Ebert: "Video games can never be art"

[Ⓐaron]

Ebert should stick to film criticism. He clearly doesn't know anything about games.

 

[Glaurung]

Spielberg said games will be considered art when someone admits to crying over one.

Spielberg never played FFVII, FFX or Shadow of the Colossus, that is clear. He will consider videogames art the very day he realizes he can make money with them

This Ebert guy reminds me of a big controversy some months ago with a Spanish director who said on a newspaper column (not on his blog, mind you. He was getting paid for writing offensive shit) that it was deplorable that "simple doodles" (refering to comics and manga) could have official competitions like literary works, and that figures made of plasticine (refering to the movie UP!) could be better regarded that traditional movies, and overall called morons to all who liked them. Enough to say that after that his blog swarmed with comments of people calling him "subsidied parasite".

 

[Ghost X]

Sure, art has a lot of definitions, but it is clear Ebert must be unfamiliar with the most simplest of them: Art is expression. If games aren't that, then I don't know what is. I think the story of how Ebert's carotid burst after surgery is awesome though.

 

[Alex]

I fail to see why this is such a big deal to people one way or the other. Seriously, I can't be the only one who's genuinely confused as to why people are so very desperate to have games classified as art. Does it seriously affect your enjoyment of games if they are or are not considered art?

ITT, people need to stop being butthurt over someone else's opinion.

 

[Bex]

Ico.
Enough said.

 

[Alex]

 

[Interslicery]

theres a fucking game of that show? my life is complete

 

[Glaurung]

I fail to see why this is such a big deal to people one way or the other. Seriously, I can't be the only one who's genuinely confused as to why people are so very desperate to have games classified as art. Does it seriously affect your enjoyment of games if they are or are not considered art?

ITT, people need to stop being butthurt over someone else's opinion.

It's not a big deal, really. He will be a narrow-minded stuck-up whether we rage at his words or not. Personally what irks me is the snobbish attitude of most "art experts" around the world. Sure, if videogames were going to be considered as artistic as canned shit, a starving dog or fishes being slowly suffocated because they don't have enough water to breath, then I'm against it by all means.

All I can do at his words is to laugh, because he's one of those "art experts" who wish to create a closed and exclusive club of snobs, where they can put interesting faces and elaborate complicated explanations in front of a canvas with two or three lines randomly placed or a hunk of twisted metal (when most of them are really thinking: "WTF is this?"), and anyone who doesn't do the same it's just an uneducated barbarian. It's like the tale of The Emperor's New Clothes.

If I remember well, there was an episode of The Simpsons which parodied this.

This thread also reminds how I haven't seen TresDias around in a while.

Now that you mention it, I miss him too. I hope it's nothing serious

 

[DLPB]

Glaurung you are spot on. Same thing happens with literature snobs. They try to convince you that if you don't like Shakespeare you are a moron, but whilst his writing ability is amazing, his stories, at least to me, come across as quite boring, rubbish and needlessly verbose.

Same thing here. We have, as you say, a group of people who are simply snobs and they will try to convince you that a twisted piece of metal is art, when in fact a 5 year old with some clay could havemade something more intelligent.

 

[Bex]

Glaurung you are spot on. Same thing happens with literature snobs. They try to convince you that if you don't like Shakespeare you are a moron, but whilst his writing ability is amazing, his stories, at least to me, come across as quite boring, rubbish and needlessly verbose.

Same thing here. We have, as you say, a group of people who are simply snobs and they will try to convince you that a twisted piece of metal is art, when in fact a 5 year old with some clay could havemade something more intelligent.

All art is subjective.
Perhaps if you were not so ignorant in your dismissive evaluation of 'art', then perhaps you may be able to appreciate this.

 

[Glaurung]

All art is subjective.
Perhaps if you were not so ignorant in your dismissive evaluation of 'art', then perhaps you may be able to appreciate this.

Exactly because of this, videogames, comics and any other way to tell a story or send a message shouldn't be regarded as anything less that what these groups of people say that it's "true art" so dogmatically.

My comment wasn't about bashing modern or abstract art, it's the attitude of "if you don't like it, you are an idiot". Because art is so subjective, it's open to any kind of taste, which many art/literature/film critics seem not to understand. Instead of that, they take that snobbish attitude of one who thinks that liking something that most people don't makes them more clever or interesting. It's not the art per se, but how people try to use it.

 

[Alex]

If videogames are art, does that mean that they can't be literature?? D:

 

[DLPB]

All art is subjective.
Perhaps if you were not so ignorant in your dismissive evaluation of 'art', then perhaps you may be able to appreciate this.

I appreciate art includes a whole lot of criteria, but if you think twisted metal costing millions, that a 5 year old could conceive is a worth while venture then I feel sorry for you, the same way I feel sorry for people desperately trying to convince people that Shakespeare's stories are wonderful.

