Female Protagonists In Gaming

[Octo]

Granted, she's not the main character but oh well

What game is that from?

 

[ForceStealer]

Nier.

 

[Hisako]

Prounounced "Nyehhhhhhhhh this game's okay."

Bad joke.

Also interesting to note that for the western release of the game they put a roided-up man-hulk in as the player character, whereas in the JP version the player model was a more effeminate, skinny dude with the same hugeass sword and more animu hair.
Different strokes for different... cultures and sensibilities, I suppose.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah that was kinda strange. He didn't seem all that roided up to me. He was no Kratos or Fenix, anyway.

He does have the same voice as Reeve in English though

 

[Strangelove]

Japan actually got two versions, with slightly different titles I don't quite remember now (Nier Gestalt and Replica? is what I will call them). 'Gestalt' was released for the 360 and is the version released in the West on both 360 and PS3, whereas Replica was only released for the PS3 and only in Japan, featuring the less bulky looking hero.

 

[Danseru-kun]

What bothers me is when feminists complain about women being objectified in games/media the guys will say "hey men get objectified too, look at the big muscles.*

LOL that's not objectification because those unrealistic muscles isn't the feature women desires but actually the fantasies of the male audience too. As for the women, who actually fantasizes to have DD cup and fight without bra and wear a thong in a hostile environment? As far as fantasies go I wanna wear something like this:

Spoiler: Saber Lily

not like this

Many guys don't realize that women with large breasts jumping, fighting and running without chest support is the same as guys without any briefs.

Okay I know this is about female protags rather than female portrayal but I think they're related so it's okay.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^This! The entire point of armor is... protection... and females rarely wear any of it... We need more female armor that looks like Vanilla Skyrim's female armor, that armor actually looks like it works.

 

[Tetsujin]

I want Kojima to make that MGS game about The Boss. =<

 

[Danseru-kun]

Again, speaking of female protagonists. I had heated arguments before on Queen's Gate. I was ranting on how it degraded further my favorite character Dizzy, but then some guys argue that this is feminism because the women are powerful in the game and the only playable male character is weak.

It's not. Just because the women are powerful it means it promotes feminism. I know the genre of the game is ecchi but don't expect women to like it just because it has strong female heroines.

The opening is the cleanest part of the game btw.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Now hold on, men sometimes get to wear armor that barely protects anything in video games, too. Just look at Reks's "armor" in FFXII. And in those women's defense, armor is fucking heavy, and can slow you down, so sometimes wearing a little less armor can be beneficial. Now why those women tend to wear less aror on area's such as the legs and the midriff, well you'll have to ask them.

 

[ForceStealer]

Now hold on, men sometimes get to wear armor that barely protects anything in video games, too.

Although, since you mention FFXII,

Spoiler: Of all the places to have an opening in your armor

But I don't think it's that guys don't realize that a woman with huge, unsupported breasts could do all these acrobatic things...they just don't much care.
Still though, I know lots of guys that are pleasantly surprised when a woman is portrayed in practical armor, many find it more alluring, even.

 

[Ghost X]

Time to list some games where women wear functional armour .

 

[Splintered]

This reminds me of a discussion about Tifa's jiggle physics in Dissidia, and how some fangirls demanded jiggle physics on Kuja's thong as an equivalent.

I just wanted to share the mental image.

 

[Octo]

KRAMER KUJA: How do you wear these things!! Look at that--they're baggin' up, they're rising in! An' there's nothing holding me in place! I'm flippin'! I'm floppin'!

Time to list some games where women wear functional armour .

1. Metroid
2. Er.....
3. Thats it.

Actually there are probably more...I would have said Femshep but then its kind of obvious the armour is trying to define the boob area needlessly. Then again man Shep looks like he's wearing a codpiece so....equality?

 

[Fighter]

Gears of War women are pretty good that way:

 

[Octo]

Its funny that everyones upper arms are exposed, but then they don't seem to have helmets either

 

[Splintered]

Its funny that everyones upper arms are exposed, but then they don't seem to have helmets either

Helps them see snipers?

Anyway I showed this awhile ago, it's dated but it's interesting. Hate to bring it up again, but the difference between this video and Tropes vs Women is that this video is inherently aimed at gamers while hers is aimed at feminists, so it just rings better with gamers in general.

