FF12 or FF13

[Zealkin]

Two new games in the series that everyone had mixed feelings about, both deviated from the norm, but which did you like better?

Personally I liked ff12 better, it was fun to just run around and do all sorts of quests and hunts. It gave you free reign to do whatever the heck you wanted, and the political storyline and intrigue was something different, and I really enjoyed it. license board was a bitch though..

There's nothing wrong with having a mission, like in ffx, but I think ff13 took that too far. I like having some free reign while playing final fantasies, and even though X had some restrictions, the way it opened up was different and the story kept me hooked.

So thought, opinions, and the like?

 

[Zee]

xiii because of lesbians

 

[Celes Chere]

FF12 for me. It has a more unique and interesting story line, a handful of awesome characters, and extremely fun and addicting side quests. I also like that it seems a bit more on the futuristic side, but still keeps it's grip on fantasy as the major theme. FF13 didn't really feel much like FF to me... it felt sort of like a different game that was ripping off of other FFs. The story line lacked in every way, and most of the characters weren't as likeable or as developed as the characters we've seen in other games. FF13 wasn't even a fun game to play imo, so that's why I've been so on the fence about looking into getting FFXIII-2. You can watch all the gameplay you like beforehand, but until you actually play it it's hard to judge what it'll be like.

 

[Marle]

FF12 because Balthier.

But seriously, I didn't mind FF13. It's definitely my least favorite FF on the whole but it wasn't terrible. Just not as good? The characters, on the whole, were fine. It was the plot and game play that never settled well with me. I found FF12 to have a better told storyline and overall, more fun to play.

Because of better told story, I was more attached to the characters in FF12 than FF13 which sucks because I think the FF13 cast had all this great potential. :T

But meh, opinions.

 

[ForceStealer]

In sheer terms of which was the better crafted game, FFXII wins hands down. The decision's a little tougher for me personally. As such all following statements are 100% opinion.

Both games weak points were their casts, for me. 50% of XIII's was just annoying, whereas XII's was just almost wholly forgettable. Similarly both casts have someone that saves it from being a complete wash - Balthier and Sazh, respectively (and they are two very difference characters, just as a point of note). I really like Lightning too and have no qualms with Fang...so it comes down to whether having more memorable characters is worth the price of really annoying ones. Beats me.

I like the worlds in both games. FFXII gets a bonus because I love FFTactics and therefore have a predisposition towards Ivalice (and I kinda wsh there was jsut a bit more connecting it to Tactics), but it's breadth, variety, and sheer size is remarkable. It's the only Final Fantasy that gives the feeling that a game like Oblivion or Skyrim would it terms of area to explore. For all the complaining about XIII's lack of exploration, I and XII are pretty much the ONLY FFs where I felt like I was actually exploring. And Rabanastre is one of the most living, breathing virtual cities I've ever seen in a video game, it's up there with Midgar. (And it has great music.)
XIII's world it also pretty cool and mysterious. The idea of this pantheon of (demi?)gods that each serves a specific function is a really cool one. Titan manages the food chain, Phoenix provides power to cocoon, Carbuncle the food, another tills the land, so on and so forth. Pretty neat. They squandered it, but nonetheless I was interested.

