ERRORS in article "This Just In: the LTD is Over"

[Tennyo]

That's not what they meant, Jecht. The LTD causes more drama than any other topic you could possibly debate on this forum. I mean, just think about all the multitude of things we've debated both big and small and imagine how none of it became as big of a shit storm as the LTD.

It very sadly NEEDS to be treated differently. I don't know why but people just can't handle their pairings.

 

[Geostigma]

I think he means when Anastar kind of just hand waved his earlier point by saying

All the options you've mentioned aren't directly involved with the lTD. If you haven't been involved in LTD debates then you'd be unfamiliar with how optional vs non-optional scenes are weighed in terms of validity in LTD debates.

.

FWIW Jecht I don't think Anastars reply to you would have been received very well in the LTD thread had it been made there. Were just not trying to reply to it so as not to revive that awful awful awful awful awful awful awful thread , and also because this isn't the place for that discussion.

IIRC the LTD does have it's own set of rules that have been shaped over the course of a few LTD threads and years. They don't how ever constitute hand waving replies because of perceived notions of canon though. It's just highly expected that people there make sure to treat each other with respect.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's just highly expected that people there make sure to treat each other with respect.

Yes, this.

And with respect to that, everyone calm down. This conversation didn't need to get heated.

I'm now drawing a line under it.
----

There.

Okay, so I got a response from Ryu. He's fine with what Shademp suggested, so I'm going to go ahead and make the edit.

EDIT: And that's done.

 

[JechtShotMK9]

That's not what they meant, Jecht. The LTD causes more drama than any other topic you could possibly debate on this forum. I mean, just think about all the multitude of things we've debated both big and small and imagine how none of it became as big of a shit storm as the LTD.

It very sadly NEEDS to be treated differently. I don't know why but people just can't handle their pairings.

I am a college history professor focusing in genocide. I am quite familiar with "drama" when it comes to debate, lol. While I understand that some topics may be more contentious than others, that does not mean that you change the rules of debates, or institute arbitrary distinctions just to placate an immature party. When this happens, you punish the various offenders, not shift the goalposts, rendering it "unavailable" to those outside the debate. This topic isn't a special snowflake.

At no point is "you just don't get it" an acceptable response to engaging in a debate. It's a weak defense to cover a weak argument by attempting to displace the other party from the topic in question.

And I'm sorry to disagree with you, but that is entirely what the person I was responding to meant. That, because I was apparently unaware of the arbitrary rules some unofficial governing body had established to deal with an immature fanbase, I was not informed enough with said arbitrary rules to participate in the debate. As Reaper pointed out, it was pretty clear. And while I am glad to hear that it would not have been accepted in the context of said debate, the fact that this debate has it's own set of "rules" is, frankly, ridiculous. I don't care how much "drama" has been caused; as a topic of discussion, it is not inherently any more special than any other topic in the franchise.

Edit: Sorry, I missed your post. Causing any kind of ill will was not my intent, nor was it meant to be portrayed as such, so I'll back out now.

 

[Anastar]

I'm not going to say my stance on whether the article should come down, I'm here asking if it does may I keep my screenshots. Reason I am asking I'm making a cloti data base website.

*hugs* It's good to see you!

I've just got a moment, but like Jason T said - the article isn't coming down. Actually, I didn't ask for it to come down. I was asking for errors in it to be corrected.

BBL

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And while I am glad to hear that it would not have been accepted in the context of said debate, the fact that this debate has it's own set of "rules" is, frankly, ridiculous. I don't care how much "drama" has been caused; as a topic of discussion, it is not inherently any more special than any other topic in the franchise.

The rules in question are for conduct when discussing the topic on this specific forum, not what flies in terms of a cogent observation or analysis. As far as that goes, the same standards of scrutiny would apply there as they would in any other discussion.

Sorry, I missed your post. Causing any kind of ill will was not my intent, nor was it meant to be portrayed as such, so I'll back out now.

It's cool.

 

[Lex]

I feel like people jumped down 1st Class Soldier's throat a bit there. I took the post in good faith, and I'm sure Ryu wouldn't mind you keeping screencaps of the article. I certainly don't. However, we won't be taking it down so you shouldn't have to worry

But yes as a general rule members who were around or remember the LTD thread in its heyday are incredibly wary of the topic whenever it comes up. It actually has its own section on the board for the purpose of rule implementation XD. Stuff got bad, yo.

Inevitably when it gets revived we'll be keeping an incredibly close eye on it.

 

[JechtShotMK9]

And while I am glad to hear that it would not have been accepted in the context of said debate, the fact that this debate has it's own set of "rules" is, frankly, ridiculous. I don't care how much "drama" has been caused; as a topic of discussion, it is not inherently any more special than any other topic in the franchise.

The rules in question are for conduct when discussing the topic on this specific forum, not what flies in terms of a cogent observation or analysis. As far as that goes, the same standards of scrutiny would apply there as they would in any other discussion.

