Dragon Ball Super

[Lord Noctis]

Some spoilers for the new arc, although I figure most of us have probably read the official plot synopsis by now.

Spoiler

I've seen a lot of debate online about how much blame Goku should receive for the universes that are going to be destroyed in this tournament. Some people are even going so far as to claim that with this latest arc Goku should now be considered a villain, thoughtlessly dooming countless lives to satisfy his own selfish desire for a good fight.

Now, I think that's going a bit far. I think some folks forget that we as the audience are privy to information that Goku and friends aren't. Goku doesn't have a plot synopsis telling him that universes are going to be destroyed in this tournament. As far as he knew this was just going to be a friendly tournament where everyone would show up, throw down, shake hands and go home. He didn't know Zeno would put a universe destruction rule into play, nor did he request one. The universes that will be destroyed and the lives lost, that's all on Zeno.

Thats not to say that Goku is blameless in this. He did blatantly disregard the warnings of both Beerus and Whis and go to remind Zeno of the tournament, despite seeing first hand how unpredictable and destructive the little guy can be. In an ideal world this will hopefully lead to Goku getting some character development as he is forced to face the consequences of his thoughtless acts.

tl;dr is Goku fucked up, but Zeno is still the maniac who decided that blowing up universes sounded like a fun rule for his new tournament.

 

[Theozilla]

I wonder how this tournament is going to be set up then? Because if it is done by traditional tourney formatting that would mean 12 out of the 13 Universes are guaranteed to be destroyed, which seems a little extreme even with what they established with Zeno-Oh. Maybe it will be set up like the tournament at the end of the Hunter x Hunter Exam arc? Where instead of the winners advancing, the losers of each match do, so that way a contestant team only needs to win at least once to be spared destruction and only one universe gets destroyed instead?

 

[Lulcielid]

Design for the 12 Gods of Destruction + their names

Spoiler

 

[Lord Noctis]

Spoiler

Oh man, poor Basil had no idea what he was up against. Buu is a terrifying motherfucker, or at least he can be if you get him mad. Truth be told Basil actually got off easy; he didn't get turned into chocolate or absorbed or anything weird like that.

Maybe now the Supreme Kai of universe 9 can ease up on his smugness before everyone else around him starts choking on the fumes, although I doubt it.

Looks like Gohan is up next, and boy does his opponent seem psychotic as fuck. I'd been feeling kinda iffy as to whether I thought Gohan was gonna win this match, or get his ass kicked and then redeem himself later in the actual tournament, but now I'm confident that he won't lose. Wolf guy number 2 made it clear that he's fighting to kill, and the rules, or lack thereof, allow him to do so. Therefore, a defeat for Gohan would also mean death for Gohan. Somehow I doubt Gohan's gonna get killed off in a preliminary exhibition match.

Either way I'm looking forward to the next episode.

 

[Ghost X]

Spoiler: Episode 79

I think Gohan will / should die or at least be defeated. King Kai's wish to be brought back to life will be pushed back another year that way . That's a joke that should keep going until there are consequences for it . I just don't think it makes narrative sense that Gohan's super strong all of a sudden. He hasn't earned it. Would be good to see him redeem himself in a future arc.

It'll also be good for Goku. I think this arc is all about teaching him not to be so recklessly eager to fight. If his son dies, that'll sure'll have an impact in that regard .

 

[Lord Noctis]

Spoiler: Episode 79

I think Gohan will / should die or at least be defeated. King Kai's wish to be brought back to life will be pushed back another year that way . That's a joke that should keep going until there are consequences for it . I just don't think it makes narrative sense that Gohan's super strong all of a sudden. He hasn't earned it. Would be good to see him redeem himself in a future arc.

It'll also be good for Goku. I think this arc is all about teaching him not to be so recklessly eager to fight. If his son dies, that'll sure'll have an impact in that regard .

Spoiler

I dunno about that. We know Gohan's been training with Piccolo since the end of the ROF arc, and recently he was able to fight evenly with Goku when they were both Super Saiyans. Gohan's not nearly as strong as he was at his peak, but he should at least be good enough to make it to the actual tournament.

I agree about the King Kai joke though, that shit is gold.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm expecting

Spoiler: (Episode 79 spoilers; speculation for the next few episodes)

Universe 9 to be erased at the end of this exhibition match since the only dudes we've ever seen from there are douches, including their Supreme Kai. (He might actually be the biggest douche of all?)

That will properly demonstrate the stakes of this situation without striking at viewer sensibilities too early, even while it's sufficiently horrifying for the denizens of other universes in attendance.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well, that was interesting.