The gameplay is where XIII gets it's large boost for me. I had an absolute blast with the battle system and happily did every single Cie'th mission just for more of it. It's fast, and despite what people say, it is very strategic, it's just a wildly different strategy from the rest of the series. Traditionally, FF is a very lower-level, micromanaging strategy and I love that don't get me wrong. But I enjoyed XIII's higher-level 'big picture' strategy every bit as much. The fact that you're selecting auto-battle isn't the point (although the game doesn't do itself any favors by literally making that all you do for like 2 hours in the beginning), it's almost more akin to a real time strategy, selecting the right units rather than the right moves.
FFXII's was very traditional, and it was fine, I have no problems with it, it just took awhile to adjust to the fact that moving around doesn't actually have any bearing on anything, it's still the same numbers deciding whether you get hit or not. What really gives XIII the edge over XII is XII's incessant grindiness. You have to grind all the time in XII, and I was okay with it once or twice, but by the time I was about to go to Arcadia and once again every single random enemy was wiping the floor with me I was getting really tired of it. I never fled from battles, that should be enough.
XIII, on the other hand, not only doesn't require grinding while still having some tough-ass battles, but if you are stuck, grinding is NEVER the answer. I tried grinding once or twice for a hard boss, it didn't help at all. The problem was always the strategy with which I was approaching the battle (being too aggressive, not being aggressive enough, etc.) And I LOVE that.
Both games (once 13 opens up) do themselves a favor by having areas that are totally accessible but WAY out of your league, and I like that too. It gives the world some life, rather than seeming like it was built for you and you alone.

Again, XII is unquestionably the more complete game, but they both have their fair-share of questionable decisions. XIII's are more broad in scope, the lack of towns, the 20-hour "tutorial" phase before you can actually get to the meat of the gameplay, the lack of sidequests. Why is the upgrade system COMPLETELY blind unless you use a guide?

XII's are more niggling. With the aforementioned grindiness, WHY oh why do the Marks not give you experience? I mean seriously, that would at least be something to strive for and hide the fact that you're "grinding." But nope, they give you jack shit in terms of experience. How does that even make sense? Were my characters not there? How did they not learn how to become better fighters by that battle?
And the sidequests, while plentiful, don't really have any variety to them, it's all more combat. There's no REAL diversion from the gameplay, but really I don't think they've done that very well since VII, so maybe it's better that they don't try.
And why is the quest to get the best weapon in the game so stupid. Not only is it arbitrary as hell, it encourages you to NOT do what the game is at its best for - exploration. Like XIII's upgrading, it requires a guide (or being a shitty gamer and therefore not opening chests - of course who could blame you what with all the out of the way chests containing 1 gil), and that's dumb.


Whoa...that was longer than I thought. Because of the gameplay, I might have to give it to XIII personally. But I really did enjoy both games and I think I'm a happier person for it, so screw the haters

 

[Zealkin]

The Zodiac spear chest thing was really a bit much, old Dalans chest was one of the first few I opened on my first play through, and oops can't get the best weapon in the game I guess...

 

[looneymoon]

It's kind of hard when you're comparing two games which are pretty much the exact opposite of each other.

FFXII has a very open world and lots of exploration, but at the expense of a pretty dry cast of characters/doing lots of things that have virtually nothing to do with moving the plot.

FFXIII on the other hand is linear but is very driven by character development and plot movement.

It really hinges upon what type of game you prefer.

As for me... I put 12 because I clocked way more hours into that game than 13. While I enjoyed 13 for what it was, it's not something I really enjoy playing as a game. I'd rather just watch all the cut scenes as a movie if anything. Could never do that with 12 though.

 

[Flintlock]

The Zodiac spear chest thing was really a bit much, old Dalans chest was one of the first few I opened on my first play through, and oops can't get the best weapon in the game I guess...

You can still get it, but the chances are infinitesimally small unless you know how to abuse the RNG.

That game did suffer from the trope known as Guide Dang It far too much. Despite that, and despite the poor story and character development, I still enjoyed it. The first time I played it through I was pretty much in love with it by the time I got to the Ozmone Plain, but the rest of the game didn't live up to my expectations.

I've never played FFXIII but everything I've seen and read about it suggests I won't enjoy it very much at all.

 

[Zealkin]

You can still get it, but the chances are infinitesimally small unless you know how to abuse the RNG.

yeah i know, but it seems like such a heavy penalty for such a simple mistake, and one that is seemingly impossible to remedy.

And I agree the game is pretty guide reliant.

