way view this scene as having two essential versions: "Anybody saved" versus "Nobody saved". These scenarios mark the biggest changes to the scene.
Nobody saved: The commander does not thank Vincent. Vincent says "If you come with me, chances are you won't make it."
Anybody saved: The commander thanks Vincent. Vincent says "If you come with me, chances are you'll all die."
This change to Vincent's line is also reflected in the Japanese voice clips, though it's a very tiny change that I don't know what it means. ("Omaiewa" becomes "Omaierawa".) Compare the subtitles and voice clips at 01:01 and 02:11 at your leisure.
I have compared both scenes side by side, both viewing and listening, and found no other spot where the subtitles or the voice clips change.
Soldier A: The lieutenant. Recognizable as the only female member in the squad (and the only one with a red hat).
Soldier B: Idle animation has this member stare straight ahead, without turning or lifting his rifle.
Soldier C: Idle animation has this member casually look over his shoulder to the left and right, over and over.
Soldier D: Idle animation has this member on edge, with his rifle raised and aiming his sights very quickly to the left and right.
Soldier E: The "coward". Stands shaking and hugging his rifle.
Before Scene_06, anyone of these members can live or survive the barrage of DG soldiers. With each separate member having preset positions for Scene_06, that gives us a total of 32 variations to this cutscene (as far as character model placements go).
I have not bothered to look up any intuitive way of calculating the number of variations to this scene. There may be a simple math formula for this, but I feel confident in my "manually" created list (see spoiler tag below).
Everybody saved: Only the 1 scenario.
- ABCDE
Nobody saved: Only the 1 scenario.
- (Nobody saved)
One member saved: 5 variations.
- A
- B
- C
- D
- E
Two survivors: 10 variations.
- AB
- AC
- AD
- AE
- BC
- BD
- BE
- CD
- CE
- DE
Three survivors: 10 variations.
- ABC
- ABD
- ABE
- ACD
- ACE
- ADE
- BCD
- BCE
- BDE
- CDE
Four survivors: 5 variations.
- ABCD
- ABCE
- ABDE
- ACDE
- BCDE
That gives us...
1 + 1 + 5 + 10 + 10 + 5 = 32
...number of variations to this scene. I am so thankful that there is no specific "order" in which you can save the soldiers, so the variations are not nearly as many as they would be if AB was not equal to BA and so on.
How was I able to unlock and record all these variations? After Scene_05, clear the area of the normal Deepground soldiers. Don't advance up the stairs and to the EM barricade until you can see that all the WRO members have entered their idle animations. Now move forward and trigger the Heavy Armored Soldier S to appear. Lead the soldier to the WRO squad and stand in front of any given WRO member, so that the Heavy Armored Soldier S will slash the WRO member (and preferably not Vincent) until said member falls down and dies. With this method I was easily able to control which variation of the Scene_06 cutscene I would later unlock. Thanks to the WRO soldiers having entered their idle animations, they will not react at all to the presence of the HASS. If you had progressed too quickly, they will still be on edge and thusly shoot down the HASS if you lead him to the squad.
- ABCDE
Nobody saved: Only the 1 scenario.
- (Nobody saved)
One member saved: 5 variations.
- A
- B
- C
- D
- E
Two survivors: 10 variations.
- AB
- AC
- AD
- AE
- BC
- BD
- BE
- CD
- CE
- DE
Three survivors: 10 variations.
- ABC
- ABD
- ABE
- ACD
- ACE
- ADE
- BCD
- BCE
- BDE
- CDE
Four survivors: 5 variations.
- ABCD
- ABCE
- ABDE
- ACDE
- BCDE
That gives us...
1 + 1 + 5 + 10 + 10 + 5 = 32
...number of variations to this scene. I am so thankful that there is no specific "order" in which you can save the soldiers, so the variations are not nearly as many as they would be if AB was not equal to BA and so on.
How was I able to unlock and record all these variations? After Scene_05, clear the area of the normal Deepground soldiers. Don't advance up the stairs and to the EM barricade until you can see that all the WRO members have entered their idle animations. Now move forward and trigger the Heavy Armored Soldier S to appear. Lead the soldier to the WRO squad and stand in front of any given WRO member, so that the Heavy Armored Soldier S will slash the WRO member (and preferably not Vincent) until said member falls down and dies. With this method I was easily able to control which variation of the Scene_06 cutscene I would later unlock. Thanks to the WRO soldiers having entered their idle animations, they will not react at all to the presence of the HASS. If you had progressed too quickly, they will still be on edge and thusly shoot down the HASS if you lead him to the squad.
