SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 8 Spoiler Discussion

[Lex]

Discuss chapter 8 openly here! No spoilers for anything beyond chapter 8 please <3

 

[Noble0ne]

Aerith

 

[Theozilla]

One thing that made me giggle, is that they decided to go with Nomura’s old concept art name for Cloud’s mother, and officially name her Claudia Strife?.

 

[ExampleZ]

Not much to say here, had as much trouble escaping from Aerith's house as the very first time I played OG FF7.

 

[Tetsujin]

Finished chapter 8

- What the hell are those spectres...this better not be some weird timey wimey plot twist shit
- Aerith said "shit" I love it.
- got Shiva. Interesting that this is synthesized summon materia. Guess that'll explain Leviathan!
- more bad textures D:
- Under the Rotting Pizza! Pretty faithful rendition, sounds dope imo
- Love the look of the shantytown
- context given for some of the weirder enemies like the Smogger being a Shinra robot that reassembled itself from scrap. Can't wait for the Hell House explanation...let alone the inevitable dinosaur tank in another part
- ...Rude gave me a game over lol, had a hard time dodging his attacks
- his voice is cool. kind of funny hearing OG Rude voice random NPCs here in this chapter too
- I bumped into shit twice trying to sneak out and the third time the game just activated baby mode and removed a ton of stuff
- Cloud's mom has a name Cloud definitely got his looks from her
- so uh, this is sector 5 but looking straight up...

...this is clearly sector 6. The reactor closest to the church is no. 6. This is a kind of a major goof lol

Also, at night there is a transparent sun lamp hanging in the sky, can you see it?

Strange things are afoot at the sector 5.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention, but I like that the sector 5 theme is an instrumental arrangement of Hollow. I prefer when theme songs are integrated into the actual score, the way it was done in VIII, IX and X/X-2.

 

[cold_spirit]

I'm keeping a log of my thoughts after each chapter. Here's Chapter 8!

• Glad to see the "scrapped knees" comment was retained. Probably my favorite bit of foreshadowing in the original
• I was surprised to see Reno leaning on the shoulder of a Shinra grunt. Cloud made a real fool out of him
• Interesting to note that the Guardians were invisible to Reno and the Shinra grunts, but it's even more interesting that the Guardians saved Aerith from falling and prevented Shinra from reaching her. They aren't innately malicious, which is why I don't think they're connected to Sephiroth, who is characterized by his sadistic demeanor
• Also glad to see the barrel pushing puzzle was reworked to use a chandelier, though it was surprisingly awkward to navigate Cloud as he swung on the rafters
• Scarlet made her appearance. I wonder if she'll be the next sub-villain now that Heidegger has been foiled
• The rendition of Hollow that plays in the Sector 5 slums is beautiful. The original's main theme plays in the Sector 7 slums and the remake's main theme plays in the Sector 5 slums. Their use in these locations is important because they are the closed thing FF7R has to "hub worlds"
• There's a calendar in The Leaf House which correctly lists the year as "[ν] - εγλ 0007". Talk about attention to detail
• Lots of running around as you do quests. I don't personally enjoy that style of play, but thankfully the entire remake isn't like this chapter, so at least it's a good pace breaker
• I'm getting the feeling that Aerith knows more than she's letting on. Clearly she knows about SOLDIER because of her history with Zack, but I'm talking about more than that. For example, this is the description for "Escort the Children" in the Story tab: "... Sephiroth is still alive-a statement that Aerith barely acknowledges." Since the Guardians also surround Aerith, I'm starting to wonder if she can see visions of the future as well. There's also her conversation with the flowers which I'm still trying to decipher. Something's up
• Rude is quite a talkative one, contrary to how he is in the original game
• Elmyra telling Cloud that he traded "life for power" when he became SOLDIER... There it is again. Really looking forward to how this plot point develops
• Just like with the original, my first attempt at sneaking out of Aerith's house ended almost as soon as it began. Good stuff

 

[Misterbadguy]

• Lots of running around as you do quests. I don't personally enjoy that style of play, but thankfully the entire remake isn't like this chapter, so at least it's a good pace breaker

Yeah, gotta admit I was a bit concerned regarding this when I first got to Sector 7, but like you say the town areas are there to give the player a breather and to amass some equipment/materia at their leisure. The quests at least do have some nice world building in them for the most part, despite the actual gameplay content of them being a bit whatever. Helps that there isn't a totally overwhelming number of them too.