 

[Zee]

my longer answer:

i really couldn't get through XII. political stories are great, but the pacing was just off and the characters were either too bland or too underdeveloped for me to get invested in

i didn't care for the battle system at all. it's just not fun period and the license board was irritating as fuck

the soundtrack was also really forgettable which isn't a huge thing but unfortunate in an ff game, especially one with such a great world (i really do love ivalice). ix's fantastic locations were brought to life by the amazing soundtrack, treno being the perfect example.

xiii had issues with linearity, but i preferred the character driven story and fun gameplay, and i personally like the overall plot and FNC mythology.

 

[Celes Chere]

I actually dislike FFXII and FFXIII's soundtracks, lol. I couldn't tell you which one out of the two games I liked more or less. XD

 

[Masamune]

Gameplay - FFXIII's flaws have been done to death. Linearity at its absolute worst with not even the illusion of choice. Then we have the lack of towns, no NPC interaction, and no backtracking. FFXIII is NOT an RPG. Don't take my word for it - Ask the creator!

In terms of battle systems, FFXII remains my favourite to this day. The semi-real time ADB system made fighting seamless and was a step in the right direction for the series. I understand what they were trying to do with FFXIII's system, making the battles more 'actiony', but once the novelty wears off, you'll see that it takes far too much control away from the player. And having Game Over if the Party leader dies is a frustrating design flaw.

WINNER = FFXII

Story - I keep hearing that FFXIII's strong-point is its plot. Generally, an epic story can compensate for an average game. However, FFXIII's plot is simply a mess. There's so much that doesn't make sense. It's like they were making it up as they went along. Not to mention they catalogue everything that happens, which is a sorry excuse for bad writing. Also, I can't ignore how they were lazily ripping off aspects of FFXII *cough*Fal'cie = Occuria*cough*

WINNER = FFXII

Characters -I think it's a growing problem in popular fiction that angst = character development. Just because characters stop every five minutes to brood over their situation or make clichéd 'believe in urself' exchanges doesn't make them deep or three-dimensional. That's why, once again, I fail to get the whole 'FFXIII had better characterization' argument.

Like I said before, FFXII's cast felt more like real people to me rather than JRPG stereotypes. Perhaps the "character development" wasn't as pronounced as previous games but I prefer the 'less is more' approach than ramming characters down our throats. FFXII's main strength lies with its supporting cast. Characters like Vayne, Dr. Cid, Reddas, the Judge Magisters etc. were infinitely more memorable than Yaag Rosch, Jihl Nabaat or Snow's Jrock posse.

Art Design - FFXII without a doubt. It's a shame Akihiko Yoshida has been mostly limited to Ivalice games. He can weave both intricately beautiful and simplistic designs without resorting to Nomura's 'anything goes' approach. Nomura needs better direction from his superiors, because he has been spread too thin. He shamelessly rips off his own work in FFXIII (Snow = Seifer, Vanille = Yuna X-2) and you can see his limits throughout his other projects. Also, why does he insist on having his name plastered on everything SE these days?

In terms of the world building, FFXIII again has problems. Designing a futuristic, Tron-like setting, whilst trying to stick to traditional JRPG elements, doesn't work. And what with the Eidolons - Summons IN DISGUISE, we have a group of heroes equatable to Power Rangers. You could be forgiven for thinking a ten year old designed this game.

WINNER = FFXII

Visuals - Somewhat one-sided since FFXIII is a generation ahead of FFXII. Nevertheless, Squenix pushed the envelope again with FFXIII's graphics. It was easily one of the most visually stunning games on PS3 with beautiful fully rendered cutscenes and breathtaking cinematics.

WINNER = FFXIII

Music - Tough one. I admire the ambience of FFXII's score. Most of the tracks are complementary pieces, but there are still memorable tracks (Opening/Closing themes, Empire's theme, Giza Plains, The Phon Coast, to name but a few).

FFXIII also has a classy soundtrack, with some of the best battle themes of the series that are perfect for the frenetic, fast-paced sensibility of the battle system. And I loved the 'spacier' tunes as well (e.g. The Vestige, The Gapra Whitewood).

