SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 17 Spoiler Discussion

[Lex]

Discuss chapter 17 openly here! No spoilers for anything beyond chapter 17 please <3

 

[Theozilla]

Found the opening scene of Chapter 17 explains the Whispers somewhat and show’s us Aerith’s childhood Shinra room. Apparently the Whispers are also the “will of the planet” and Aerith somehow communicated knowledge to Red XIII. Also seems like the Whispers are trying to communicate with Aerith

 

[Grimmash]

Interesting that she speaks about being trapped in a maze.

 

[Tetsujin]

Okay I gotta say, that Jenova battle theme had me a bit disappointed because I really wanted something more electronic, techno-ish like the OG...and then the third phase started and I got exactly that. Good stuff.

Also, Rufus kicked my ass a few times. Had no trouble with any of the final boss stuff but this guy was something else

Also, a negative: The "trail of blood" section got downgraded hard imo.

 

[oty]

T-Rating I suppose. '97 just didnt give no shits

 

[Theozilla]

Yeah, red blood always ramps up the rating, but change it to a different color or make it robot oil and it’s kid friendly. Samurai Jack is a prime example of that.

 

[Tetsujin]

I mean, it's got a higher rating across the board outside the US already. With all those Cero C and 16 ratings they could've gotten away with even more.

 

[Theozilla]

It’s still only a T rating in the USA, that still limits stuff in regards to gore. Like Shinra Sr.’s stabbing had grey Sephiroth magic dust instead of actual blood splatters.

 

[Pizzachu]

Somebody should have told President Shinra that engravings give him no tactical advantage whatsoever.

Rufus' attack dog is now named Darkstar instead of Dark Nation. It still sounds edgy either way.

 

[Tetsujin]

It’s still only a T rating in the USA, that still limits stuff in regards to gore. Like Shinra Sr.’s stabbing had grey Sephiroth magic dust instead of actual blood splatters.

That's assuming they care about the US rating the most though which I doubt considering Japan is still by far their biggest market and over there it has the same rating as Type-0. If they wanted to, they could've gotten away with more within that rating.
Even taking the US rating into account, Crisis Core also showed more blood than Remake and was still T.

 

[oty]

Well, the US is a huge market, even if not the biggest. And CC had more blood, but was it "trails of blood" level tho? Dont quite recall

 

[Theozilla]

SE definitely cares about the USA market, even if it’s not their number one priority it’s still really important. And I don’t think the Remake differed that much from Crisis Core’s blood/gore level (like I don’t think Crisis Core’s in-game engine had any depiction of blood, I am pretty sure it only appeared in the pre-rendered cut-scenes, the Remake actually does show bloody splotches/scrapes with the in-game engine).

 

[Tetsujin]

But seriously though, I've been listening to this shit on repeat. When phase 3 kicks in at 4:48, just omg

Phase 1 and 2 was me like "yeah this is alright I guess but eh, doesn't capture the spirit of the original at all. meh"

Me when phase 3 drops:

 

[Alex Strife]

ALL OF MY YES.

That one's amazing. Amazing, I tell you.

 

[Teioh]

I low-key kinda miss the whole 'Rude captures you in the elevator and you get thrown in jail' part. I kept expecting it to happen at some point and then the trail of purple turned up. Still the whole President Shinra scene, Jenova battle and then the following battle with Rufus made up for it. And the dog lives! Always felt bad for killing it in OG... well maybe not too bad 'cus I almost always did kill it off for the extra item.

The Drum scared me a little, not gonna lie. I had Resident Evil vibes from the moment you walk past those cages with the dogs banging against the bars and then the first time you encounter a Zenene, fun times

 

[cold_spirit]

I'm keeping a log of my thoughts after each chapter. Here's Chapter 17!

