FFVII Fans *Read Me* Potential Spoiler

[Lifebond]

FFVII Future??

Hey everyone, going to throw an idea out there. Hope it sticks!

I'd like to take a deeper look into the Shinra. It's safe to say that Rufus Shinra is the head of the snake. After analyzing his antics, general demeanor of "running" his company. It is apparent to me that he is indeed the head of the Shinra snake...ON SURFACE.
Rufus Shinra's evil intent for greed is not questionable. His intent for pure evil IS questionable.

So Rufus can be viewed as the "face" and "voice" of Shinra. It would then impose the question "where does the pure evil intent of Shinra truly lie?

( Before reading on, take a look at the FFVII timeline if you have not already. Although it does not support what I am about to say, it surely does not discredit it! )

When looking at the Shinra Company as a whole. All of it's different facets, secrets, and past. It say's " Shadow Government "

I believe that Reeve could potentially be seed of corruption for Shinra. His characteristics are similar to that of a Palpatine / Emperor Sidious character. You could then understand that it was actually the intent of Reeve to summon the Omega, and organize the WRO. Perhaps the Omega summon would be a glimpse of obstacles for his next campaign. OH YEAH Let's not forget that if he had never done what he did in FFVII...that the chain of events that led up to Aerith's death may have been different....

Cheers,

Lifebond

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Um, I'm sorry, but I'm a bit confused. What are you trying to argue? I'm really not following. Could you clarify. I understand if English isn't your first language and I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just not sure what you're saying.

First of all, ShinRa was run by many people, the Board of Executives who at once point included President Shinra, Rufus Shinra, Lazard, Scarlet, Veld, Heidegger, Reeve, Hojo, and Palmer. By the original game, the board is down to President Shinra, Scarlet, Heidegger, Reeve, Hojo, Palmer and possibly Rufus Shinra (he's not in the city and it's not really clear if he plays much of a role).

What Rufus Shinra does in canon

2000:

Is appointed as Vice President
Spends the next 3 years aiding AVALANCHE, doing business trips and advising his father (mostly bad advise meant to sabotage Shinra's efforts to thwart AVALANCHE, who Rufus is backing).

2003:

Is arrested for aiding AVALANCHE and put under house arrest in Turk custody.

October 2007:

Is released from Turk custody.

Helps the Turks fake the death of their leader, Veld, the former leader of AVALANCHE, Elfe, and uses the faked assassination as evidence the Turks are loyal to Shinra and shouldn't be executed (because the President was paranoid and going to execute them at the time because they failed to bring in their former leader who defected when he found out AVALANCHE's leader was actually his long lost daughter). Reports all other Turks, aside from Reno, Rude and Tseng who were in Shinra custody, as killed in action so they can go into hiding with Veld.

Is sent to Junon and does not return until after his father is killed, perhaps because the President doesn't trust him enough to keep him too close, who knows.

December 2007

President Shinra is killed, Rufus becomes President and spends the rest of his Presidency trying to confront the threat of Sephiroth, WEAPONs, Meteor, and keep the peace.

2008

Survives Weapons attack on the building, is kidnapped (twice, first by a power mad sadist then by a mad scientist), is rescued, sets up a research facility to help fight geostigma. Spends the next few years investing geostigma, JENOVA, building Edge, and likely setting up the WRO alongside Reeve and Veld.

Rufus really didn't do much that actually had anything to do with running ShinRa. He wasn't in charge very long...

As for Reeve.

Reeve knew where Veld was after he defected from ShinRa in 2003 and aided him. He also likely aided the Turks who went into hiding (he knew how to contact them when Tseng didn't, he knew a lot more than the Turks did). Both actions were treason since President Shinra wanted all these people dead.

He then full out defects himself and aids AVALANCHE.

Then it's suggested he founded the WRO with Veld, and help from Rufus (whether the help was merely financial or if Rufus played a larger role is unknown).

I agree that Reeve is more dangerous than he lets on. He hides behind eccentricity, literally trying to come off as a harmless kitty cat, but he capable of deception and espionage. But he also didn't do much in terms of running Shinra.

President Shinra ran Shinra, along with the other executives who had their own agendas, Hojo, Scarlet, Heidegger, Palmer all had their own ambitions, Lazard and Rufus were both traitors whose agenda was treason...Lazard somewhat later because at first he cared about his men, Veld actually wanted to serve the company until he was put in a position to choose between Shinra and his daughter and picked family, and I have no idea what Reeve wanted other than to do his job help people when he could, doing whatever he thought was the right thing at the time.

The "evil" ShinRa company did seems mostly made up by the actions of President Shinra, the orders he gave.

Reeve is tricky, but I don't see any evidence of him being secretly evil.

The WRO was likely founded by Rufus, Reeve, and Veld and although they are former Shinra executives, they're the least evil of the board. Veld was director of the Turks, and he did a lot of bad things in that capacity, Reeve was on the board when the Plate was dropped and accepts culpability for what happened, and Rufus is pragmatic to the point of ruthlessness, but as far as ShinRa board goes they were far from the worst members.

