Environmental Message
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NewQuixote
Lv. 1 Adventurer
They shouldn't shy away from it. There's something poignant about traveling the beautiful world of FF7 only to see it mottled here and there with the effects of life stream extraction. Even the Zolom is there because of the effects of industrialization. Ideally they will show and not tell. 
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
It seems unlikely that, with things worse in our world now than they were 18 years ago, they'd shy away from addressing something that was pretty clearly a major theme of the original game. I do kind of wonder if they're going to stick with the "coal as an alternative to Mako power" though or if they're going to introduce modern alternative energy sources. 
Starling
Pro Adventurer
I'd like more mention of renewable energy sources like wind or solar power. I still find it really weird that they just replaced mako with oil post-game, even though it may have only been a temporary solution to stave off a really bad energy crisis while they're rebuilding the world's infrastructure from the ground up, as well as dealing with geostigma and such. It would've been nice if they were clearer about that in the compilation. Maybe they could make alternate forms of energy more noticeable in the places that don't rely solely on mako. Cosmo Canyon has wind turbines and Nibelheim seems to have wood burning stoves as well as water barrels despite having a reactor.
Cthulhu
Administrator
- AKA
- Yop
Yeah TBF I thought coal (and in AC, oil) as an alternative energy source was... doubtful at best. I'd expect them to use materia lenses or something instead. I mean Sephiroth can destroy the solar system with just one attack; surely they could harness energy like that instead of the souls of dead people?
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
The anvil that "man wrecks nature" was already dropped pretty heavily in the OG. Like, that's the entire thing that sets the plot off. It's already going to be obvious, especially now with the hi-def. Any more blatant and it looses what little subtlety it had, and it had practically none to begin with.
Starling
Pro Adventurer
Some anvils need to be dropped, though I don't think they really need to add more emphasis to it since it's clear enough in the OG.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
How does Barret's plot work without coal?
"Corel's always been a windmill producing town."
A Japanese game is probably not going to promote nuclear energy, and Corel's landlocked. Geothermal can't be exported.
The wisdom of the Ancients (Black Materia, White Materia, Zirconiade, Chaos) does a rather better job of destroying stuff, to be fair.
Sephiroth had that power because he was absorbing the Planet's Energy, so it's essentially the same as Mako.
"Corel's always been a windmill producing town."
A Japanese game is probably not going to promote nuclear energy, and Corel's landlocked. Geothermal can't be exported.
The wisdom of the Ancients (Black Materia, White Materia, Zirconiade, Chaos) does a rather better job of destroying stuff, to be fair.
Sephiroth had that power because he was absorbing the Planet's Energy, so it's essentially the same as Mako.
Starling
Pro Adventurer
We all know only the potentially world destroying stuff (and occasionally the one an only countermeasure) ever last from ancient times to the present. Why else would the majority of individuals who come back from the dead be the villains?
Coal is the energy source that was common before mako was invented and phased it out. Despite that, it doesn't mean all the other towns relied solely on those energy methods, as seen with Cosmo Canyon. They don't have to verbally acknowledge the other energy sources but it'd be nice to be able to see them around more if you take the time to look.
Coal is the energy source that was common before mako was invented and phased it out. Despite that, it doesn't mean all the other towns relied solely on those energy methods, as seen with Cosmo Canyon. They don't have to verbally acknowledge the other energy sources but it'd be nice to be able to see them around more if you take the time to look.
Dangerous Toast
Rookie Adventurer
Sometimes I think the themes of the OG are more relevant today than ever, namely terrorism and rampant capitalism.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Oil might not be great, but it's better than using the planet's soul is all I ever took from that rather than advocating for oil in our world.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Mako is a metaphor for unrenewable resources. FFVII is largely a cautionary tale, like all the gritty sci-fi that preceded it. Since '97 we have only seen the rate of troubles caused by the 1% and our corporate puppetmasters increase in speed and intensity. Oil, like mako, doesn't last forever. Oil, like mako, like coal, is made of ancient life.
The game makes no attempt to glorify coal. The wind generators in Cosmo Canyon are a visual alternative, but Cosmo Canyon is reclusive and parochial -- no one living in developed areas has considered renewable energy sources. The difference between the two is too abstract to parse, and not worth mentioning. Again, a cautionary tale.
The game makes no attempt to glorify coal. The wind generators in Cosmo Canyon are a visual alternative, but Cosmo Canyon is reclusive and parochial -- no one living in developed areas has considered renewable energy sources. The difference between the two is too abstract to parse, and not worth mentioning. Again, a cautionary tale.
CameoAmalthea
Pro Adventurer
Yes - the messages of FFVII were relevant in FFVII and even moreso now since we haven't really done anything to fix the problems caused by fossil fuel dependence - we ignored Global Warming and now we're wondering why we're dealing with weather issues and water shortages. A lot of people still don't get it. And the anxieties about corporate power haven't gone away either - now corporations are more powerful than ever - especially in the US where Corporate Personhood allows wealthy groups to bank role elections. The gap between rich and poor is higher than ever.
Not to mention dystopian novels are more popular than ever.
So why would you remove the messages that make FFVII relevant. When FFVII first came out the question was "Should we do something about Global Warming" - with conservative groups funded by oil and coal companies saying 'no'. Now we're at a point where it's too late to do anything and the question is 'what do we do now' on top of 'should we do something to not make this worse' - which puts us closer to the world of FFVII which explores what happens when it's too late to avoid disaster.
