SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 13 Spoiler Discussion

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Isn’t the Pizza Crust of the plate this part?
AF981141-4703-4FEB-BBC6-F4CB8E6E5794.jpegSo if the Slum ruins that are explorable in Chapter 13 are around that area (and or the open margins between sectors) wouldn’t there be less plate rubble there? (also I am not sure exactly what you’re referring to by skyboxes)
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
.... So Cloud, Tifa and Barret just fell into Deepground?

This area is either adjacent to Deepground or a literal portion of it. It's even filled with Crimson Hounds and Bizarre Bugs. The two predominant monster type enemies in that game which Shinra filled that whole area with.

There's even the sound of roaring from behind doors and shit.

Wow. And you're playing as Barret, who's using his gun-arm to shoot at them.... Incidentally, Dirge of Cerberus was originally going to be a shooting game starring Barret too....

Wow.

What a fucking nostalgia bomb.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
So the two most referenced compilation entries are the turks book and dirge, who would have thought! Playing as Barret was vindicating since I always wished he had been playable in DoC. I don't even want to say anything about Wedge. I feel like Square is gonna pull a fast one on me.
 
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Jimmy XH

Pro Adventurer
Definitely heard it earlier in the game but I’m glad I’ve finally placed the underground battle music with the one that was used extensively in the early trailers. I thought I was going mad trying to place it to an OG, but it must be a new one?

So you can go back to Sector 7...interesting. I thought it was quite cool but I’m just trying to make a bit of sense of it. I went into this game with as open a mind as I could, and my test would be whether each event was feasible within the bounds of OG story. I’m sure there’s a lot more context to come as I head into chapter 14, but Wedge survived and the slums are still navigable and partly in tact? This one is the biggest question mark so far, but did I enjoy it? I sure did.

Elmyra is fierce isn’t she! I thought her flashback was nicely done. I’m sure this will come through later but I want more on Ifalna, that’s for sure.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I really enjoy these segments where you get a party sans Cloud. I had already had Fire-All on Barret, and let me tell you that TEARS through those bugs, lol. And Cloud showing up was badass too. And his memory flashes of being in a test tube. Unsettling, I can imagine.

The Barret/Tifa boss fight was enjoyable, I loved him flipping her back up in the air when she gets knocked back :)

And yeah, the fact that you see the plate fragment and fall in pieces rather than dropped like a solid slice is why I figured you could still navigate into the wreckage.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Not much to say about it really.

The Elmyra flashback was excellent, though. Very, very similar to the OG depiction, and it was nice to be introduced to the Sector 5 train station earlier, since why would she be going to the Sector 7 one? I was impressed she got a younger model for the flashbacks, even if Tseng didn't, lol. He's just a Highlander, all right? Ifalna's so pretty!
 

ExampleZ

Pro Adventurer
I really don't understand the logic behind thinking Shinra would just send Aerith back home once they're done with her. The same Shinra that destroyed all of Sector 7 just to get rid of AVALANCHE would suddenly start acting generous all of a sudden? And Elmyra had just finished saying that Ifalna died trying to escape from Shinra, what possible reason would they have to think Shinra would just let Aerith go like that? What really surprises me is that even Tifa was saying "maybe they'll let her go when it's all over" despite everything that just happened. This just seems like a really contrived excuse to have more side quests.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I really don't understand the logic behind thinking Shinra would just send Aerith back home once they're done with her. The same Shinra that destroyed all of Sector 7 just to get rid of AVALANCHE would suddenly start acting generous all of a sudden? And Elmyra had just finished saying that Ifalna died trying to escape from Shinra, what possible reason would they have to think Shinra would just let Aerith go like that? What really surprises me is that even Tifa was saying "maybe they'll let her go when it's all over" despite everything that just happened. This just seems like a really contrived excuse to have more side quests.
Probably because Shinra hadn't acted on taking Aerith before in the past, and Aerith having a relatively benign relationship with the Turks. And since Aerith needs to be alive for Shinra (as they stated before Ifalna dying was a huge mess up on their part) it was a desperate hope on Elmyra's part combined with anxiety that trying to get her back would put Aerith at even greater risk.
 