Spoiler: (Episode 80 spoilers)

The revelation that Zen-Oh was going to erase Universes 2-4, 6, 7, and 9-11 anyway alleviates Goku of any culpability in these proceedings. His suggestion to hold the Tournament of Power may, in fact, have saved his universe, if not others.

Of course, that doesn't mean he won't, in a roundabout way, be responsible for the destruction of Universes 1, 5, 8 or 12.

On a related note, I'm still pretty confident that we'll see Universe 9 erased at the end of the exhibition match, despite the Grand Priest's assurance that the exhibition won't result in the destruction of the losing universe.

If Universe 9 was already ranked last among the 12 universes, and it then loses in this match to the universe that had been ranked second-to-last anyway -- what, in Zen-Oh's mind, would be the point of pitting Universe 9 against universes even stronger than Universe 7? He'll destroy U9 without a second thought.

Final note: It was cool to see Gohan kicking tail (::Whis laugh:: puns!) again.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Well, that was interesting.

Spoiler: (Episode 80 spoilers)

The revelation that Zen-Oh was going to erase Universes 2-4, 6, 7, and 9-11 anyway alleviates Goku of any culpability in these proceedings. His suggestion to hold the Tournament of Power may, in fact, have saved his universe, if not others.

Of course, that doesn't mean he won't, in a roundabout way, be responsible for the destruction of Universes 1, 5, 8 or 12.

On a related note, I'm still pretty confident that we'll see Universe 9 erased at the end of the exhibition match, despite the Grand Priest's assurance that the exhibition won't result in the destruction of the losing universe.

If Universe 9 was already ranked last among the 12 universes, and it then loses in this match to the universe that had been ranked second-to-last anyway -- what, in Zen-Oh's mind, would be the point of pitting Universe 9 against universes even stronger than Universe 7? He'll destroy U9 without a second thought.

Final note: It was cool to see Gohan kicking tail (::Whis laugh:: puns!) again.

This covers a lot of what I have to say.

Spoiler

I do want to say that I loved the way Gohan's fight was handled. Rather than being about raw power, we got to see Gohan using his smarts to find a way to fight through a situation that had been stacked against him, thus bringing his fight to a draw despite the severe handicaps he had to fight with. Gohan using his own ki as an echo locator to track his opponent was fucking brilliant.

Not only was this a good showing for Gohan in general, but it was easily the best fight he's had in Super thus far, especially because it set up the possibility that we will see Gohan improve even further when we get into the main tournament, if his dialogue with Goku after the match is any indicator.

Good episode all the way around.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler: (Episode 81 spoilers)

Good fight, and the rules for the Tournament of Power are interesting, but I was overall underwhelmed with the episode. Not just because my expectations didn't pan out, but the ending of the episode just kind of deflated a sense of momentum for me.

I'm guessing Goku's fight with this dude from Universe 11 will lead to him having at least one ally from outside Universe 7 who knows he's not a villain, which will ultimately end up saving the day somehow? If so,. I guess this would be as good a way as any of setting it up, but I was more interested in seeing some stuff about gathering the complete Universe 7 team now.

Aside: This is interesting. "Dragon Ball Zero" is a very loosely ambiguously canon manga focusing on Raditz, made some years ago by the guy who currently does the artwork for "Dragon Ball Super." It was certainly not canon at the time of its creation, and it hasn't been declared as such now, even with its mangaka being an official DB creative mind at this point -- but it fits with established continuity just fine, and is really, really well done.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Spoiler

Check out the BALLS on Toppo. This dude just watched Goku drop a Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken Kamehameha on a guys head like it wasn't a thing, and his immediate response was "Yeah, I think I can take this guy". This dude had better be the biggest badass we've seen yet in this exhibition match, or I am going to be very disappointed.

The episode was good overall. The fight was pretty fun, although a bit brief. I liked that Goku spent the whole fight intentionally making his opponent as strong as possible just so he could have a good full power clash with him at the end.

Speaking of Goku, man the writing here is a bit odd. Last episode we learned that Goku wasn't really responsible for the universes being destroyed, at most he merely sped up the process, but this episode now puts the fate of the universes on the outcome of Goku's match with Bergamo. Now, Goku didn't really have the option of throwing the fight, seeing as Zeno would just nuke everything if he tried, but man, the utter lack of fucks Goku seems to have about this whole situation is honestly kind of impressive.

As for the tournament itself, it seems like its gonna be pretty chaotic if all 80 fighters are going at it at once. The poor animators are sure gonna have their work cut out for them.

 

[Lulcielid]

Why are you spoiler tagging the current episode?