WINNER = TIE

Voice acting - I was surprised by the strength of FFXIII's voice acting. Apart from Vanille, whose voice is all over the place, the main characters were all good picks. Unfortunately, there's little the actors can do with the awkward, cringeworthy script they were handed. This is where Alexander O. Smith and the localization team's attention to detail with FFXII shines through. Points to FFXII.

WINNER = FFXII

 

[Zealkin]

I loved the voice acting in XII, Every time Fran speaks is a beautiful moment

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

12, personally I hated nearly everything about 13, from characters to battle system it all seemed like a massive pile of wank.

 

[Roger]

we have a group of heroes equatable to Power Rangers.

I felt that was the best thing about XIII.

I mean, for instance take XII's plot. Vaan and even Balthier and Basch, really are basically viewpoints to watch the political intrigue unfold from. They have their objectives, save Penelo, save Ashe, retrieve the Dawnshard, destroy the DuskShard it made sense for all along time but at the end of the game when the Strahl and the six people aboard it are the only people capable of saving Ivalice through sheer force of arms there isn't really a reason for it other then "they're the main characters and we need a big finale".

And I don't hold it against XII, the same is true in most stories.

But XIII is different, it doesn't ask you permit that the main characters are and will be more successful in overthrowing the villain then the rest of the world put together as a neccesary evil, it makes the explanation of which the center of plot.

Why is this random group of strangers travelling together? Why do they, and only they have to put their life on the line to fix the world right the hell now, why are they each one-man armies compared the rest of the world despite having probably less combat experience then most of the peple they are going up against? All things you generally just have to take for granted in most videogames because they are the player characters and the NPC are not but not in XIII.

And they did it in the early FFs too but here they aren't just selflessly and onedimensionally heroic, it's because their own asses are always on the line because the Cieth thing.

I really liked that. Screwed up a lot of other stuff (I still voted XII) don't get me wrong..

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Yeah but in 12 you at least have the concept that you can travel back and forward through various paths and essentially work your way through levels your way.
13 just has a set path in a set order and is completely restricting and shit.

 

[Masamune]

And I don't hold it against XII, the same is true in most stories.

But XIII is different, it doesn't ask you permit that the main characters are and will be more successful in overthrowing the villain then the rest of the world put together as a neccesary evil, it makes the explanation of which the center of plot.

Why is this random group of strangers travelling together? Why do they, and only they have to put their life on the line to fix the world right the hell now, why are they each one-man armies compared the rest of the world despite having probably less combat experience then most of the peple they are going up against? All things you generally just have to take for granted in most videogames because they are the player characters and the NPC are not but not in XIII.

And they did it in the early FFs too but here they aren't just selflessly and onedimensionally heroic, it's because their own asses are always on the line because the Cieth thing.

The only (and most fundamental) problem with that is there is no inciting incident that really pushes them through Act 1. They were tasked with destroying Cocoon, they didn't WANT to destroy Cocoon, and had no reason to DO so. So most of the events after them becoming L'cie are simply one contrivance after another to get them from point A to point B (much like the gameplay). Like I said, none of it actually makes any sense and it should receive no credit for its slipshod storytelling that's fo' sure. Sheeeeet, they even KNOW they're being played Barthandelus at one point and STILL willingly go along with his plan, because... plot? Not to worry, I'm sure it's all explained in the datalog or Ultimania or whatever. That's cool.

 

[Lumina]

Ok, now I will write my own opinion in my personal words. There is no tie in here for me, I'd definitely go all the way with Final Fantasy XIII.

Characters:
I found the original characters to be more interesting in XIII. In 12 the only character I could stand were Balthier and Ashe...other than that it was like driving through boredom. Each character in Final Fantasy XIII has this story well.. i just liked it more and it was a bit more closer to me.

Game Play & Equipment:
I don't need to bother on this. XIII all the way. The license system was as lame as watching Barney the dinosaur for three hours straight. I got bored of it, and if you didn't know how to deal with it, then too bad. Your characters would be messed up as fuck.