 

[pollenainne]

It was funny how Cloud easily promised Elmyra he would never talk to Aerith again. And the next thing you know, he easily just accepts her help without even trying to refuse it at least once. smh... lol

 

[Alex Strife]

Elmyra telling Cloud that he traded "life for power" when he became SOLDIER... There it is again. Really looking forward to how this plot point develops

"A normal life", rather than life. It doesn't imply that he's giving his literal life but rather, "a normal existence". That's why she then follows up with "You can't have both", implying he shouldn't leisurely spend his time with Aerith as if he weren't an Ex-SOLDIER.

 

[Teioh]

Starting to struggle with these boss fights. Both Reno and Rude nearly had me. Actually had to restart the Rude fight to rearrange my materia setup. Despite the trouble I'm having with the fights this is my fave chapter so far. But I'm biased towards the Turks so

Also loving all the little bits of lore you get from the side quests.

 

[Claymore]

Ok, this was a fantastic chapter!

OMG I'm almost crying right now. Aerith is PERFECT. I love the sass that they've injected back into her, something that you just don't get to see in most other cameos that she has featured in.

"I'm not some princess in need to be coddled..." Proceeds to almost fall. "Shit."

"Monsters instinctively target weaker pray."
"Hhm, you'd better watch out then, Cloud."

And how Cloud butted in when she was about to reveal to Mum what the price was for being her bodyguard, and Cloud just couldn't stand the embarrassment ... it's just so perfect.

And I've not even gotten into how amazing Sector 5 and the connecting areas all were. The designing was incredible. And the acoustic / instrumental version of Hollow was a nice touch. And that version of Let The Battles Begin is just ... beautiful.

Loved the implementation of the VR Simulator to at least align things up with Crisis Core lol. Shiva was a beast. I went in blind at first and she wrecked me with Whiteout + Heavenly Strike. But the second go round I was prepared with Elemental + Ice in my equipment, Fire, and I also brought Ifrit to the fight. We quickly wrecked her. God her cries were actually pretty chilling. Awesome work all round there.

Oh, so the Sector 6 plate DID fall once upon a time. I always thought it was incomplete construction, lol. And God, even more worldbuilding with the kids wanting to grow up like Jessie, Biggs having taught the kids at the orphanage at some point, and Don Corneo's name drop.

I still have Rude to tackle, but got to call it a day unfortunately. LOVING THIS!

 

[Tetsujin]

I still have Rude to tackle

No, Rude has you to tackle

 

[Teioh]

OMG I'm almost crying right now. Aerith is PERFECT. I love the sass that they've injected back into her, something that you just don't get to see in most other cameos that she has featured in.

"I'm not some princess in need to be coddled..." Proceeds to almost fall. "Shit."

"Monsters instinctively target weaker pray."
"Hhm, you'd better watch out then, Cloud."

Yess! Loving all the extra dialogue I've heard from all of them so far. The little bit after that last convo where she gets attacked by monsters and claims that they must have been a different breed because they went for the strongest one, I love her

 

[rkss]

So the theme song is the default background song of sector 5's slums. How do we interpret it?

I always thought the song was about Zack because it made more sense since Midgar is just first part of the story but with that ending I don't know what to think anymore.