 

[Lifebond]

thanks for the response. I read it, you make very valid points. everything i have wrote here is just possibilities. No worries about the language barriers, i have friends over seas. All of you information is correct, what I did connect lines of traits between a character from a ff7 and a character from Star Wars. The correlations are strikingly similar. I suspect due to culture differences, that Reeve would portray a more Far Eastern Version of Palpatine. Palpatine would be considered a Western Icon for a Tyrant in shadow government.

As far as Reeve being of help. I believe it is through his ability to manipulate people. That is a trait commonly seen in Palpatine from Star Wars,

In regards to the rest of the Shinra company, the high ranking chain of command. You are correct about how Lazard and everyone else that died. Do you know the motive for Lazards actions?


Through envy / jealousy was Lazard possibly manipulated by Reeve. I also think that Reeves parents at the Honey Bee Inn could possibly be a clue to who the real reeve is.

 

[Lifebond]

Reeve was the voice of the people. a Major component

 

[Lifebond]

when the Calamity fell from the Sky. It took over the people one by one. just as reeve can control mind of others. that trait makes reeve the most susceptible and compatible to jenova

 

[Roger]

Then it's suggested he founded the WRO with Veld,

Where is this?

But he also didn't do much in terms of running Shinra.

President Shinra ran Shinra, along with the other executives who had their own agendas, Hojo, Scarlet, Heidegger, Palmer all had their own ambitions, Lazard and Rufus were both traitors whose agenda was treason...Lazard somewhat later because at first he cared about his men, Veld actually wanted to serve the company until he was put in a position to choose between Shinra and his daughter and picked family, and I have no idea what Reeve wanted other than to do his job help people when he could, doing whatever he thought was the right thing at the time.

Okay I gotta disagree here. No damn way Reeve had less to do with the running of the company then freaking Palmer. The Space Program was around a very small number of years and after that funding was cut off completely. Reeve, Veld and Lazard all were Director of far more relevant branches. Midgar was Reeve's brainchild after all.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Where is this?

I'm pretty sure Reeve mentions to Vincent in Cerebus that WRO was financially backed by a mysterious benefactor who wants to make it up to the planet -- seeing as Rufus is the only guy thus far we know to have a money and reasons to do it, it's fair to assume it's him. Don't remember him implying Veld as well, though.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Okay I gotta disagree here. No damn way Reeve had less to do with the running of the company then freaking Palmer. The Space Program was around a very small number of years and after that funding was cut off completely. Reeve, Veld and Lazard all were Director of far more relevant branches. Midgar was Reeve's brainchild after all.

I never meant to imply that Reeve had less to do with running the company than Palmer, rather my point is that while most board members were focused on their own ambitions rather than the overall goals of company (i.e. Palmer just wanted his space program), Reeve designed Mako Reactors and ShinRa's city. Reeve's goal seemed to be doing his job.

Unlike President Shinra Reeve didn't set policies, or decide on what action the company would take and unlike Palmer he never pushed for anything. Palmer, though ineffective, did advocate for the Space Program, but I never saw Reeve as an advocate so much as an effective employee who was good at working in the shadows to serve his own agenda behind leadership's back.

Lifebond's argument is that

Reeve can control mind of others.

But I can't think of one instance of Reeve persuading the President to do anything.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I'm pretty sure Reeve mentions to Vincent in Cerebus that WRO was financially backed by a mysterious benefactor who wants to make it up to the planet -- seeing as Rufus is the only guy thus far we know to have a money and reasons to do it, it's fair to assume it's him. Don't remember him implying Veld as well, though.

In Case of Shinra, when the Turks ask Veld what he's going to do after Meteor Wall he replies that

“I will go to Junon again. Reeve is headed there.”

We don't know what Reeve was doing or why Veld wanted to see him. We don't see a lot of their relationship in Canon, what we know is that they were allies. Reeve helped Veld when he was in hiding during the events of BC and maintained contact with him during the events of the original game. Since Veld is going to see Reeve after Meteor Fall it is my inference that Veld may have played a role in the development of the WRO. Perhaps acting as a liaison between Reeve and Rufus to encourage the alliance because Reeve needs money and Rufus wants impact the world's recovery.

 

[Clement Rage]

I never meant to imply that Reeve had less to do with running the company than Palmer, rather my point is that while most board members were focused on their own ambitions rather than the overall goals of company (i.e. Palmer just wanted his space program), Reeve designed Mako Reactors and ShinRa's city. Reeve's goal seemed to be doing his job.

Unlike President Shinra Reeve didn't set policies, or decide on what action the company would take and unlike Palmer he never pushed for anything. Palmer, though ineffective, did advocate for the Space Program, but I never saw Reeve as an advocate so much as an effective employee who was good at working in the shadows to serve his own agenda behind leadership's back.

Lifebond's argument is that But I can't think of one instance of Reeve persuading the President to do anything.