 

[null]

Salarians make such great presentations

 

[X-SOLDIER]

What bothers me is when feminists complain about women being objectified in games/media the guys will say "hey men get objectified too, look at the big muscles.*

LOL that's not objectification because those unrealistic muscles isn't the feature women desires but actually the fantasies of the male audience too. As for the women, who actually fantasizes to have DD cup and fight without bra and wear a thong in a hostile environment? As far as fantasies go I wanna wear something like this:

Spoiler: Saber Lily

Spoiler: not like this

Many guys don't realize that women with large breasts jumping, fighting and running without chest support is the same as guys without any briefs.

Okay I know this is about female protags rather than female portrayal but I think they're related so it's okay.

I have a really tough time personally imagining being a big, muscled brute of a man actually being a male fantasy, but I will certainly acknowledge that it is. I guess it's always a bit odd to realize that there's a demographic that will find a part of a character that they really enjoy that others just don't connect with at all.


On that note, this next bit is slightly tangentially related to the topic, but connects to your response here, and I promise that I will bring it back around.


Although it's a film, my girlfriend at the time absolutely LOVED the movie Sucker Punch. It was an incredibly empowering film for her, especially because she did/does a lot of alternative modeling, and the fantasy sequences in the film paralleled the type of style that she tends to envision for herself. She ended up being really hurt by some folks who basically trashed it as being anti-feminist, and nothing but male fantasy, and basically equated her personal fantasy vision as being meaningless.

There needs to be a general acknowledgement that having a sexy character doesn't mean that it's innately anti-feminist or strictly a "male power fantasy" (connected to how muscled man isn't always a male fantasy). I think that the biggest issue is that it's that there's a demographic of the female fantasy type that's significantly underrepresented as main characters - characters like the ones you linked images of.


That Gears of War image does a really good job, because the characters of BOTH genders are strongly-muscled, heavily-armored characters. The characters fit the requirements of the story's environment regardless of their gender. That's the disparity that bothers me the most, and why the "bikini armored girls" are so obnoxious - they're key females being inserted into a game, where they don't match the environment in a realistic way. If you're going to be a fast character, you're going to go with light full-covering armor, in order to fight effectively - not wear bikini plate mail. It's just like a game starring the ladies from Gears of War adding in Kuja, so that they have a male character - that would be stupid.

Honestly, I'd really like to see more female characters kicking ass and taking name in any form, so long as they match the design of the story environment.


X

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

It's just like a game starring the ladies from Gears of War adding in Kuja, so that they have a male character - that would be stupid.


:

Actually, I think including Kuja in a game starring the ladies from Gears of War would be interesting.It raises a lot of questions. Is the game canon to FFIX?,
How did Kuja get in the Gears of War world?, etc. Someone should totally write a FFIX/Gears of War crossover fic with this premise.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Adorably related: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/susanwilson/9-year-old-building-an-rpg-to-prove-her-brothers-w



X

 

[Ryushikaze]

I would totally dig a modern Zelda game where she is the actual bonefide lead. She could easily carry a title and deserves more than a shitty CD-I role reversal.

She had two. The second was just as shitty in a different way.

Female character seen to come in only 3 flavors (most of the time). You got your victims, Princess Toadstool. You got your overt lesbians, Cammy. And you got your superficially female, Samus.

Cammy is an overt Lesbian? Wha?

Lin from Days of Ruin is a pretty strong character, haven't beaten the game yet, but I like how she's written

Spoiler

especially during the chapter where she confronts Greyfield. Yeah, she keeps handing off the leadership so far to everyone else, but that's because she says she's way too harsh for people to follow her, like a badass.

Plus she has a lot of random funny moments, especially during those mission tutorials. An all around fleshed out character.

Lin is best character and is quite honestly the actual brains of the outfit. She's not people oriented, however, which is why Brenner and Will are 'Leader'

Watched the first video. Nothing groundbreaking, really, seemed more like an overview of the trope than anything else, but it was presented quite well. Having watched them both, the rebuttal doesn't really hold up that well at all, IMO - it comes off as trying to show that feminist analysis is useless without truly understanding it or the point of the first video.

About Zelda specifically, I was kind of hoping the first video would talk more about how great TP Zelda was. Yeah, she had to surrender the kingdom and she gets possessed, but iirc there was never a super clear connection between when she helped Link and Midna and ending up trapped in Hyrule Castle, unless I'm totally forgetting something. She helps out at the end with the light arrows again, too. And yeah, it would be nice if Zelda had her own game (beyond the cd-i one ), I mean if Tingle can get a spinoff game, surely Zelda should too.