 

[Ghost X]

Some folks may not want to be spoiled? No different to relevant threads when current movies and games are released.

 

[Lulcielid]

It's not our responsabilty to babysit them in avoiding spoilers, if they don't want to be spoiled about the lastest aired episode them they shouldn't come here until they have done so.

 

[Cthulhu]

I haven't watched any episode yet and I appreciate the spoiler tags,

 

[Lord Noctis]

Spoiler

Something of interest to power level fans, this episode seems to confirm that Goku's power only reaches god level when he uses Super Saiyan Blue. Goku powered up to Super Saiyan and nobody batted an eye, but the instant he went blue the Kais and Gods started freaking out, noting that Goku was putting out a power to rival the gods. This would seem to suggest that, outside of Super Saiyan Blue, Goku is not capable of reaching a power equal to or greater than that of Super Saiyan God, which seems be around where god level starts if we go by Whis's comments back in the ROF arc.

Granted, Goku didn't use Super Saiyan 2 or 3 during this episode, so its possible that he could reach god level with those forms, but I think the fact that the writers only chose to have the Kais and Gods react that way to Goku's blue form specifically is very telling in this matter.

 

[Lulcielid]

Thoughts on episode 81

People have being saying that Goku has recently being portrayed as an evil character but, I don't think they are trying to portray Goku as evil, but that his carefree nature may actually come with some dire consequences for once. Every time in the past, Goku's naiveté not only came without bad consequences, but even turned out to be what saved the day. Finally, a situation has arrived where Goku simply not caring about what happens is turning out to be very dangerous. Beerus in the first episode of this arc put it forward perfectly when he nearly decides to destroy Goku before he can go to Zeno's. Even Whis was agreeing that Goku should stop.
So no, I definitely think that Toppo is not going to find that Goku is evil, cause he is not. He's always had a pure heart. The problem is Goku is dangerously careless. I'm exited, cause it gives an perfect foil with Vegeta, who has become more and more considerate of others in Super. And since the Tournament of Power is going to be team based, I'm hoping it will add a new spark in their rivalry that goes well beyond just wanting to be stronger.
Or I would be if they didn't constantly try and shift the image... "Goku, against the wishes of Beerus and Whis reminded the Zenos of the tournament and now 11 universes are at risk! Oh wait... 8 were already going to be destroyed, so Goku just saved at least one... Oh wait, his smiles and attitude to everyone makes him look like a callous asshole..." Like wtf, make up your minds already...

 

[Ghost X]

Spoiler: Episode 81

The Bergamo VS Goku battle kind of reminded me of the DBZ series with how the super saiyan third grade form (which I don't remember it being called in the funimation dub) was slow because of the size of the muscles and such, so in that regard the battle outcome was kind of predictable.

I'm not really interested in a battle royale. Seems like a cheap way to skim a lot of potential episodes and character development . I'm kind of curious where Dragon Ball Super will go after the Tournament of Power, where presumably all the best fighters from all universes will be.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Spoiler: Episode 81

The Bergamo VS Goku battle kind of reminded me of the DBZ series with how the super saiyan third grade form (which I don't remember it being called in the funimation dub) was slow because of the size of the muscles and such, so in that regard the battle outcome was kind of predictable.

I'm not really interested in a battle royale. Seems like a cheap way to skim a lot of potential episodes and character development . I'm kind of curious where Dragon Ball Super will go after the Tournament of Power, where presumably all the best fighters from all universes will be.

Spoiler

Well, not all of the best warriors. Remember, Universes 1, 5, 8, and 12 are all exempt from the tournament of power. Any future story lines will probably come from those universes.

 

[Ghost X]

I found this Abridged episode particularly funny .

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That was really freakin' good.

 

[ChipNoir]

So..Uh, I poked my nose into Dragon Ball Z a few months ago, and chose to see what the original Japanese dub was like. I ended up throwing my headphones off in dismay when I heard Goku's screechy voice.

o_o; Can someone please explain to me why a man whose supposed to be in his mid-20s at that point is voiced by a woman who is old enough to be a grandmother?

 

[Lord Noctis]

Toriyama apparently expressed his personal approval for Masako Nozawa as the voice of Goku back during the dragonball days when Goku was a kid, and she's stuck with the role ever since. She also does the voice of Gohan, Goten, and later on Black. I know it takes a bit of getting used to, but she's actually a really talented voice actor and fits her roles in the dragon ball franchise a lot better than you might initially assume.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, it's actually kind of chilling to hear her voice Black, to be honest. She's great at what she does.

 

[Ghost X]

I prefer her to the english dub.