Overall, I LOVED XIII, unlike XII which was a big deception. And well, yeah the story in XIII is kind of messed up if you don't look for the info, but once you look for it, it becomes more enjoyable than XII.

 

[Roger]

The only (and most fundamental) problem with that is there is no inciting incident that really pushes them through Act 1. They were tasked with destroying Cocoon, they didn't WANT to destroy Cocoon, and had no reason to DO so. So most of the events after them becoming L'cie are simply one contrivance after another to get them from point A to point B (much like the gameplay). Like I said, none of it actually makes any sense and it should receive no credit for its slipshod storytelling that's fo' sure. Sheeeeet, they even KNOW they're being played Barthandelus at one point and STILL willingly go along with his plan, because... plot? Not to worry, I'm sure it's all explained in the datalog or Ultimania or whatever. That's cool.

What contrivances? They run from authority, this takes them to different areas, that's not a contrivance, that's the only way travel works. It's hardly a contrivance if your random direction only takes you to random places of little or no importance.
Hope having a dad that people think he should visit before he turns into a zombie isn't a contrivance either, lots of people have dads. I'm surprised Sazh and Snow never stop to think that maybe they hould give their parents a call before they die, or think to ask Vanille after her family. After that Vanille and Sazh got caught, the remaining l'Cie ally themselves with Raines' cause to free Cocoon and after rescuing the two Barty decided to put them on firmer railroad tracks.

I dunno where we ever need to see the datalog or Ultimania or just chalk it up to plot. Dysley made the Palamecia malfunction, put their only escape route on auto pilot to the Ark, made their only way out of the Ark a way to Pulse, made the only way out of Pulse (after discovering there's absolutely nothing of interest there) another auto-pilot to Eden, then they go to stop the Cavalry from the destroying Cocoon.

When Cecil shipwrecks on that island where the only place he can go for help just happens to be that place he attacked last week and the ordeal they want him to endure just happens to involve his father and just happens to have atracted the attention of an ally he parted with, THAT'S plot, that's contrived.

XIII crew never just happen upon some place of significance. They happen upon places of complete insignifance. The closest thing to that that XIII has to offer is Sazh deciding to go to Nautilus, a place his son used to whine about every now and then, because it's in their general direction. Thats hardly the same. Sazh is a local airline pilot, he'd probably have something to say about any destination they could've picked.

 

[Zee]

I'm surprised Sazh and Snow never stop to think that maybe they hould give their parents a call before they die, or think to ask Vanille after her family.

Well, Snow's an orphan, but aside from that it's pretty much explained within the story that people fear Pulse l'cie so much there were only two options:

1) your family/friends are so scared of the pulse l'cie they sell you out or
2) in the case of hope's dad, they help you out and only become and "undesirable" themselves

The only (and most fundamental) problem with that is there is no inciting incident that really pushes them through Act 1. They were tasked with destroying Cocoon, they didn't WANT to destroy Cocoon, and had no reason to DO so.

Well that was kinda the point?? I personally liked that they didn't really know what to do and that they split up trying to figure it out.

 

[Zealkin]

It's just my opinion but 13's characters did nothing for me at all, I felt like every interaction was forced and painful, and I found myself waiting through the games first 20 hours to find that special something that would get me hooked, and needless to say it never came :/

It was the plot and the characters that got me completely disenchanted with a game I had anticipated for a while. I kept looking for excuses for it and just ended up more frustrated.
I'm not sure exactly who told me more about Lightning's history but learning about that made me appreciate her character more, most background information does, but it got me to understand why she was the way she was. But having to like a character from an outside source and not the original game? I felt like that adding more of the characters back story, would have made them more relatable, but it just never happened in a way that seemed believable(Sazh is an exception)

Just my 2 cents on ff13 anyway..

Not to say 12 didn't have flaws, but I loved the characters, even Vaan and Ashe at some points. That's what made the game for me.

 

[Lumina]

Well that was kinda the point?? I personally liked that they didn't really know what to do and that they split up trying to figure it out.