@ the general thread topic, I don't think there's necessarily a lack of female protagonists overall, although it's true that not as many have a long running series, but that it's more an issue of having well written ones. Personally, I tend to like it when there's not a big deal about the main character's gender, like with Samus (ignoring Other M's existence), since trying too hard to make a strong female character runs the risk of ultimately being really annoying.

Other M screwed the pooch so hard. The issues it was trying to talk about- family, abandonment, betrayal, loss of friends- especially due to your own failure- should have been something that rung true regardless of gender, but the presentation was so fucked up it made Samus an overly dependent, prone to emotional breakdown wuss. Hell, even small changes could have helped immensely, like having Ridley get the drop on her and Anthony and her thinking Anthony died because she failed to realize the thread of midget Ridley before getting her shit together and resolving to kick his ass harder than ever before would have helped.

This is why Tenchi Muyo needed a game (probably was one in Japan, I dunno), lots of strong and varied women characters. The men were funny and had their own qualities, but the sheer lady numbers meant that depth, humour and individuality were a must.

There were at least two, including a Tenchi Tactics game.

Whatever the speaker's agenda, the first video was articulate and straightforward. She identified what she considers to be a problem, explained why it's a problem, and provided supporting examples of the problem. She made her points in a manner that can be either verified or refuted in an orderly fashion. That lends itself to productive discussion. Most importantly, she didn't overtly insult my intelligence. I thought there were a few glaring omissions but then she's apparently doing a series, so I'll withhold criticism for the moment.

The rebuttal video would have been much better served if it had responded in kind, counterpoint by counterpoint. Instead the speaker did the forum equivalent of flaming a few cherry-picked phrases from a very long post, while attacking things she said outside the thread or even the forum. His rebuttals are mostly condescending straw men.

But *shrug* I know nothing of the two speakers outside the videos. For all I know the feminist could be a huge douchebag and the second could generally align more closely with my views.

Dunno much about Anita, but ThunderFoot's been being generally kind of an asshole recently. It's entirely possible for both to be douchebags for different things, though.

Yeah,I say more female main character games and that also includes middle age and elderly women too.I think player elderly and middle age women should appear more in fighting games because why not elderly and middle aged men do all the time.

There are a couple here and there, but not a whole hell of a lot, really.

Time to list some games where women wear functional armour .

Fire Emblem 1-13, with a few odd and deliberate exceptions, has females in tanky classes being tanky in their armor choices.
Final Fantasy 6, Tactics, and 13- Females wear as effective armor as the males in those games, sometimes more effective. This is often more indicative of how bad the armor is in general, though. No boob windows, however.
Elder Scrolls games- female guards and fighter's guild folks will wear the same armor as the men, more or less.
I'll try and think of more when I'm not so tired.
Does it count if no one's wearing functional armor, but the woman are at least as clothed as the men?

Also, Fire Emblems 7 and 8 have female main characters, though 7 she's THE main for only part of the story, and 8 lets you switch to a male main character halfway through if you want. She's also kind of an idiot.
FE13 has a female major protaganist who isn't the main character but is a major proactive force in her own right.

 

[Hisako]

Adorably related: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/susanwilson/9-year-old-building-an-rpg-to-prove-her-brothers-w



X

a-aaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Does it count if no one's wearing functional armor, but the woman are at least as clothed as the men?

Yes.

I'd say that Ayla in Chrono Trigger is a perfect example of a scantily clad female character being totally justified in wearing her fur bikini, because that's what all of the other people from her time are dressed like. Come to think of it, I'd say that Chrono Trigger did a pretty good job with having a good diversity of likable male & female characters who are all appropriately designed.

I'd even say that Chrono Cross also did pretty decently in this respect. There are a good number of other awesome female characters (my favorite characters from that series are actually the girls). Hell, Schala & Kid both needed rescuing, but I wouldn't totally qualify them as damsels in distress, because they're trapped by single-handedly restraining the most powerful evil entity ever. Cross isn't quite as good as Trigger for that reason, but I'd still say that they're pretty good about having awesome female characters.


X

 

[Ami]

I've always found the lack of female protagonists in gaming disappointing. When I try and think of some, the main answers I come up with are Lara Croft, Lightning and Ruby from WET.

Hoping that two games I've preordered in the future, Remember Me and Beyond: Two Souls, have some great strong female protagonists. It feels like this is the one industry I'm frustrated with that doesn't have them. The TV and movie industry have them, so why not the gaming one?

I even heard Remember Me was rejected by several publishers because of the lead's gender and wouldn't be successful. Quite sexist, if you ask me.

I'd also post the link for the above, but unfortunately, I need at least 5 posts to do so. xD