 

[pollenainne]

Hmm... maybe it's just ambiguous for a reason? I myself thought of Aerith right away, the first time I heard it... but really it could be for whatever you feel like it is? Although, Zack is my least choice. Because the song sounds romantic and I would ship Cloud with Tifa before I would ship him with Zack. Zack is mine. lol

Kidding aside, I think having an FF7R theme being about Zack subverts Cloud. I miss the time when people do not scream Zack when they hear of FF7. Like, I really love Zack but it hurts that he is taking over Cloud even at his own story. Zack has his own story. Can we please make Cloud shine in his own story at least. sigh~ One of the things I am happy about FF7R is that it will allow the new generation to see Cloud.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

So since this is the Ch. 8 thread, I'm gonna hide this next bit in the spoiler tag just in case.

Spoiler: About Hollow

I still take my stance there a multiple ways in which the theme applies (as they should), but the ending + Uematsu's comments heavily suggest that Zack, in whatever corresponding implementations of his character, is one of the applied meanings that the song takes. Probably one of my favorite takes is in retrospect to Zack's motivations/thoughts during his Last Stand—these being transmitted to Cloud, who carries it as he moves forward. The "Last Stand" also serving as a central character point for Cloud's disposition at the moment, which ultimately Zack is represented as a part of, reflects this as well if that is the intention as a foundation for Hollow's meaning. Moving forward, there are other ways in which Cloud would understand the meaning of this song as well. It actually makes me curious if this song will continue to be the main theme in all parts or not.

Kidding aside, I think having an FF7R theme being about Zack subverts Cloud. I miss the time when people do not scream Zack when they hear of FF7. Like, I really love Zack but it hurts that he is taking over Cloud even at his own story. Zack has his own story. Can we please make Cloud shine in his own story at least. sigh~ One of the things I am happy about FF7R is that it will allow the new generation to see Cloud.

Nah lol Zack certainly rose as a popular character after CC (given it was the moment he became a "true" character—outside of the dislike for Last Order or limited exposure in BC), but I wouldn't even say he generally overshadows Cloud in representing FF7. I don't believe that effect will happen here to that extreme, given that the important part of Zack's existence is to essentially elevate Cloud's character development and backstory. Sounds a bit harsh on a character construction level, but at least by the OG standards, that was the functionality by the role he filled in for in late development. It'll actually be a good thing for Zack's character to have more prominence in this story, just like others have here and there.

 

[pollenainne]

I just don't buy it. Below is the lyrics to the song.

I would be lost drifting along
Floating up high time after time
And there you'd be, shining brightly
Your smiling face, to guide my way

Bloody and bruised brought to my knees
When beaten down when broken up
You would appear reach out to me
Heal every wound and make me whole

Was it all a dream?
Will I never know?
Foolish and blind to everything
Had I realized, had I thought it through
Would you be here in my embrace?

Shine bright once more
Guide me to you
Smile bright once more
This time, I will never let you go

Isn't that too gay to be a song about Cloud and Zack? I mean, I have nothing against gays but Zack and Cloud are not, right? Just imagine Cloud singing that to Zack... miss me with that. lol

 

[Theozilla]

I really don’t get the hate for Last Order, regardless of its canonicity, it’s fine piece of animation and works as a neat OVA I think.

Also just because one is arguing that Hollow fits as representative for Zack doesn’t it has to be interpreted as romantic. Platonic love between comrades is important too.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

@pollenainne It depends on your applied meaning of "about Cloud and Zack", though.

This could be the "perspective of Zack" that Cloud essentially inherited from Zack during his final moments—to be more precise, this would Zack towards Aerith. For it to be taken as a general representation of Cloud's involvement in that scene, and as a part of Zack's efforts, I believe the intention is to have the song connect to that part of the story as a whole. The specifics of it is most likely meant to be open to discourse, but that's where one hunkers down to see where the application is. There's multiple layers to it all, I'm sure.