If I keep reading your posts I shall marry each one of them. The point was to fight against their destiny, by not wanting to destroy Cocoon; which is the whole purpose of the game. Going against what people expect you to do. If you think about it, this is also a big key in Final Fantasy XII, except that they were rebels fighting against a kingdom while the XIII cast was running trying to save themselves and saving a loved one. The story had so many arcs that I found it entertaining and disturbing at moments and yeah, it got boring at some moments, but... What game doesn't? Ok no, I lie but yeah.

It's just my opinion but 13's characters did nothing for me at all, I felt like every interaction was forced and painful, and I found myself waiting through the games first 20 hours to find that special something that would get me hooked, and needless to say it never came :/

That's my way of seeing XII's characters. Except for Ashe and Balthier who had interesting stories.

Damn I hope I got myself clear xD

 

[Celes Chere]

Serah Farron didn't vote for FFXIII?!

 

[Masamune]

Overall, I LOVED XIII, unlike XII which was a big deception. And well, yeah the story in XIII is kind of messed up if you don't look for the info, but once you look for it, it becomes more enjoyable than XII.

Yeah, I mean if you don't try to make sense of it, then dee stori iz awsum.

...But it's not. It's sloppy-ass bullshit, which is why they felt the need to provide cliff notes to try and fill the gaping fissures they call a plot.

What contrivances? They run from authority, this takes them to different areas, that's not a contrivance, that's the only way travel works. It's hardly a contrivance if your random direction only takes you to random places of little or no importance.

Um.. that's my point? There's no direction to the writing. Characters should have an end goal in mind, not fumbling around randomly, hoping they'll happen upon something to progress the plot. Watch any good 'on the run' movie and you'll know what I mean. Terminator 2, for example.

Hope having a dad that people think he should visit before he turns into a zombie isn't a contrivance either, lots of people have dads.

FINAL FANTASY XIII.... MEETING THE PARENTS!

Also, dipshit move. If I was being chased by stormtroopers, the last place I'd visit is my family home, endangering innocent people.

I'm surprised Sazh and Snow never stop to think that maybe they hould give their parents a call before they die, or think to ask Vanille after her family. After that Vanille and Sazh got caught, the remaining l'Cie ally themselves with Raines' cause to free Cocoon and after rescuing the two Barty decided to put them on firmer railroad tracks.

I dunno where we ever need to see the datalog or Ultimania or just chalk it up to plot. Dysley made the Palamecia malfunction, put their only escape route on auto pilot to the Ark, made their only way out of the Ark a way to Pulse, made the only way out of Pulse (after discovering there's absolutely nothing of interest there) another auto-pilot to Eden, then they go to stop the Cavalry from the destroying Cocoon.

Barthandelus wanted them to destroy Cocoon, albeit it by bringing down Orphan. I don't know why why exactly... I stopped caring by that point (if the creators don't make the effort, why should I?). So what do our intrepid heroes do.... FIGHT ORPHAN. How abouuut... NOT fighting Orphan? But no, they decide to go ahead with it anyway and just pray that some deus ex machina takes place and everyone lives happily ever after.

And again, more contrivance with Dysley/Barthandelus dumping them in random locations for the hell of it, because the writers needed a convenient plot device to move them to the next scene.

XIII crew never just happen upon some place of significance. They happen upon places of complete insignifance. The closest thing to that that XIII has to offer is Sazh deciding to go to Nautilus, a place his son used to whine about every now and then, because it's in their general direction. Thats hardly the same. Sazh is a local airline pilot, he'd probably have something to say about any destination they could've picked.

They have no idea what they're doing the entire game. They leave Cocoon, go to Pulse, find shit there, and decide to go back to Cocoon. The writers couldn't think of genuine reasons to get the characters from one point to the next, so they made it up as they went along.

FFXIII is just a bunch of stuff that happens.

 

[Roger]

Yeah, I mean if you don't try to make sense of it, then dee stori iz awsum.

I'm not trying to say that the story is awesome.

