final fantasy ambivalence

[Hisako]

My favorite usage of "kawaii" is still

“YOUR PENIS IS SO FUCKING KAWAII”

Ah, such verbiage.

Also, my impression of "weaboo" is that it's not an inherently offensive term but with the meaning it carries, the intent with which people use that word is often meant to be derogatory

 

[Akai Hana]

Uh, I'm a bit confuse about this whole thread. Are you guys talking about language here?

Well if you guys talking about japanese language here, a lot of words borrowed from english, chinese, french, german are in use in japan. Words like orenji (orange), kohi (coffee), bakansu (vacances-french), furita (free+arbeiter-german), kanji (hanzi-chinese) and a lot more. Even the word 'anime' is from 'animation' and it is not from japan.

p/s: I don't think borrowing words into english is an insult here since japanese themselves borrowing a lot of other language into making their own.

 

[ForceStealer]

why do I do things on the internet when I'm drunk.

Also there is a reason why there's a derogatory word for people who fetishize another culture...

I would argue that adopting words like "kawaii" or whatever isn't racist, though a lot would disagree with me?

I mean, languages borrowing words isn't exactly a new thing. I feel like people knee-jerking at the adoption of a non-white language is partially due in part to this weird feeling of entitled sacredness of the English language, which honestly only contributes to attitudes of white supremacy.

If I, an English speaking person, adopted a word from French or German I would be considered classy, or at worst, pretentious. If I were to say kawaii (which I do, all the time) I'm a weeaboo.

This is all just perception. I'm not actually speaking as a Japanese person looking at this from that particular lens of neo-colonialism.

I'm a little confused. If that's not the reason for there being "a derogatory word for people who fetishize [Japanese] culture," what is?
Also, since when is picking on people who stick "kawaii" and "desu" into their sentences have anything to do with using "non-white language?" White supremacy's involved? Sorry, I'm lost. Every culture has those people who are always going on about the sacredness of their pure language, China does it constantly, it's got nothing to do with whites. But even still, I don't think that's what give people issues with what is implied by the term "weeaboo."

All that said, more on topic, I agree that slapping labels like "weeaboo" and "animu" to sum up an entire game is unfair and rather mean for people who might genuinely enjoy them for their own reasons. The only time I'm inclined to use the term are situations like the above, and when fansubs keep words in Japanese because the viewer is just "supposed to know," that drives me nuts.

 

[looneymoon]

Clarification: There is a reason weeaboo is a derogatory statement. I think it goes beyond things like using "kawaii" as a slang term, which I honestly don't think is terribly indicative of intense weeabooity (which is obv is just a perception/observation thing as around me there is a significant chunk of people who throw around the term without being all that into Japanese stuff).

China's issues with language also has to do with colonialism, but not necessarily of the white supremacy variety. In fact, almost all discussion of codifying language has something to do with colonialism/racism/classism.

 

[Fangu]

China's issues with language also has to do with colonialism, but not necessarily of the white supremacy variety. In fact, almost all discussion of codifying language has something to do with colonialism/racism/classism.

Or, as in the case of the Scandinavian languages, an inferiority complex. The Norwegian Language Council is desperately trying to keep the language "clean", either by making up new words for borrowed ones (which often sounds rather ridiculous) or rewriting them in accordance to Norwegian grammar (French 'chaffeur' --> Norwegian 'sjåfør'), but it is not a case of classism or purity (like of the anglo-European kind); it's simply saying it's a way of maintaining diversity, to "protect the cultural heritage which Norwegian language, written and spoken, represents, to promote measures for heightened knowledge of the language and to further tolerance and mutual respect in the language community." As you want to keep a record of history to not forget, purifying a language is a way to maintain knowledge of culture.

What I disagree with them on is, they say "The goal of the work of the Language Council is that the Norwegian language should be used in all parts of society into the future, and that it should not be forced out by English." I think we have a helluva long way to go before Norwegian is 'forced out' in any way, seeing as our languages are so different. I find it funny how people who claim to be experts on language can say such a thing. As long as Norway is a separate country and a democracy, we're sticking to Norwegian.

I think they're views on things are basically outdated. Norwegian is already a clusterfuck of French, English, German and not to mention, Danish. If they wanted to 'save' Norwegian, they're already too late. They should all just learn Icelandic instead - which is the one language they all celebrate. I took half a semester of Nordic Languages (including a course of Old Norse and one on Norwegian Literature), and the teachers at the University are all a bunch of narrow minded purists. Language evolves, it's what it does, because people and society change.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I mean, languages borrowing words isn't exactly a new thing. I feel like people knee-jerking at the adoption of a non-white language is partially due in part to this weird feeling of entitled sacredness of the English language, which honestly only contributes to attitudes of white supremacy.

I can't work out what this means. English is a mongrel language, a dog's breakfast of a language; it's nothing but words borrowed from other languages, and even its grammar is a mishmash of French and Latin rules imposed upon Anglo-Saxon, a legacy of the time when the English were not the conquerers but the conquered.

And there isn't even one 'English'. 'Standard English' as a concept barely exists any more. English is probably the least pure language in the world. So I'm guessing thatentitled sacredness doesn't mean keeping the language 'pure' - we don't have an academy, like France and some other countries, whose purpose is to keep the contagion of foreignness out of our language, which would be a case of shutting the stable door when that particular horse already bolted about 500 years ago.

Does it mean English speakers feel entitled to borrow any word they want from anywhere?

@ Fangu - or in the case of the French, a superiority complex.

 

[Cthulhu]

I like how people talk about the purity of, say, English, when its roots lie in Germanic, Nordic, French, Latin, etc: sauce.

 

[Blade]

Here's my logic: If you're going to use a term like "animu" or "weeaboo" to describe something in a negative light. Then you shouldn't even bother.

It's like the old addage: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

 

[Cthulhu]

How about "Geek"? all o y'all are geeks. That's one word that, btw, has turned from an insult to a (sub)culture-defining identity many people identify themselves with and take pride in.

 

[Blade]

Last I checked, anyone who defines themselves as "Geek" is actually only just pretending to be one because of the recent trend in popularity and intelligence association.

So actually, it IS still an insult, and even more insulting when posers go around pretending they're like you.

 

[Cthulhu]

Or a case of elitism where the people that were called a geek when it was still uncool now want to take pride in it, but now it's become mainstream, or something.

 

[Lex]

I don't give a shit about this "geek" label thing, and I don't understand why it's suddenly a thing. Imagine actually standing up and saying "I, Joe Bloggs, identify as a geek". Fuck off and get a life Joe, no one cares.

 

[Cthulhu]

I for one never identified myself with any subculture, evar.

 

[Blade]

"There is no good or evil, thinking makes it so."

--Shakespeare.

My version:

"There is no misanthropy, cliques and labeling make it so."