ExampleZ

Pro Adventurer
Probably because Shinra hadn't acted on taking Aerith before in the past, and Aerith having a relatively benign relationship with the Turks. And since Aerith needs to be alive for Shinra (as they stated before Ifalna dying was a huge mess up on their part) it was a desperate hope on Elmyra's part combined with anxiety that trying to get her back would put Aerith at even greater risk.

They were acting on it almost immediately after we first met her. And I can understand Elmyra being so anxious about Aerith's well being, but Tifa and the others should know better by now.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
They were acting on it almost immediately after we first met her. And I can understand Elmyra being so anxious about Aerith's well being, but Tifa and the others should know better by now.
Immediate in regards to the game, but several years in regards to Elmyra and and Aerith. As for Tifa and the others, they've known Aerith for less than a day at that point, and Aerith's situation is very different than Avalanche's so I think it's understandable for their to be some hesitancy on their end. Especially since their most recent confrontation with Shinra ended with the Sector 7 plate collapsing.
 

Cannon_Fodder

Pro Adventurer
I honestly liked this chapter. I'll echo those that said the level of destruction in the slums wasn't believable, but it didn't bother me that much all things considered. Controlling Barret was great, and shooting all of those Shinra boxes on the walls was very cathartic.

The boss fight was cool too, even if I made it pretty hard on myself by setting Cloud as my only healer right before the chapter started...
 

Fangu

Great Old One
Yaaassss this chapter was much better than chapter 12 imo. Not much story, but the maps were good and there was a lot of variety to gameplay. We got that bitchin' Oppressed People remix again, yay :monster: I loved being 'forced' to get to know Barret's fighting style better. Shooting stuff with a machine gun is fun! Had some problems first time with the last boss, but after equipping Elemental and Ice on Barret and using a bit of Barrier matiera (and Ice 3) I was able to punch that SOB to a Stagger and then he was done for. Reeealllyy nice playing experience!

I was dead sure shooting all those boxes would be a trophy :wacky:

Other than that, not too much a fan of young Aerith's voice work, but the cutscene was good. I really enjoy running around in Aerith's garden, it's so pretty, and the house too.

Luckily I had enough gil to buy Big Bertha. That 2 ATB cost ability is so much fun, and it works well with that ATB materia that lets you fill 2 ATB's pressing L1/L2. I'm gonna have to switch back to his previous weapon now though to learn Lifesaver.

Generally happy about the variety in materia we're getting in this game. There's a lot of fun stuff that I'm sure sets up for pretty advanced gameplay. I lol'd when I found the materia early in the next chapter, called it what it was just by looking at the name :lol:

Oh yeah Wedge is alive. Meh. I was really sad to see him squashed with his cat but it matched the tone of the plate dropping. I guess I don't care either way, it's not that big of a story change (that I know), and he was the most interesting of the 3 imo.

Barret and Marlene <3
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
To me this chapter was perhaps worse then the ending, I'm very sorry.

Elmyra: "Shinra will treat Aerith as a guest and have her return when they are done, no big deal."
Tifa: "Yeah, that makes sense, let's leave it alone Cloud."
Barret: "Let's go back to Sector 7 and check on the bar."

I stopped being able to relate to my dear Cloud when he didn't kill everyone in the room for the insanity they were spouting. Cloud does not need this extra secret facility sidemission to believe the worst of Shinra, nor do Tifa and Barret. And sure, there will be some parts of Sector Seven not underneath hundreds of feet of rubble, but the chances that both the bar AND the exit of whatever passage Aerith talked about are gonna be amongst them are utterly miniscule. After very pointedly not being willing to give Barret possibly false hope with regards to Marlene this is very jarring. And it doesn't match the utter apocalyptic devastation we see them zipline through from the pillar, and what we can see on their way up to the plate. Hell, when you're in the Shinra tower, heart of Sector Seven is still burning, Seventh Heaven is next door from the central pillar, they can't be that far from the fires.

In itself the secret facility was inoffensive to me, it's not Deepground without a truly embarrasing amount of helicopters.
 
The Underground Test Facility gets my thumbs up!

- Easier to grind for EXP and AP than in many previous chapters. It is true that I tend to make RPGs too easy by grinding and overlevelling, so admittedly the game design so far is doing a good job of saving me from myself. Seems to me that leveling up your characters breaks the game less than having high-level materia at the ready. It's just that with me being 50 hours into this game I am dying for some grinding and stat growth.