Sorry, I missed your post. Causing any kind of ill will was not my intent, nor was it meant to be portrayed as such, so I'll back out now.

It's cool.

Thank you for making that clear. As that is an entirely other matter than what I was led to believe, based on Anastar's post, I'm glad to see that I was mistaken.

As I believe I have made my point, whether it applied here or not, as it turns out (lol), I'm going to follow through on my previous statement and back out

 

[Anastar]

Anastar, I hope you get some kind of resolve to this situation where your members are happy along with everyone else.

Thank you, but I wasn't here for the CA forum. I brought this up on my own initiative without talking to anyone on the CA forum about it. I actually spend very little time there now.

Thank you for making that clear. As that is an entirely other matter than what I was led to believe, based on Anastar's post, I'm glad to see that I was mistaken.

I'm sorry that I confused you. I'm perfectly aware that my answer to you wouldn't have been received well in an LTD thread as Reaper said - but I wasn't writing for an LTD thread. If you look at my post again, I linked you to an example of what I was talking about, where the subject of how optional vs. non-optional scenes can effect whether it is considered canon. I thought that example would clarify things for you. I'm sorry it didn't.

Okay, so I got a response from Ryu. He's fine with what Shademp suggested, so I'm going to go ahead and make the edit.

EDIT: And that's done.

Thank you very much, Tres, and please thank Ryu for me. I appreciate what you've done, and it is a big help. I do wish that the errors in it had been corrected, too, but I do appreciate what you've done.

Thank you and Ryu once again, and I'm sorry I've caused such a commotion here. I came for a good discussion about errors in the article and instead it caused nothing but turmoil here. I'm sorry for that, but I can see how unwelcome I am here - so I'll just go.

 

[Splintered]

I wonder if part of the frustration is because it feels like TLS is being dragged into affairs from outside the forum.

Like, I get it's because of the article in this site, but an article that has a very narrow scope in the interest of this forum, that's meant to only really be debated in one thread by a group of interested people, that's been argued day in by day out by what feels like people who aren't members of this forum.

I can't even remember when the last time we even talked about the LTD other than passing snark about how much we don't like it, coming from someone who was active in the whole thing too.

So it looks like this pops out of nowhere, years later, and everyone is making a big deal out of it because someone, somewhere trolled some other person in some other place, now fix this mess, when we've already moved on years ago. I get the LTD is a part of fandom, but it feels like a huge, obnoxious part of fandom that constantly demands attention like a petulant child, I don't want to get up and fight Tres (was it Tres, I don't remember) when he said something about Dissidia being canon a few years back. Actually though, I shouldn't say the LTD, because I suppose any shipping war is that bad, (Naruto, Bleach, and Harry Potter are the first things that come to mind).

Anyone who's dealt with issues transplanted from other people's sites knows not only it is a huge pain, but it's often one that there feels little investment in, because these people aren't members of your own community and nine times out of ten, they go and bitch about how they were treated later on on their websites to their own group of people. Our LTD got caught up with a lot of that back in the day. It sucked.

I hope there's a way to minimize that in the future. I'm tired of people dragging issues from the CxA and CxT forums here. And now tumblr and youtube and wherever the depths of the pairing holes trolling gremlins come from.

I'm just... I'm just tired of pairing wars and their huge spheres of influence. But that's a different rant.

I'm sorry that Anastar and 1st Class weren't warmly received. I don't think anyone really means it.

But anyone who has never been in the heart of a shipping war sees things like "This article is causing issues for YEARS" and "Peace treaties" and thinks to themselves "What the fuck!?" This is all quite common in pairing discussions, but not anywhere else outside of the shipping wars. It looks silly from the outside, and I'm really glad I've removed myself from it, at least temporarily.

 

[Tennyo]

Anastar, it's just one thread. Stick around and post in other non-LTD related threads.

 

[Ryushikaze]

In general, can we stop thinking of the LTD as a war? It's a fandom debate. Lives are not on the line. People can get way to fucking involved in it, and say hurtful shit, but the response isn't to draft a 'peace treaty' signed by various leaders representing sites. The reaction is to individually vow to be more polite to people and ask them to do the same for you.

We are nearly all of us adults in this, and we should act like such as an example to those of us that aren't or act like children despite being adults.

 

[Anastar]

I completely agree with what you said, Ryu - but at the same time, you know that the insults and harassment still continues. I saw it happen to you and Quex on the CA forum just a short time ago. IIRC, it was Elena who said she saw it on Deviant Art when she was looking for fanart.

Doesn't matter why it happens - it still happens. I tried to do something to stop it. Is that such a horrible thing?

I came here with the intention of discussing an old article that continues to influence people's perceptions of the LTD - NOT to debate the LTD. I submitted an article to you just recently for publication and I assume you must have read it - so you must know my current stance on the LTD is that there is no canon pairing, that all pairings are a possible interpretation, and that SE left the LTD up to player interpretation.

If you know that, then you must know that I wouldn't be here to argue against Cloti or to promote Clerith. I was only here to discuss the accuracy of facts as stated in an article you wrote that is still used as a basis for making inaccurate statements about the FTOIL page.