So who in the squad is the male member who gets a female voice clip? The answer is not simple for the moment when the members rush in and shout "Commander!". If Soldier B, C or D have been saved, a female voice clip will be used. If two among these three (any combination) have been saved, a female voice clip and then a male voice clip will play. Saving all three of these will not result in an additional voice clip. Soldier A and Soldier E have their own respective, unique voice clips.
Right before Scene_06 ends, three soldiers have a voiced line: Soldiers A, B and E. Each of them will say "Sir!". Soldier B carries the female voice clip when there should be a male voice. Soldier E, despite crouching in the corner and not saluting Vincent, will say "Sir!" (in a male voice).
In the video below I show the voice clips for when each soldier, A through E, rushes to the commander (00:00-01:10). As you can hear, soldiers B, C and D all use the same female voice clip. Notice the clear difference between the lower pitch female voice of Soldier A versus the higher pitch voice of the incorrectly placed female voice clip. From 01:10 and to the end I show the "Sir!" lines for Soldier A, B and E.
Even after Scene_06 ends and you return to gameplay, each member has a preset position in the room where they will rest.
I point this out because I think the developers made a mistake here. Despite Soldier E being the consistently shaky member before this point, the shaking animation after Scene_06 is reserved only for Soldier C.
I have not recorded all the variations for Scene_06 in JORG (and I'm not sure if I ever will) but I have recorded enough to know how the voice clips there differ from the English ones.
When you save only soldier B, C or D, a male voice clip is used. This is different from the English game(s). However, when you save the second person in this trio (any combination) a female voice clip will be used. When soldiers later salute Vincent, each voice clip matches the seeming gender of the character model. So the Japanese original has the same mistake as the later releases but to a lesser extent.
Video guide: To 0:25 I show the "Commander" voice clips of Soldier A, then B, then B and C (hear the female voice clip here), then E. From 0:25 to the end I show the voice clips of Soldier A, then B and finally E. Is it just me or is Soldier B trying way too hard to sound like the commander? XD
Although I have listed 32 variations for Scene_06, you could in a way view this scene as having two essential versions: "Anybody saved" versus "Nobody saved". These scenarios mark the biggest changes to the scene.
Nobody saved: The commander does not thank Vincent. Vincent says "If you come with me, chances are you won't make it."
Anybody saved: The commander thanks Vincent. Vincent says "If you come with me, chances are you'll all die."
This change to Vincent's line is also reflected in the Japanese voice clips, though it's a very tiny change that I don't know what it means. ("Omaiewa" becomes "Omaierawa".) Compare the subtitles and voice clips at 01:01 and 02:11 at your leisure.
I have compared both scenes side by side, both viewing and listening, and found no other spot where the subtitles or the voice clips change.
Scene_05, where the lieutenant speaks of her brother who is either Biggs or Wedge, so far appears to have only two variations. Soldier A is invincible before Scene_05. If only Soldier A survived until that point, the scene ends with her saying "I can't believe this place is still here...". If anybody of the guys survived, it will end with one of them alerting that there are DG soldiers about. So far, the same voice clip and animations appear to be used no matter who among Soldiers B through E have survived up until that point, but I can't say with 100% certainty yet because I haven't recorded all the possible variations. Controlling which members survive and die before Scene_05 is more difficult than preparing for Scene_06.
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The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Would you look at that. Dirge was doing divergent storytelling long before "Mass Effect" made it the in-thing. 
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
The 'ra' is used to show a plural group (omae>omaera = you>you [all], kare>karera = him>them).
Shademp
420
More on Chapter 8
I discovered two bugs/errors while on my journey to record all the variations of Scene_06.
#1: At the very beginning of the stage a specific DG soldier had the tendency to move oddly fast to the right, out of view and behind a train, without any walking animations. This would happen in about half of my playtests. If the bug didn't trigger and the DG soldier began his normal walking animations, typically in Vincent's direction, the bug would never trigger after that point.
You will notice at the start of the video that I move around the train instead of moving just straight ahead. If I had ran just straight ahead, I would have triggered the WRO and DG soldiers somewhat earlier. Though debatable, I think that by taking this longer route to trigger the WRO guys at a point closer to them you may easier avoid the first wave of gunfire from the gatling gunner.
I have managed to save one of the first two WRO soldiers. Saving both may be possible, but it is pointless because the game does not reward you for saving them nor does it penalize you for letting them die. These two are in fact intended to die and they are not part of the five-member WRO squad you get the mission to save immediately after this beginning segment of the stage.