- Having a record-amount of Shinra boxes to destroy was a good pastime between enemy re-spawns. Maxed out Moogle Medals here and confirmed that the max is 99, as expected. Super thankful for the many Hi-Potions I collected here. Potions have limited use now both in- and outside of battles, so the Shinra boxes regularly dropping Hi-Potions was very much appreciated.

- I reckon you could acquire Enemy Skill in earlier chapters, but Ch13 was when I finally acquired the Enemy Skill materia. Learned my first skill from the Varghidpolis. I find it weird that the ability used on the player was called Death "Something" (I don't remember the full name) but the learned skill is called "Self-Destruct". Not only that, but in the list of abilities for the Varghidpolis their Death-Something attack isn't listed. I've noticed a number of times that some named skills used by enemies in battle are not listed in the Enemy Intel data. I hope this is an oversight rather than an indication that I'll have to re-Assess enemies with some Super Assess materia later on. :wacky:

- Had Enemy Skill equipped on Barret when I started his section in the Underground Test Facility. Quickly unequipped it when I realized that if I used Self-Destruct, with only Barret in my party, I would have gotten a Game Over.

- Accidentally entered the Midgar wireframe and saw that it had changed according with the drop of the plate. I reckon that at least a few people who come into FFVIIR blind, not having played FFVII, will appreciate the spatial references that this wireframe adds.
Wireframe angle 1
Wireframe angle 2

- Playing as Barret was just so much fun and allowed me to take in the glory that is his character model way easier. I'm happy the game kept to you controlling Barret even after Cloud returned, since that section was so much a Barret moment.

- The Bizarre Bugs are now called Bugaboo! They are way tinier than previous designs though. Maybe we'll encounter larger versions and they will retain the name "Bizarre Bug"?

- The atmosphere of the Underground Test Facility was brilliant. It was cool that the Bugaboo nest in the darkness had lifestream particles emanating from it before you crushed the nest. The overall feeling of the place with all the cages and the roaring monster in the distance reminds me more of the underground prison in Banora (Crisis Core's final dungeon) than it does any underground network in Dirge of Cerberus.

- My immediate thought was that the Shinra propaganda posters had no business being in this room. But after seeing the coffee machine I realized it wasn't that farfetched. I imagine that work in this underground facility is something nobody really wants to do. It may involve extended periods of dull isolation coupled with extremely life endangering tasks whenever the human experiments are involved. After complaints reached the higher-ups about the poor working conditions of these underground labs, they did the most they could be bothered to do: Send down propaganda posters and a coffee machine. :lol:

- I felt so bad opening the treasure chest right next to the sleeping Marlene. Terrified that I might accidentally wake up the poor thing. Thankfully she didn't wake up and I got my reward: The Mythical Amulet, which further confirms summons as guardian deities in the FFVII world.

- You can tell that Square made sure that "Unknown Entity", "Failed Experiment" and the Underground Test Facility remained ambiguous as to how it may relate to Deepground, if at all. It's true that the FFVIIR demo files refer to these as Deepground enemies (and the final game's files may still retain these namesakes), so conceptually they are inspired by Deepground but they technically don't confirm anything in lore. Does "Deepground" as we know it from the Compilation, with the Tsviets, DG SOLDIER Logo, etc actually exist in FFVIIR canon? Having played up until the beginning of Ch14, I feel that ambiguity is still being kept here.

As it stands, on face value, these failed experiments are no different from any other failed experiment performed by Shinra: They just happen to be underground. :awesomonster:

- I cheese'd that boss battle so hard. Just kept spamming Blizzara and Blizzaga and won quite easily. The swarm of "Unknown Entity" was still frightening though.
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
"Through suffering you will grow stronger. Isn't that what you want?"
Damn.

"How much you have to drink son? We ain't missing no plate."
I love how they conveyed through ample NPC dialog how unbelievable and unprecedented this action was to an entire generation. They spent their whole lives under that thing.

Was nice to hear some awesome tracks again: Under City Suns, that Indian inspired music in the passageway, and that dubby ska-y breaky Oppressed People mix that is like sex to bass heads.

We all went through that Deepground segment like "shit, all this for a guy who's dead." Then they pull a fast one. Perhaps they will pull another fast one and have him die from something else. I really did love the Avalanche crew. Their deaths were obviously sadder this time.