We see a grand total of ONE board meeting. We don't know what Reeve does or doesn't do in ordinary meetings, what pull he does or doesn't have. He could easily push for things all the time. The difference between him and the rest of the board, is that he has no military force with personal loyalty to him (as far as we know), so he can't be as up front about it. When he does get lippy in late FF7, he gets arrested. I don't necessarily think he's a great manipulator, but he's not meek or harmless either. And there is no way he deliberately set off Omega, that would be a completely uncontrollable mess with no guarantee of not,l y';know, ending the world accidentally.

Scarlet and Heidi do work for the companies' aims, they're the ones who come up with the Huge Materia and Sister Ray plans.

In Case of Shinra, when the Turks ask Veld what he's going to do after Meteor Wall he replies that

“I will go to Junon again. Reeve is headed there.”

We don't know what Reeve was doing or why Veld wanted to see him. We don't see a lot of their relationship in Canon, what we know is that they were allies. Reeve helped Veld when he was in hiding during the events of BC and maintained contact with him during the events of the original game. Since Veld is going to see Reeve after Meteor Fall it is my inference that Veld may have played a role in the development of the WRO. Perhaps acting as a liaison between Reeve and Rufus to encourage the alliance because Reeve needs money and Rufus wants impact the world's recovery.

That , or "Listen, you stuck your neck out for my kid. Thanks, bro, I owe you a favour."
Alternatively "Listen, I need to build a condo for Felicia, any ideas?"

I think if Rufus had contact with Veld the Turks would know, and it would have come up. He has no reason to keep it a secret.

Fun fanfic idea: Reeve has Veld and some of his Turks against Rufus and his Turks in an espionage battle for control of the world and each other's loyalties.

Maybe the WRO backer is Palmer.

Edit: Actually, it could even be Reeve implicating Rufus to deflect attention from the fact that he'd been siphoning cash from Shinra for fifteen years while working for them, and was funding it all himself with laundered cash. I still don't think he's Palpatine, though. Reeve maybe had a stay out of the bloodbath and see what happens' policy, but no plan to be put in power. He'd need omniscience to pull that off, considering how chaotic FF7 was and how far down the line of succession he is.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

That , or "Listen, you stuck your neck out for my kid. Thanks, bro, I owe you a favour."
Alternatively "Listen, I need to build a condo for Felicia, any ideas?"

Or maybe they're secretly in love and want to be together. It's an under appreciated ship.

I think if Rufus had contact with Veld the Turks would know, and it would have come up. He has no reason to keep it a secret.

When would it have come up? The compilation doesn't go into how the WRO was formed and there's room for speculation about what happened between ACC and DoC.

Fun fanfic idea: Reeve has Veld and some of his Turks against Rufus and his Turks in an espionage battle for control of the world and each other's loyalties.

Maybe the WRO backer is Palmer.

Combine these ideas into a fanfic where Palmer pulls strings to take over the world while Reeve, Rufus, and the Turks factions are too busy squabbling for power.

On a more serious note, the Turk factions idea could be interesting, especially with Elena and Gun on opposing sides, and Rufus's Turks choosing to side against Veld, this could get nasty or not, bloodless espionage where they all still love each other and in the end Rufus and Reeve get married. It's an espionage romantic comedy.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think the lack of any new major installments for so long is making folks see conspiracy theories where there aren't any. Hard to believe it's been longer since Dirge came out than it was between the original game's release and the first release in the expanded Compilation.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

To chip in; part of the reason why Reeve is understated throughout the Compilation is because his job is running the infrastructure of Shinra's cities and public works. Unlike Heidegger who runs the military, Scarlet who runs the weapons development, and Hojo who runs the science department, Reeve's role in the company is more subtle than developing the superweapons, military campaigns, and science projects that Shinra likes to play world dominator with.

Positions like that fundamentally have more of a stage in a narrative where reactive, explosive events happen. However, Reeve's job is still vitally important, which is part of the reason why he's part of running the WRO, because his job actually involved keeping society running and nation building, which would be useful in a world wracked with disaster, as opposed to secret armies and Jenova blobs.

 

[Lifebond]

To make the enemy believe what they see is what evil villains do.

And I read and respect everyone's comments.

There needs to be more information on Cetra, and if they have descendants in other places

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Aerith being identified as "the last descendant of the Ancients" answered that question sufficiently, I think, though it is a curiosity how Ifalna became the last full-blooded Cetra.

 

[jazzflower92]

Aerith being identified as "the last descendant of the Ancients" answered that question sufficiently, I think, though it is a curiosity how Ifalna became the last full-blooded Cetra.

One could say the last known.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

One could if Ifalna weren't referred to as "the last pure-blooded Ancient" in places like Aerith's 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile (also refers to Aerith as "the last survivor of this race").

 

[Lifebond]

Aerith being identified as "the last descendant of the Ancients" answered that question sufficiently, I think, though it is a curiosity how Ifalna became the last full-blooded Cetra.

A possibility for Ifalna could be genetic manipulation from Shinra. A plausible scenario I think.