Did Shinra burn Nibelheim?

[The Twilight Mexican]

"Strangely close" is the only kind of close we know.

 

[ForceStealer]

ALSO WOW EVEN WRITING OUT THOSE LITTLE PARAGRAPHS HAD ME IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE, LIKE, IS THIS WHAT WE'RE DEBATING? IS THIS WHAT THIS THREAD HAS COME TO? XD

I feel like I've graduated on some level of FFVII-nerdiness for arguing about something so inconsequential in the larger picture, lmao.

 

[Roger]

I don't think folks are trying to argue that 'everything' Cloud succeeds in is merely due to luck, though? I actually like his 'bursts' of strength when shit goes down because methinks it shows that Cloud can pull through when he needs to. It would turn out that he's always been capable, even in those low moments where he doesn't think too much of himself.

That said, I don't think walking away from The Fall with skinned knees constitutes as a 'burst' of that strength. XD

I think the argument is, when you consider that it's clearly evident that Tifa is also a tough lil' badass in her own right given that she doesn't need any weapons or body enhancers to jump into the air whilst spinning enemies on one hand or beating the literal dolphin out of them, it seems silly to conclude that the only reason why she didn't walk away unscathed from The Fall is because she has a "weaker" constitution than Cloud. They're likely on the same level at that point. Like, yeah, Cloud survived getting ran through with Sephiroth's sword n' shit, which shows extraordinary strength, but Tifa has also survived getting cut down by Sephiroth (after carrying the Masamune!), falling down some stairs, and enduring the long ass trip it must have taken to get a bleeding girl from the middle continent over to Midgar's doctors in the east continent.

I RECKON THEY RAISE'EM MIGHTY STRONG IN NIBELHEIM.

ALSO WOW EVEN WRITING OUT THIS POST HAD ME IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE, LIKE, IS THIS WHAT WE'RE DEBATING? IS THIS WHAT THIS THREAD HAS COME TO? XD

I feel like I've graduated on some level of FFVII-nerdiness for arguing about something so inconsequential in the larger picture, lmao. I guess this is what this site is all about. xD Ty for this experience, guys, I feel strangely closer to all of you now.

It's not me that brings it up though. We know that he got away with skinned knees because Cloud's inner strength given voice tells himself as much as a source of encouragement and a reason for why he shouldn't be too worried about his fall from Mako Reactor 5. That voice just happening to bring up an example a dumb luck while still being right in itself seems a needless complication.

Also yeah, thanks for venturing this far down the rabbit hole that is FFVII discussions with me

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

ALSO WOW EVEN WRITING OUT THIS POST HAD ME IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE, LIKE, IS THIS WHAT WE'RE DEBATING? IS THIS WHAT THIS THREAD HAS COME TO? XD

I feel like I've graduated on some level of FFVII-nerdiness for arguing about something so inconsequential in the larger picture, lmao. I guess this is what this site is all about. xD Ty for this experience, guys, I feel strangely closer to all of you now.

I live for this shit.

 

[Kieron_ODuibhir]

Same! Thanks guys.

We know that he got away with skinned knees because Cloud's inner strength given voice tells himself as much as a source of encouragement and a reason for why he shouldn't be too worried about his fall from Mako Reactor 5. That voice just happening to bring up an example a dumb luck while still being right in itself seems a needless complication.

XD A point, but I don't see how that's necessarily an explanation of anything, or a reassurance, I only ever understood it as a reminiscence of the last time he fell off a really high thing, as he has just done again. Which seems like precisely the right context for a shred of repressed memory to surface and then vanish again. He does bring up the skinned knees again when doing Journey to the Center of the Mind with Tifa.

I'm not against giving Cloud credit for things, like I definitely don't think he's right to accept the idea that his mako reaction proves he's a 'weak person,' I just think it's silly and insulting to Tifa to suggest that the vast difference in how well they landed is because of some great physical superiority that he secretly possessed.

Like, for one thing if Cloud was that badass a little kid I'd expect to hear that he was beating up all the kids his age rather than just 'starting fights.' >> Though I do think he won a lot, or he wouldn't have thought his chances of getting into SOLDIER were so good.

The fact that he was more intentionally jumping off a thing trying to catch her after she slipped, and thus was in more control of his fall and probably not falling backwards, could be a factor beyond 'luck,' if it's important there be one.

 

[Roger]

Same! Thanks guys.

XD A point, but I don't see how that's necessarily an explanation of anything, or a reassurance, I only ever understood it as a reminiscence of the last time he fell off a really high thing, as he has just done again. Which seems like precisely the right context for a shred of repressed memory to surface and then vanish again. He does bring up the skinned knees again when doing Journey to the Center of the Mind with Tifa.

I'm not against giving Cloud credit for things, like I definitely don't think he's right to accept the idea that his mako reaction proves he's a 'weak person,' I just think it's silly and insulting to Tifa to suggest that the vast difference in how well they landed is because of some great physical superiority that he secretly possessed.

Like, for one thing if Cloud was that badass a little kid I'd expect to hear that he was beating up all the kids his age rather than just 'starting fights.' >> Though I do think he won a lot, or he wouldn't have thought his chances of getting into SOLDIER were so good.

The fact that he was more intentionally jumping off a thing trying to catch her after she slipped, and thus was in more control of his fall and probably not falling backwards, could be a factor beyond 'luck,' if it's important there be one.

I'm happy with the idea that the fall should have killed both of them and Tifa is remarkable in her own right When the group from 5 years ago went up the mountain the MP that wasn't Cloud dd not survive the bridge collapse and he had a helmet on. If Cloud was able to break his fall a bit on the way down I get it but he did not just get lucky to land on his feet instead of head like Tifa. He just chafed his knees, zero actual fall damage.

 

[Kieron_ODuibhir]

XD Yeah he definitely didn't land on his feet, but landing especially badly or especially well really does just happen. Falls are weird. And we don't know what happened to the other trooper. (I can't call them MPs that's what you use to cast ehehe.) He just...didn't turn up. I have this awful feeling he got skewered on one of those alarming stone spikes that for some reason cover Mount Nibel. Of course according to Zack he didn't even exist????

A new suggestion from the meatspace nosebleed seats: Cloud landed on top of Tifa. This wouldn't necessarily make her injuries worse, but if at the moment of greatest impact her head bounced off a stone and his bounced off her stomach, that is likely going to make all the difference in the world. We know she went down first and he was trying to grab her, so their fall trajectories are likely to have been closely overlapping, with Cloud just behind.

I like this one because it adds basis and symbolic depth to Cloud's consuming guilt complex about the incident, beyond just 'Tifa's Dad is a dick when he's grieving and Cloud is highly suggestible and overly inclined to accept responsibility for circumstances beyond his control.' ^^ Not that all those things aren't true, just....

 

[fancy]

I. LIKE IT!!

As you said, it adds a bit of layer of depth! Also, methinks the trajectory of this conversation is slowly turning into headcanon talk! XD I only bring it up cuz I think there's a thread for that? And I'd love to hear more of your personal ones from your stories and whatnot!

Or sommat.

If you wanted to.

Idk.

Ignore me.

 

[Kieron_ODuibhir]

Thank! Lol I don't know what there are and aren't threads for, set me straight sempai. We've definitely diverged from the original post topic, but that one was sort of a 'what do we think even happened during this bit we didn't see?' too, so I thought the tone had stayed pretty constant.