I love playing as Barret and also as Tifa, so I was in my element with this chapter. It was cool to see Deepground being referenced without it being too in your face. This isn't the game for that. I liked having Chakra on Barret.
 
Lovely comments here guys, really enjoyed reading them.
Where is the Enemy Skill materia??? I didn't find it.

Roger, I take your point. Unlike Tifa and Barret, Cloud kind of knows that there is no form of torture Shinra won't stoop to (though it's a moot point whether he remember that at this point). However, the difference between Tifa, Barret and Cloud on the one hand and Aerith on the other is that T, B and C are disposable as far as Shinra is concerned, whereas Aerith - as Elmyra makes clear - is not. She is vital to their plans for Shinra's future. This gives her a position of strength to bargain from.

On reflection, sending Tifa and Barret off to the underground lab and having them realise that some of the monsters in these labs were once people was good plotting. They didn't think Shinra could be any worse, and then realised it was way worse even than they thought. Clearly Aerith can't be left in Shinra's hands a moment longer...

But first, some sidequests.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Lovely comments here guys, really enjoyed reading them.
Where is the Enemy Skill materia??? I didn't find it.

Roger, I take your point. Unlike Tifa and Barret, Cloud kind of knows that there is no form of torture Shinra won't stoop to (though it's a moot point whether he remember that at this point). However, the difference between Tifa, Barret and Cloud on the one hand and Aerith on the other is that T, B and C are disposable as far as Shinra is concerned, whereas Aerith - as Elmyra makes clear - is not. She is vital to their plans for Shinra's future. This gives her a position of strength to bargain from.

On reflection, sending Tifa and Barret off to the underground lab and having them realise that some of the monsters in these labs were once people was good plotting. They didn't think Shinra could be any worse, and then realised it was way worse even than they thought. Clearly Aerith can't be left in Shinra's hands a moment longer...

But first, some sidequests.

Barret and Tifa not being up on the levels of torture and human experimenting Shinra is involved in is one thing. But thinking they'll let Aerith go home when they have no more use for her is a pipedream Elmyra is clinging too and they should be ashamed for enabling her just so they can deal with their own stuff after Aerith gave up her freedom in exchange for Marlene safely making it out of Sector Seven.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Barret and Tifa not being up on the levels of torture and human experimenting Shinra is involved in is one thing. But thinking they'll let Aerith go home when they have no more use for her is a pipedream Elmyra is clinging too and they should be ashamed for enabling her just so they can deal with their own stuff after Aerith gave up her freedom in exchange for Marlene safely making it out of Sector Seven.
I think you’re being kinda harsh, especially when Tifa and Barret have little context for Aerith’s relationship to Shinra. All they know is that she is valuable to Shinra. Deferring to Elmyra’s wishes, pipedream they might be in hindsight, isn’t unreasonable and pretty understandable IMO.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
To me this chapter was perhaps worse then the ending, I'm very sorry.
The ending is bad? :huh:

Oh well, seeing as you hate the chapter I liked, I might like it :P
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
I think you’re being kinda harsh, especially when Tifa and Barret have little context for Aerith’s relationship to Shinra. All they know is that she is valuable to Shinra. Deferring to Elmyra’s wishes, pipedream they might be in hindsight, isn’t unreasonable and pretty understandable IMO.

We'll have to see I suppose, in the original game Shinra burned down Corel just for having born witness to a honest reactor malfunction. You'd think the absolute least Shinra would do is housearrest for someone that knows what Aerith knows. Maybe the new Barret was left with feeling Shinra had much more understandable reasons for doing what they did to Corel.

@Fangu sorry for referencing later in game spoilers :properhug:
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
We'll have to see I suppose, in the original game Shinra burned down Corel just for having born witness to a honest reactor malfunction. You'd think the absolute least Shinra would do is housearrest for someone that knows what Aerith knows. Maybe the new Barret was left with feeling Shinra had much more understandable reasons for doing what they did to Corel.
Barret’s situation isn’t comparable to Aerith’s though. Corel was all about showing how little Shinra valued Corel and its people, it’s a completely different scenario for Aerith who is a valued asset to Shinra.
Also the Remake indicates that Aerith and Elmyra have a far more cordial relationship with the Turks than they did in the OG, so Elmyra having a desperate hope is far more justified in this version.
 
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