• Finally, an explanation on the Guardi- err Whispers. Oops, all my previous log entries call them Guardians. Oh well!
• I did not expect the Whispers to be connected to the planet. That explains why Aerith, as one who communes with the planet, is so knowledgeable of them. Red XIII states that every planet is created with a destiny. An interesting lore addition. I've thought about something similar with our universe. The movement of every atom is the result of some reaction that came before it. Hmm, think of a container full of marbles. When you shake the container, the movement of the marbles isn't random. They moved in a specific way because of how energy was transferred to them. That set them on a course, where they collided with other marbles each on their own traceable courses, which creates a traceable reaction. Now imagine the container is the universe and the marbles are its atoms. Maybe the fate of our universe has been predetermined since its birth, since that initial shake? Woah, I'm probably thinking way too hard about this!
• I like that Red XIII was incorporated into this chapter's puzzles. Gotta make the most of his character wherever possible
• Brain Pods! The wack-a-mole security bots! Swordipede! No matter how crazy the enemy design, the remake has done a great job at incorporating them into the world. It's something I didn't expect the remake to be so faithful with. Definitely a highlight for me
• Brilliant that Barret saves the President Shinra, demands Avalanche's name be cleared, but the president calls Barret out for not demanding anything for the planet. I can begin to see that Barret's true intention with Avalanche is to use it as an outlet for his revenge on Shinra. It's like he was concerned about Avalanche's reputation because he wanted the fight to continue
• Watching the Whispers heal Barret, I wasn't even surprised. I've been preparing myself for this fate stuff my whole playthrough
• The last phase of the Jenova boss battle music... Yeah, I leaned forward when that kicked in
• Rufus Shinra's boss fight, like, holy shit. Shiiit. God damn is Rufus punched up for the remake. I love it. Darkstar, his shotguns, he's got a thing with coins now. So cool. And the battle was expertly designed. Probably the best boss fight in the remake for me so far. I needed to make mental notes on Rufus' behavior (e.g. Braver breaks his connection to Darkstar, Rufus will counterattack if you rush him), I adapted to the evolving mechanics, I managed my resources to stay alive. I just can't believe how good the game designers are at Square
• I did not enjoy the battle against Arsenal nearly as much. Taking out the Barrier Drones was a pain, then it had a ton of health that needed to be chewed through
• The roll call of the party's job titles was kept! Such a perfectly placed and executed joke

 

[Theozilla]

Though what’s interesting is that either Aerith was lying about not knowing what the Whispers were in the early chapters (since she literally asks what they are in Chapter 1), or that her knowledge was gained later throughout the game due to the planet communing with her, or perhaps her knowledge was like subconscious and her “connection”/mind meld? with Red XIII allowed for him to gain access/insight to her subconscious knowledge?

 

[Eerie]

Well she does say that she loses something every time they touch her. She’s probably getting connected to the planet more, losing a bit of her own character as she becomes aware of what they are telling her.

 

[Wol]

does Red says every planet is created with a destiny? I though he was specifically talking about the will of Planet.

 

[Makoeyes987]

There's. So much I want to say about this chapter.

But all I can say is.

Those fucking renditions of J-E-N-O-V-A are the hottest, most lit tracks I've heard since the OG. Like, the 3rd phase gave me goosebumps. It was the first time I heard it.

Oh my God. They nailed that track, and that fight.

And fucking hell, I can't believe... We were beating the shit out of a poor Sephiroth Copy. It was #40-something. I think that might've been Marco from Sector 7.... Jenova/Sephiroth turned that fucking Copy into a fucking Jenova monster to be fought. What a horrifying revelation.. To think you were fighting the real thing only to discover it was some poor bastard that was a meat puppet.

Does that mean a Sephiroth Copy floated off with the real Jenova to parts unknown?

Just. This chapter is wild.

Aerith's familiarity and knowledge of events and people (Marlene, Red XIII, Cloud to an extent) really makes it appear she knows far more than anyone. There's a situational awareness that seems beyond her being a Cetra here. It's driving me wild. Her knowledge/explanation of the Whispers, knowing about the elevator in the Drum, knowing they couldn't go back at all once proceeding... Etc. It's highly suspicious.

 

[Odysseus]

Wedge

Everybody said everything else I would, so eh. Not a fan of all this fate stuff, but I knew it was coming.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

I'm gonna pop in here and say that this chapter along with Chapter 16 are probably my favorites in the whole damn game. They really made a fantastic dungeon out of the Drum. Hojo is disgustingly creepy as ever. I also loved the moments where the party was split up on several occasions. Personally I kicked better ass running around with Tifa and Aerith than I did with Cloud and the others. Those two are a powerhouse duo for sure.

And this atmospheric music track creeped me the hell out. Can't wait for the score to be released.

 

[Razuun]

Where exactly is the Drum supposed to be?
If the President's Floor is directly above it, it can't actually be the cylinder-like object at the front of the HQ, can it?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Where exactly is the Drum supposed to be?
If the President's Floor is directly above it, it can't actually be the cylinder-like object at the front of the HQ, can it?

Why can't it? That's why I figured it was called the drum.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Why can't it? That's why I figured it was called the drum.

Yeah, and so long as the elevator is towards the back of the cylinder, it could feasibly go up to the President's floor.