Um.. that's my point? There's no direction to the writing. Characters should have an end goal in mind, not fumbling around randomly, hoping they'll happen upon something to progress the plot. Watch any good 'on the run' movie and you'll know what I mean. Terminator 2, for example.

Yeah, and in Terminator 2, or FFIV, or most other stories, they DO just happen to stumble on more or less what they were hoping for. In FFXIII, they don't. They don't get anywhere unless Barty puposefully takes them there.

FINAL FANTASY XIII.... MEETING THE PARENTS!

AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING IT'S GOOD, I AM SAYING IT'S NOT GUILTY OF WHAT YOU ACCUSING IT OFF. Being a contrivance. Having parents isn't a contrivance or plot, contrary to what you were saying.

Also, dipshit move. If I was being chased by stormtroopers, the last place I'd visit is my family home, endangering innocent people.

If I was 14 year old kid, and I suddenly had 2 weeks to live, I might just decide to risk it.

Barthandelus wanted them to destroy Cocoon, albeit it by bringing down Orphan. I don't know why why exactly... I stopped caring by that point (if the creators don't make the effort, why should I?). So what do our intrepid heroes do.... FIGHT ORPHAN. How abouuut... NOT fighting Orphan? But no, they decide to go ahead with it anyway and just pray that some deus ex machina takes place and everyone lives happily ever after.

As opposed to what? Just keep letting it turn the civiliation into Focusless l'Cie, teleport dinosaurs into the cities until inevitably no one is left? It's not like it was ever gonna end. If the thing that controls all food, water, gravity, light, communications and transport in your world is hellbent on destroying the world it's gonna happen whether he can selfterminate or not.

And again, more contrivance with Dysley/Barthandelus dumping them in random locations for the hell of it, because the writers needed a convenient plot device to move them to the next scene.

We know why Barty brought them to Pulse and the Ark.

They have no idea what they're doing the entire game. They leave Cocoon, go to Pulse, find shit there, and decide to go back to Cocoon. The writers couldn't think of genuine reasons to get the characters from one point to the next, so they made it up as they went along.

They leave Cocoon because it' been wellestablished that nobody on Cocoon knows jackshit about l'Cie curses, and it's the only way out of the maze they were in anyway, find out there's nothing left on Pulse, so they return plus Dysley was ready to start a war on Cocoon if they didn't do something.

I don't know what's so complicated to understand. They went to Pulse for help. Everything on Pulse was dead or dstroyed, so their reason for being there was eliminated. This isn't something that requires tremendous research of the datalog and Ultimania to wrap your head around.

FFXIII is just a bunch of stuff that happens.

Yeah, I agree. Or in other words, as far as it gets from being dictated by any sort of real plot as it gets.

If they ever just actually happened upon some place of significance that could help them get off those tattoos by some contrivance for the sake of the plot, XIII would have been FAR better. But they don't.

Look. I'm not saying I like XIII's plot more then XII, I don't. Hell, I like XII's gameplay more then XIII's too.

But XII's characters are just plain out different people in and out of gameplay. People whine and whine and whine and whine about having to need to read the datalog to understand XIII, in XII's Ashe's line about the power of Mateus is the only line in the entire game that presents the party as anything special in combat ability. And it's a very throwaway line at that. Other then, you know, that they are casually stomping one superpowered judge/dragon/otherwise after another when the cutscenes end and they singlehandedly take on the Skyfortress Bahamut and win, they never talk like they are the superpowered magical warriors that they are. Quite the contrary.
XIII doesn't have that problem. Nor am I left wondering why none of the other Returners/SeeD's/Mysidian mages and former partymembers/citizens of the world can't be allowed to help us in the conflict. Nor am I left wondering why it has to happen now, lest the world ends (the world still seems about finished in XIII, but here at least you got these timebombs on you which means you either take a chance to do something now or you won't be around to help at all).

XIII's plot is hardly perfect, in fact it's not even good, but it takes care of several classic problems FF stories had in the past.