That is not debating the LTD.

I do appreciate you and Tres deciding to annotate the article and I think it was well done for that purpose. But the annotations will only reach those people who refer to that article.

Does the FTOIL page really say what you wrote? I'm not talking about other evidence - I'm talking about the FTOIL page itself, and what you wrote about the content of the FTOIL page.'

A lot of fans have the memory of what you wrote in that article. How many will check back to the article and see the annotations? How many will rely on memory alone?

That's what I was here to discuss - not the LTD.

For those who say you don't care about the LTD or about what inaccurate preconceptions the readers of Ryu's article will have, why are you even here commenting about something you don't care about?

I brought up 5 inaccuracies stated in your article Ryu. Do the annotations correct all of those inaccuracies? And how many people will rely on their memory of what the article says rather than checking back and finding the annotations?

I'm not dumping on you, Ryu. I happen to think you and Tres are both very nice people and both of you have treated me well despite our different opinions. I appreciate your consideration and efforts to put the annotations in. But I am worried about the stated inaccuracies and how many fans will rely on memory rather than finding the annotations.

If you do not want to revise the old article, then why not do a new article about what the FTOIL page really says?

I'll shut up now.

Anastar, it's just one thread. Stick around and post in other non-LTD related threads.

Thank you, Elena

 

[Lex]

For the last time, we're moving away from LTD content on the front page at least until there's substantial new information. No new articles on the LTD. I might even consider putting an executive moratorium on it until all the remake "parts" are released. This is without going into talking about the fact that what you consider inaccuracies might be a difference of opinion rather than actually being inaccurate.

Our focus should be on promoting the kind of work Shademp has put into the site here, with unused text, scenes, game digging. Coverage of news, exclusive translations, exciting fan works, merch etc. Not a 20 year old shipping war.

 

[Anastar]

For the last time, we're moving away from LTD content on the front page at least until there's substantial new information. No new articles on the LTD. I might even consider putting an executive moratorium on it until all the remake "parts" are released.

Okay, I only made a suggestion. I remember Tres coming to the CA forums and informing me that I had made an inaccurate statement on my website. When I checked it out, I discovered that he was right - so I corrected it the error.

This is without going into talking about the fact that what you consider inaccuracies might be a difference of opinion rather than actually being inaccurate.

If it's merely a difference of opinion, then why do Tres and Ryu agree with me? If they didn't agree, they wouldn't have agreed to do the annotations.

Our focus should be on promoting the kind of work Shademp has put into the site here, with unused text, scenes, game digging. Coverage of news, exclusive translations, exciting fan works, merch etc. Not a 20 year old shipping war.

I have nothing against that whatsoever.

 

[Tetsujin]

I see the ltd as the ark of the covenant. I like it safe and contained and in case someone opens that particular can of worms, I look away and hope it doesnt melt my face

 

[Cthulhu]

CxB is canon anyway.


*runs*

 

[Jason Tandro]

CxB is canon anyway.


*runs*

Really changes the meaning of HEADcanon doesn't it?

offensive joke about how aerith is probably good at headcanon too because of how much time in the game she is on her knees.

 

[Tennyo]

CxB is canon anyway.


*runs*

Well I mean, they ARE the only date that has a trophy in the PS4 port.

 

[Anastar]

CxB is canon anyway.


*runs*

Really changes the meaning of HEADcanon doesn't it?

offensive joke about how aerith is probably good at headcanon too because of how much time in the game she is on her knees.

Well at least you stay on topic

I see the ltd as the ark of the covenant. I like it safe and contained and in case someone opens that particular can of worms, I look away and hope it doesnt melt my face

Ah, c'mon.... at the most, this'll only give you a slight sunburn and that's only if you're not wearing sunblock.

I'm simply questioning the accuracy of a source of information that's used by both sides of the debate. That's very different from debating which side is canon or which side won - that's the kind of stuff that can result in face melt.

 

[Splintered]

that's the kind of stuff that can result in face melt.

Nah, all of LTD is a huge cavern of despair and horror, waiting to suck in the naive into endless wandering, where there is no hope of leave. You think to yourself, "Just one debate, just one, because they are misinterpreting a character, it's not really ltd" but then BAM, ten anonymous with questionable grammar in your message box, ready to call you stupid, tell you to kill yourself, and link you to a billion sites with a billion different articles on websites you don't care about.

Fly you fools. Winter is coming.

 

[Geostigma]

Me prepping for the eventual resurrection of the LTD

 

[Octo]

Fly you fools. Winter is coming.

Did you...did you just mix LOTR with Game of Thrones?!

 

[Cthulhu]

Can I ban her for that heresy?

edit: him. it. what is it, precious?

 

[Jason Tandro]

Can I ban her for that heresy?

edit: him. it. what is it, precious?

So you're asking Splintered... what does it have in its pocketeses?

#2FOR2 #goddamnitshutupjasonnobodylikesyou