SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 13 Spoiler Discussion

rkss

rkss

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Me
But Cloud wore Shinra' grunt outfit, not soldier outfit and he was in a water pod. Or is this another Zack!Cloud' memory?
And why future polices don't want them to enter there? It's hard to understand what's going on...
There's high chance that we won't visit this place ever again.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Dunno, maybe you’re right about it being an imperfect flashback, so Cloud’s subconscious overlays himself with a Soldier uniform on, instead of his Shinra Grunt outfit.
Could also just be that the Remake team didn’t want to waste the manpower making/rendering Cloud’s grunt design yet if it would only be used for a second long flashback?
 
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Tetsujin

Tetsujin

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Tets
Okay, what even.

Why do we get to walk through the ruins of sector 7? Shouldn't it be, y'know, buried between tons of steel? Like, the entire thing is bizarre to me. I got annoyed at the train graveyard magically still being there in Dirge of Cerberus and here you can even walk through the slums still. Sure, everything is destroyed but it looks like they just went through a really bad earthquake rather than being flattened.

And Wedge is still ALIVE?

...what the fuck is this?

Oh yeah, Deepground is also there. Oof. :doh:
 
cold_spirit

cold_spirit

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Alex T
I'm keeping a log of my thoughts after each chapter. Here's Chapter 13!
  • It's pretty odd to me that the party is able to revisit the Sector 7 slums. In my head it should've been squashed like a pancake. However, let's look at the logistics. After rewatching the end of Chapter 12, I noticed the Sector 7 plate did not fall as one whole piece. It seemed like the center of the plate crumbled first, then the destruction rippled from there. This is most visible in the scene featuring Cait Sith. My headcanon is that the Sector 7 slums was in a fortunate location, possibly between two larger chunks of the plate that broke apart, so it only received shattered debris. Still a bit too wild for me though
  • While thinking about this, I realized that Sector 7 slums is simultaneously near the perimeter of the sector, but also near the center. To elaborate, we know that Sector 7 slums is literally just beyond the gate between sectors 6 and 7 as it can be accessed via a short walk through the sewage tunnel. However, Sector 7 slums is also a short walk from the pillar. In-game everything is relatively close, but in cutscenes the sector is portrayed as huge. Just look at the distance the party travels while escaping on the zip line. Oh well! I think this could be turned into a fun discussion. Equivalent to debates on why Rufus went all the way to Rocket Town, in person no less, to steal the Tiny Bronco
  • Really surprised that Wedge was found alive. My headcanon is that the ground opened up below him just before he was hit by the falling debris. That's two headcanons in one chapter now, which is two too many. This does not bode well
  • When Wymer mentioned rumors of a secret facility beneath the slums in Chapter 3, I thought it was a reference to Deepground, but I think it's more likely a reference to the facility in this chapter. When I think of Deepground, I think of a military state. However, this underground facility has long been abandoned. Maybe it was constructed at the same time as Mako Reactor 0 beneath Midgar, but now it appears to be separated and has become its own thing
  • I thought the absence of Cloud was an interesting gimmick for this chapter. I realized how much I rely on his consistent move set. It was fun to make Barret and Tifa fill his role. Subtle game design here. I like it!
  • Very lame that the Guardians just whisk away the party and Wedge after they're discovered. This has been my least favorite chapter so far. Reeks of filler. Not sure how I feel about Wedge living either. Guess it doesn't really matter, which itself is a problem?
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

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AKA
Tets
The thing about sector 7 is that it's very inconsistent with how it's portrayed. In this chapter, the plate is just gone. You can't see a single piece of debris from it anywhere, even when you stand directly in the space that should be occupied by it. The view to the central pillar is completely unobstructed even though the rubble from the plate should be piling all the way up in that direction.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
IIRC the developers said interviews (or was the Inside the Remake videos) that when redesigning Midgar for the Remake they researched and designed it closer to how actual architecture and physics would work. I am guessing that’s part of the reason why the Sector 7 plate collapsed from the middle instead of falling like a pancake, it’s probably similar to how support beams work in real life.

@Tetsujin the party still walks and climbs over a lot pieces of the destroyed plate though IIRC.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

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AKA
Tets
Not in this chapter they don't. In this chapter, the plate is literally gone. Not just destroyed on the ground, it's not anywhere. It's completely inconsistent with the way it looks when you're actually climbing up to the Shinra HQ in later chapters where it piles all the way up to Shinra HQ. It's bizarre.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
cold_spirit said:
Yeah there's debris, but considering how thick the plate is, there should be mountains of scrap metal. However, as seen in your screenshots, the party is still able to walk on the bare ground. That's ridiculous to me.
Click to expand...

^This. And as you can see in those shots, the central pillar is clearly visible but as later chapters show, the rear part didn't fall down straight and now forms a sort of ramp up to the top.
It's like the plate just vanishes when you're in the slums. From the top, it looks like one would expect.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Perhaps it’s just the angle the slums are at that allows the central pillar to still be visible, or at least the lights of it. Especially if the main parts of the slums are located at the outer edge of the Midgar circumference, the upper parts of the central pillar could be visible through the debris.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
cold_spirit said:
  • When Wymer mentioned rumors of a secret facility beneath the slums in Chapter 3, I thought it was a reference to Deepground, but I think it's more likely a reference to the facility in this chapter. When I think of Deepground, I think of a military state. However, this underground facility has long been abandoned. Maybe it was constructed at the same time as Mako Reactor 0 beneath Midgar, but now it appears to be separated and has become its own thing
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it's still supposed to be Deepground. The filenames for the creatures encountered there call them such, and that one part of the facility with the pods, to me, still looked very much in recent use.

The area not being occupied at that particular moment probably had to do with the uprising going on in Deepground at that time. Remember, Weiss and the Tsviets were taking control of the facility from the Restrictors during the time of the original game's events.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Theozilla said:
Perhaps it’s just the angle the slums are at that allows the central pillar to still be visible, or at least the lights of it. Especially if the main parts of the slums are located at the outer edge of the Midgar circumference, the upper parts of the central pillar could be visible through the debris.
Click to expand...

That doesn't work. Have you seen the way it looks in chapter 15? In chapter 13 and 14, you can't see any part of the plate even though it piles up all the way to the top of the pillar one end and to the pizza crust on the other. You should see that mountain of rubble but it's literally not there.
And when you're back in sector 7 you should absolutely be surrounded by all that. You should not get a clear view of anything.

mawNaxM.png


mXg20se.png

It's just wildly inconsistent.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Tetsujin said:
That doesn't work. Have you seen the way it looks in chapter 15? In chapter 13 and 14, you can't see any part of the plate even though it piles up all the way to the top of the pillar one end and to the pizza crust on the other. You should see that mountain of rubble but it's literally not there.
And when you're back in sector 7 you should absolutely be surrounded by all that. You should not get a clear view of anything.

mawNaxM.png


mXg20se.png

It's just wildly inconsistent.
Click to expand...
Yeah I have seen those chapters, but that rubble isn’t extending all the way to the pizza crust, that horizon stops at the inner ring, the Reactors mark it. So if the ruined slums are on the other side of the inner ring debris, they could probably see the inner pillar upper parts from that distance, with the debris below it obscured by the dark.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

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AKA
Tets
But the pizza crust is the inner ring...? I don't understand.

The plate isn't visible in the slum skyboxes where it should be. This is just how it is and I'm pointing it out. It's got nothing to do with angles. It's simply not there. That pile of rubble isn't there when you're in sector 7, it's not there when you're in sector 6 and 5. The plate just isn't there when you're on the ground. Literally not there.
 
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