#2: If you have Soldier E killed before he joins you via his cutscene, it still removes one point from your "Squad Survivors" list. The counter will thusly have moved down from 4/5 to 3/5, even if four members are actually still alive! The only glitch later on this will cause is that even if you save one squad member, the stage results will rank you as having saved zero members.
Tests in Chapter 3 for no particular raisin
- At one point a DG beast will jump between rooftops. At no later point will this particular DG beast spawn again for you to kill. It merely appears to scare you and make you aware that there are enemies hiding about in Edge.
You are clearly not meant to defeat this DG beast, as shown in this video I just made.
Normally I would never use the Griffon (I plan to do a playthrough though where I always use the Griffon instead of Cerberus) but after countless fails to hit this enemy, I decided to go about this the easy way with help of the Griffon's rapid fire.
...And of course right after making this video I managed to shoot the beast with a Cerberus shot.
Oh well. If you stand right beneath the beast it will try to jump and slash at you. Naturally this will fail because the enemy is stuck in mid-air.
- The game's timer surprises me again. When I revisited the beginning of Chapter 3 and skipped the cutscenes, my total playtime was at 33:27 (33 minutes and 27 seconds). If I DIDN'T skip the cutscenes, my total playtime was at 33:10. >___> I consistently would gain an additional 17 seconds through the act of skipping cutscenes instead of watching several minutes of them. This is quite contrary to how the timer works at the end of Chapter 3, where it is important that you skip the final cutscenes or else you are unlikely to get a good enough completion time for S ranking in that category. Could be that the timer works differently from cutscene to cutscene. Could be that there is a version difference here that I haven't paid attention to.
- The boy in Edge, before the sidequest to save him begins, is invincible. Or more specifically, his model has no hit-detection so every shot will just pass through him. I just had to test this out to see if multiple cutscenes could be skipped.
I discovered two bugs/errors while on my journey to record all the variations of Scene_06.
#1: At the very beginning of the stage a specific DG soldier had the tendency to move oddly fast to the right, out of view and behind a train, without any walking animations. This would happen in about half of my playtests. If the bug didn't trigger and the DG soldier began his normal walking animations, typically in Vincent's direction, the bug would never trigger after that point.
You will notice at the start of the video that I move around the train instead of moving just straight ahead. If I had ran just straight ahead, I would have triggered the WRO and DG soldiers somewhat earlier. Though debatable, I think that by taking this longer route to trigger the WRO guys at a point closer to them you may easier avoid the first wave of gunfire from the gatling gunner.
I have managed to save one of the first two WRO soldiers. Saving both may be possible, but it is pointless because the game does not reward you for saving them nor does it penalize you for letting them die. These two are in fact intended to die and they are not part of the five-member WRO squad you get the mission to save immediately after this beginning segment of the stage.
#2: If you have Soldier E killed before he joins you via his cutscene, it still removes one point from your "Squad Survivors" list. The counter will thusly have moved down from 4/5 to 3/5, even if four members are actually still alive! The only glitch later on this will cause is that even if you save one squad member, the stage results will rank you as having saved zero members.
Tests in Chapter 3 for no particular raisin
- At one point a DG beast will jump between rooftops. At no later point will this particular DG beast spawn again for you to kill. It merely appears to scare you and make you aware that there are enemies hiding about in Edge.
You are clearly not meant to defeat this DG beast, as shown in this video I just made.
Normally I would never use the Griffon (I plan to do a playthrough though where I always use the Griffon instead of Cerberus) but after countless fails to hit this enemy, I decided to go about this the easy way with help of the Griffon's rapid fire.
...And of course right after making this video I managed to shoot the beast with a Cerberus shot.
Oh well. If you stand right beneath the beast it will try to jump and slash at you. Naturally this will fail because the enemy is stuck in mid-air.- The game's timer surprises me again. When I revisited the beginning of Chapter 3 and skipped the cutscenes, my total playtime was at 33:27 (33 minutes and 27 seconds). If I DIDN'T skip the cutscenes, my total playtime was at 33:10. >___> I consistently would gain an additional 17 seconds through the act of skipping cutscenes instead of watching several minutes of them. This is quite contrary to how the timer works at the end of Chapter 3, where it is important that you skip the final cutscenes or else you are unlikely to get a good enough completion time for S ranking in that category. Could be that the timer works differently from cutscene to cutscene. Could be that there is a version difference here that I haven't paid attention to.
- The boy in Edge, before the sidequest to save him begins, is invincible. Or more specifically, his model has no hit-detection so every shot will just pass through him. I just had to test this out to see if multiple cutscenes could be skipped.
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i'm going to be honest, this was a great opportunity to use the x-files theme music and i'm disappointed it didn't go there