The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Dragon Ball Super
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Castiel Strife
Pro Adventurer
I loved it. All of my friends did, too. I didn’t even realize that a lot of people hated it, haha. Is the hate as bad as GT?
Heck, I even liked GT. I’m glad they did away with all that, but I still enjoy watching GT as like a parallel universe. Super was way better though. I’m just a sucker for everything Dragon Ball. I don’t think they could come out with something that I hate, lol. I can’t wait for more.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
For me, it just feels like the series is spinning its wheels. Nothing really "new" is being done. Due to the series status as a midquel between the end of the buu arc and the actual ending of the series, there aren't any real stakes, shiny new transformations are thrown around with little explanation or sense of them being "earned," the visuals are an absolute joke until very late into the series, and the directing is just terrible. I dunno, I'm not great at eloquently detailing my criticisms, especially since it has been two years since I even watched it, but watching DBS was like watching a corpse shamble around without direction. That's not to say there weren't things I liked, The first 2/3 of the Goku Black arc were okay, Goku and Freeza's passive aggressive attitude towards each other was a treat, Ultra Instinct stole the show every time it was on screen, and the direction of the final episode was absolutely stellar, but a few good parts don't make a solid whole. Dragon Ball ended in '95 and I would rather it had stayed that way.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Dragonball Super was legit. Yeah, it had shitty animation through its first half due to the animation crunch of 2016-2017. But when considering its actual unique storylines, the latter half of the series when it had the budget and manpower to tell a story it... It told it pretty damn great.
The Universe Survival arc definitely had some real stakes and it had some of the best and most unexpected fights/outcomes in Dragonball. I definitely would say that arc redeemed it. Just because it's between the Buu Arc and the epilogue of Z doesn't make it less.
And if knowing there's a future where Goku meets Uub kills the stakes, how in the world did the actual Dragonballs not ruin everything?
The Universe Survival arc definitely had some real stakes and it had some of the best and most unexpected fights/outcomes in Dragonball. I definitely would say that arc redeemed it. Just because it's between the Buu Arc and the epilogue of Z doesn't make it less.
And if knowing there's a future where Goku meets Uub kills the stakes, how in the world did the actual Dragonballs not ruin everything?
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Aight fuck it, I'll die on this hill.
2. Movie retelling but much worse
3. Bland tournament arc
4. Android saga but worse okay I actually like this one but still
5. Bigger tournament arc
1. Movie retelling but worse
2. Movie retelling but much worse
3. Bland tournament arc
4. Android saga but worse okay I actually like this one but still
5. Bigger tournament arc
On paper, sure, but all too often the characters don't treat it like that. There's no moral struggle about destroying the other universes so that theirs can survive. It's just another tournament, and that's all most characters treat it as. There's no sense of despair and desperation, and that's why I think the arc fails. Also Jiren is the blandest antagonist dragon ball has ever seen. There were a lot of unique scenarios that kept it from being boring, sure, but it still wasn't good.
Ah yes, the old "if you think A is bad then why don't you think B is bad" argument. Both. Both kill the stakes. That's why it's practically a joke that death means nothing in Dragon Ball. "Next time I get a free ice cream!"
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Well, I can't help but disagree with most of that, Ody, but I appreciate that you detailed your reasons. =)
I kind of have to agree where the Beerus intro movie is concerned, but I do think the "Resurrection 「F」" retelling worked out just as well. Maybe even a little bit better.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I definitely don't think Super's retellings of any the movies work for the better, just because of the sheer terrible animation quality
Resurrection F's straight, to the point movie storyline definitely benefited the plot. The anime's drawing out of the non-important fights with Gotenks, Tagoma turning into a madman killing machine, Captain Ginyu stealing Tagome's body (which makes zero sense lol), Piccolo being utterly useless and then inexplicably having to sacrifice himself for Gohan because he still can't get his shit together left me salty, confused and just waiting for the next arc.