 

[rkss]

@pollenainne :

The point is this theme song is for first part or for the whole game?
If it's for first part, it doesn't make sense because Cloud barely knew Aerith.
If it's for the whole game, it still doesn't make sense since we can't revive Aerith

Which that being said, the ending has

Spoiler

opened up whole new time travel/ AU shenanigan

so I'm confused now.

 

[Theozilla]

Also I just remembered as lyrical version of Hollow plays after the Sector 7 collapse with Barret and Tifa in your party. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664935990376529940/696126752124305428/AT-cm_659674555.mp4

So it may just be a part 1 theme overall. And there is probably no one specific meaning behind the song. It can apply to Zack, Cloud, Aerith, the slums, Avalanche, etc.

 

[pollenainne]

I really don’t get the hate for Last Order, regardless of its canonicity, it’s fine piece of animation and works as a neat OVA I think.

Also just because one is arguing that Hollow fits as representative for Zack doesn’t it has to be interpreted as romantic. Platonic love between comrades is important too.

I enjoyed the Last Order actually. I actually enjoyed all FF7 material, I just don't like placing them all in perspective with the original game. It's too much headache. I would rather enjoy them separately.

As for platonic love, I'm good with that. The song isn't. lol

@pollenainne It depends on your applied meaning of "about Cloud and Zack", though.

This could be the "perspective of Zack" that Cloud essentially inherited from Zack during his final moments—to be more precise, this would Zack towards Aerith. For it to be taken as a general representation of Cloud's involvement in that scene, and as a part of Zack's efforts, I believe the intention is to have the song connect to that part of the story as a whole. The specifics of it is most likely meant to be open to discourse, but that's where one hunkers down to see where the application is. There's multiple layers to it all, I'm sure.

Actually, I can get with this... not convinced but it is worth a thought.

@pollenainne :

The point is this theme song is for first part or for the whole game?
If it's for first part, it doesn't make sense because Cloud barely knew Aerith.
If it's for the whole game, it still doesn't make sense since we can't revive Aerith

Which that being said, the ending has

Spoiler

opened up whole new time travel/ AU shenanigan

so I'm confused now.

The same thing with Zack though. If it is for the first part then it can't be for Zack because he doesn't remember him. If it's for the whole game however, Aerith does make sense, there is nothing in the song about revival, simply wishful thinking of a next time. And the "guide me to you" lyrics fits the narrative of the story. It misses more with Zack since, Cloud never once expressed seeing Zack once more.

But as I said at the start. It must be ambiguous for a reason.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

Also I just remembered as lyrical version of Hollow plays after the Sector 7 collapse with Barret and Tifa in your party. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664935990376529940/696126752124305428/AT-cm_659674555.mp4

So it may just be a part 1 theme overall. And there is probably no one specific meaning behind the song. It can apply to Zack, Cloud, Aerith, the slums, Avalanche, etc.

I don't think it's uncommon for video games (sometimes film) to use themes in a multitude of ways outside of specific application, if not just to be a representation of itself as the main theme, really. As background music, it probably doesn't have any intentional meaning outside of the latter. Either way, nice find!

 

[rkss]

Also I just remembered as lyrical version of Hollow plays after the Sector 7 collapse with Barret and Tifa in your party. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664935990376529940/696126752124305428/AT-cm_659674555.mp4

So it may just be a part 1 theme overall. And there is probably no one specific meaning behind the song. It can apply to Zack, Cloud, Aerith, the slums, Avalanche, etc.

That's what I said. Theme song is default background song in sector 5's slums, you hear it when you travel around, alone or with group. Make of that what you will

Tifa&Cloud have their own jukebox song as well.

 

[pollenainne]

I actually took note of that right away when I heard it. But I just can't put any meaning to it. It's too vague an allusion. But maybe it portrays Cloud's carefree days when he was just running around without a thought to danger... It's also the brightest lit area of the game (during the day of course). But lol, I think it's pointless anyway. Cloud can sing it to Barret for all I care. lol. It was fun thinking about it though.