The environmental message will get FFVII for good press and make it more relevant - why abandon it.
I think it a bit of a Broken Aesop with everyone going to Fossil Fuels - since the whole thing was sort of a metaphor against Fossil Fuels. We could keep Barrets backstory as a coal miner - including supporting the reactor because his wife was sick - maybe say there was problems with coal but Mako is worse.
Maybe say go back to fossil fuels terrible but urging the importance of not becoming dependent on it?
Although most of the discussion of fossil fuels was post OG...maybe if they rerelease the novellas they'd change that...
Maybe some environmental group should ask Square to think about changing it?
Not to mention dystopian novels are more popular than ever.
So why would you remove the messages that make FFVII relevant. When FFVII first came out the question was "Should we do something about Global Warming" - with conservative groups funded by oil and coal companies saying 'no'. Now we're at a point where it's too late to do anything and the question is 'what do we do now' on top of 'should we do something to not make this worse' - which puts us closer to the world of FFVII which explores what happens when it's too late to avoid disaster.
The environmental message will get FFVII for good press and make it more relevant - why abandon it.
I think it a bit of a Broken Aesop with everyone going to Fossil Fuels - since the whole thing was sort of a metaphor against Fossil Fuels. We could keep Barrets backstory as a coal miner - including supporting the reactor because his wife was sick - maybe say there was problems with coal but Mako is worse.
Maybe say go back to fossil fuels terrible but urging the importance of not becoming dependent on it?
Although most of the discussion of fossil fuels was post OG...maybe if they rerelease the novellas they'd change that...
Maybe some environmental group should ask Square to think about changing it?
Starling
Pro Adventurer
Replacing a metaphor for oil/nuclear power with actual oil kind makes it come across as a broken aesop. Like I said, there's a chance they only intend to use it the time it takes to stabilize the infrastructure and establish a better, renewable source of power but the way Barret talks about it makes me question that. They really should've made it clear it was a temporary and would be replaced by something better, as I got the impression they were aware coal wasn't the greenest of resources either. The more environmentally aware characters know that Cosmo Canyon is the place that best represents those values and even go there to learn about it. You'd think they'd try to get wind power to become more common.
Cthulhu
Administrator
- AKA
- Yop
Good call actually. I wonder if they're going to change 'terrorist' to 'rebel' or 'freedom fighter' or something like that now :/. Terrorist is accurate though, I mean they bomb power plants and shit without too much public support and probably killed quite a lot of people in the process HEY HOLD ON A MINUTE. Avalance are dicks! Why is this game being glorified? I'M SHUTTING DOWN THIS TERRORIST PROPAGANDA FANSITE RIGHT NOW.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I doubt it, "terrorist" has been a popular/overused buzzword since at least the 80s.
I supposed to you could have an argument about whether they were terrorists in that their specific goal was to destroy reactors, rather than...instilling terror. But that was absolutely at least part of their goals/hopes.
I supposed to you could have an argument about whether they were terrorists in that their specific goal was to destroy reactors, rather than...instilling terror. But that was absolutely at least part of their goals/hopes.
Starling
Pro Adventurer
Terrorism is defined as acts of terror with political goals, which is exactly what they're doing, even though there's an undertone of revenge behind the whole down with the mega-corporation for killing the planet justification. The game in no way presents what they did as right simply because they're the playable characters. While terrorism is bad, there have been a lot of issues with how it's been dealt with that I feel FF7's themes are relevant to. To censor a game like this because of that would be stupid, considering no such restrictions were made with the ports of the original version. FF7 may not be perfect but there're a lot of important lessons you can take away from it.
CameoAmalthea
Pro Adventurer
Conservatives may lash out against FFVII - but a lot of conservatives dislike video games as it is...
ForceStealer
Double Growth
As I've said before, video game fear-mongering is very much a bipartisan effort.
But even so, I'm not sure I understand all this hand-wringing that FF7's controversial themes are somehow more controversial now then they were then. If anything, games are more "controversial" (violent, sexual, vulgar, mature stories) now then they ever were in the 90s.
But even so, I'm not sure I understand all this hand-wringing that FF7's controversial themes are somehow more controversial now then they were then. If anything, games are more "controversial" (violent, sexual, vulgar, mature stories) now then they ever were in the 90s.
Starling
Pro Adventurer
Apparently discussing the controversy of something is basically free publicity that some games intentionally try to take advantage of by being deliberately controversial rather than it simply being a bi-product of what it's about. That and the progression of society would explain the shift in controversial subjects in videogames. Ratings systems will always be BS though.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
To be fair, Force, FFVII was made before 9/11 and 7/7 and a number of similar attacks. Terrorism is a lot more sensitive a topic in the West than it was when the game was originally made, and I can easily see a game where the heroes are responsible for terrorism being more controversial now than it was eighteen years ago.
That said, by some definitions of the word Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, which either tells you that the word "terrorism" has lost all meaning in the modern age, or else that terrorism does not automatically make someone a bad person. And if you're going to dispute the conclusion that Mandela was a good person then we're gonna have words.
That said, by some definitions of the word Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, which either tells you that the word "terrorism" has lost all meaning in the modern age, or else that terrorism does not automatically make someone a bad person. And if you're going to dispute the conclusion that Mandela was a good person then we're gonna have words.