I agree, the beginning of Super is just kinda... There. Once you get past that, it starts to feel like it's actually telling a story worth seeing. It's also funny and it's levity calls back to the old school Dragonball series.
And since when are tournament arcs bad in Dragonball??
There was moral struggle! Gohan felt bad. Piccolo felt bad having to erase other Namekians. You definitely see the moral struggle. The character growth everyone had, especially Frieza, made that whole season worth it. The whole cast expressed unique feelings and thoughts about the situation they were in. Even Beerus and Champa had a touching moment when Champa ended up getting erased. Don't know how you're criticizing that arc for that reason.
Well, as we know now.. There are worst things than dying
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
That's the wonderful thing about polite discourse, we can disagree with each other and not make it into a big thing. Out of curiosity, what are you guys' reasons for liking it so much? I just feel like compared to other things coming out around the same time (My hero academia, Dr. Stone, OPM) it's very generic.
The Resurrection F adaptation did have a few additions I liked, but the massive drop in animation quality (probably the worst of the series) nullifies any good will that might lend it.
The first really original story starts on episode 64, near the halfway point of the series. It's a bit much to just write off everything before that.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
....I mean, that's what I did.
I mostly just skipped the series pre-episode 64.
That's probably why I enjoyed it so much
I mostly just skipped the series pre-episode 64.
That's probably why I enjoyed it so much
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I mean, yeah. I agree on that!
The first half was pretty damn infamous, but if you can get past that hurdle, it gets into it's groove and becomes very enjoyable.
Here's to hoping it's next season doesn't begin like a Regigigas and give us a painfully slow start.
The first half was pretty damn infamous, but if you can get past that hurdle, it gets into it's groove and becomes very enjoyable.
Here's to hoping it's next season doesn't begin like a Regigigas and give us a painfully slow start.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
2015 was such a wild ride when DBS was airing.
As someone who was incredible active in DB forums at the time, this nonsense was legit serious bussiness.
As someone who was incredible active in DB forums at the time, this nonsense was legit serious bussiness.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Well, I watched literally none of that other stuff, so that maybe helped.
Ody said:
The "Battle of Gods" arc big-time cut corners with its animation, though, by only having ocean and a boat as scenery. XD
In some ways, though, that improves my opinion of what the animators delivered.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
One of the best callbacks in the franchise, I legit teared.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Oh no, yeah, Super had some real talent on it. Even with all the bullshit they pulled off some incredible stuff. Like I said, Ultra instinct stole every scene it was in.
And this is probably my favorite action scene in any dragon ball anything:
Also the Broly movie had incredible animation, and had many of the same animators as the show. There was no lack of talent on this production.
That does not stop the show from having bland writing and scenarios.
Yeah that'd do it too.Well, I watched literally none of that other stuff, so that maybe helped.
If you're interested in the behind the scenes stuff on the animation side, there's a youtuber called animeajay who did episode by episode breakdowns as the show was airing.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
The numerous animation callbacks were one of my absolute favorite things about the show. Like, it's hard to not love the show when it does stuff like this.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
He technically got that moment years agoIs anybody else reading the manga, by chance? Vegeta finally got a proper, "I get to show up late with a new power & save Goku" moment & it was really damn good. I also love that his new ability matches up perfectly with his core ideology.
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
He technically got that moment years ago
True, but Goku's also gone through a whole new arc of gaining power in Super, and doing that tried-and-true classic thing, where that definitely needed to happen within the context of the current power set, and also in a way that represents more about who Vegeta is now.
X
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Ay my boy lance is getting some recognition.
I highly recommend his entire "Dragon Ball dissection" series, it's probably some of the best fan analysis of the series and I feel like it's really overlooked.
BlueCollarNerd
Pro Adventurer
I just finished DBS and it fucking ROCKED!!! I enjoyed the music a lot. The tournament of power was definitely my favorite arc. All the fights before hand "testing" all the old fighters strengths was awesome. Seeing roshi go to see kami for a final farewell was touching.