Art needs a redefinition, good art and bad art. Good art being something that is difficult to do and bad art being something that any fool can do.

You are probably one of those people who think smearing colours randomely onto a page is art when it is just pseudo-art and a load of bullshit. So yeah, let us call it good art and bad art. I prefer Good art, sorry if you don't

 

[null]

Art needs a redefinition, good art and bad art. Good art being something that is difficult to do and bad art being something that any fool can do.

So you're saying every video game is art, then? I don't think designing and programming a modern commercial video game is something any fool could do.

You are probably one of those people who think smearing colours onto a page is art when it is just pseudo-art and a load of bullshit.

*colors

 

[HylianMogget]

Also, four words: Shadow of the Colossus.

I could type out a long response explaining why I think Ebert is wrong, but that is all that really needs to be said.

Really, though, Ebert has been saying this for a while, and the way he shoots down those three examples in the linked article show that it really comes down to the fact that he seems to be unwilling to make any attempt to re-evaluate his current views and instead just looks for ways to confirm them. And I think that tendency is actually more infuriating than his argument itself, even though it's a subjective issue to begin with.

 

[Alex]

I appreciate art includes a whole lot of criteria, but if you think twisted metal costing millions, that a 5 year old could conceive is a worth while venture then I feel sorry for you, the same way I feel sorry for people desperately trying to convince people that Shakespeare's stories are wonderful.

Art needs a redefinition, good art and bad art. Good art being something that is difficult to do and bad art being something that any fool can do.

You are probably one of those people who think smearing colours randomely onto a page is art when it is just pseudo-art and a load of bullshit. So yeah, let us call it good art and bad art. I prefer Good art, sorry if you don't

I'm not sure the person who praises Shakespeare's writing quality, then in the same sentence calls him needlessly verbose, is allowed to feel sorry for anybody.

Let's not call it good art and bad art, and instead call art highly subjective. Which is the point. I mean, I hate 'modern art' too, but I appreciate that the art is more than just the finished product. Clearly you've never actually done any artistic work yourself or you'd know that the weeks and months of research that go into designing a finished piece of work is not something 'that any fool can do'

The ignorance of Shakespeare and into what goes into creating an artistic piece is pretty shocking here, I'm not going to lie. The fact you can judge art (and apparently literature) enough to criticise it, just by how pretty the picture is, is pretty laughable.

 

[Alex]

*colors

No, he spelt it correctly the first time given the fact he comes from an English speaking country. Not AMERICA - YEEEEEHAWWWW land.

 

[DLPB]

There is a difference between being able to use amazing language and writing skills and being able to write a good story, in the same way as there is a skill to being a great speaker and a great leader.

They are separate things. To be a great writer of stories you need both, to be a great example of literature you need only one. Shakespeare today would probably write brilliant stories because he would have had more to work with and moved with the times, but his stories as they are, for the most part are rather basic. I don't know anyone who says "I am going to go and read Romeo and Juliet" or "I think I will give The Merchant of venice a whirl"

 

[null]

No, he spelt it correctly the first time given the fact he comes from an English speaking country. Not AMERICA - YEEEEEHAWWWW land.

Well as I recall we YEEEEHAAAWED all over y'all, twice. Speak proper American.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

A pity we can't do something like this to stuff published on the internet. Also a pity Ebert didn't experience a class like this in his youth, otherwise he might pull his head out of his ass and view the world a different way.

 

[Alex]

Well as I recall we YEEEEHAAAWED all over y'all, twice. Speak proper American.

I'm sorry, I can't hear your post over your inability to win a war all by yourself

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Shakespeare was a mass communicator.

If he was alive today he'd be writing TV shows, or else collaborating with Leonardo da Vinci on video games that would kick Square Enix's arse/ass.

BTW I see the art of misunderstanding one another is alive and well here.

ABTW I do know people who read Shakespeare for fun. They are my students. Not many of them - sadly I don't have that effect - but some. Others prefer manga.

AABTW Alex, if you were a stand-up comic I'd pay to come see you.

 

[null]

I'm sorry, I can't hear your post over your inability to win a war all by yourself

Said FDR to Churchill.

Y'all redcoats are something else.

 

[Alex]

Said FDR to Churchill.

Y'all redcoats are something else.

The redcoats certainly were something else, they smashed the French army all across Europe.

No surprises then that the French showed up to help the Americans bawling their eyes out for independence re-ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

AABTW Alex, if you were a stand-up comic I'd pay to come see you.

Your kind words would earn you such a shout out

 

[null]

No surprises then that the French showed up to help the Americans bawling their eyes out for independence re-ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

I was gonna do Harbringer after I ran out of quotes for this guy.

Er, I mean, your words are as empty as your future. This exchange is over.