Final Fantasy VII - Improvements

[Cat Rage Room]

Personally, I always thought Cait Sith was dumb as fuck and while not something I'm unable to suspend my disbelief for, he's something I could easily do without. But changing the story myself to accommodate that is just, eh...

HOWEVER, in essence this is no different from a mod for Fallout or Oblivion or something and since it's a player's choice, well, I guess there's no point in taking it so seriously.

 

[DLPB]

I don't know. It's your choice, but it's dumb to do so and try to assume that it's official. Just don't try to pass it off as the original game, improved or not.

of course not....it is in no way official and is separate from the retranslation (which keeps cait obviously).

I would never try to pass it off as the game, I think that is obvious....it is merely a choice for people.

retranslation : kept to the script, designed to be accurate and faithful to the japanese, keeps cait

Cait project: uses the retranslation dialogue but removes cait

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Reeve IS Cait Sith

I have a question about this. Reeve is Cait Sith but is that a constant thing? I always figured that Reeve lets Cait Sith do his own thing a lot of the time, you know, for practicality reasons, while Reeve himself can do things such as eat, sleep, shit, and you know, do his job. I assumed that Reeve's relationship to Cait was more or like Harbinger and the Collectors from ME2 (ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL)

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah it seems Cait Sith is perfectly capable of operating on its own but Reeve can directly control it and even speak directly through it (as in the eavesdropping on Scarlet and Heidegger).

 

[DLPB]

I have a question about this. Reeve is Cait Sith but is that a constant thing? I always figured that Reeve lets Cait Sith do his own thing a lot of the time, you know, for practicality reasons, while Reeve himself can do things such as eat, sleep, shit, and you know, do his job. I assumed that Reeve's relationship to Cait was more or like Harbinger and the Collectors from ME2 (ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL)

When reeve is talking to your party at same time as talking to scarlet....how would it be accomplished with remote control?

edit, as above.

 

[Max Payne]

He probably does have automated processes and a programed AI, but most of the time he is in control it seems. At least, any time he's talking about something important.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Either that, or at least he's listening in while Cait is 'automated', during important convos. Or recording it to come back to later.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The snowboard event is a gameplay element. I can just as easily pretend that they walked it.

Well, the Ultimania Omega does go over it in the story summary, so that's for real too.

As I said, maybe you can turn a blind eye to it, but some of us can't. I respect that you differ with me on this, but all I am doing is giving people the choice whether to swap him out for a story I created.

I agree it's not a big deal since it's just a game mod, but I have to wonder why you'd want to make Reeve not be part of the team.

Imho a much more plausible one where reeve sets a human operative into the party.

Out of curiosity, what are you going to do with him at the Temple of the Ancients?



As to the "automated" or "completely controlled" question, from the original game alone one gets the impression that he's completely controlled, I think.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

the original game alone one gets the impression that he's completely controlled, I think.

I never got that impression, at least not all of the time. It just doesn't seem practical. Don't you think they switch from time to time as well? Even then I got the impression that the dialogue alone indicated that sometimes Reeve was talking and sometimes it was all Cait.

 

[DLPB]

Well, the Ultimania Omega does go over it in the story summary, so that's for real too.

Ultimania is sadly not perfect

I agree it's not a big deal since it's just a game mod, but I have to wonder why you'd want to make Reeve not be part of the team.

There is no way to place him in it. At one point you are talking to the character at the exact same time as reeve is talking to Scarlet. It isn't feasible to make a stupid story element to make it work, plus I think reeve serves his purpose as part of Shin-Ra, even if he doesn't like it.

Out of curiosity, what are you going to do with him at the Temple of the Ancients?

This is the one thing that causes an issue with decent story telling. To be fair is was pathetic in the original that new cait would just pop up that fast...not only that, but he has to solve the puzzle. The constraint isnt in the story but in the fact we are forced to accept that he has to be in the temple at the time. No way will work with this to make it a plausible tale, so instead I will have to accept the explanation I give it as "one of those things"

personally, I think having some established person or party member die at this point would have been cool.

A human who says, does, and acts how Reeve wants him to?

No, I have made him work for shin-ra and reeve, but along the way he begins to understand that there is more going on and that he has been working for the wrong people. His character adapts so that he ends up helping cloud.

He has his own personality....the core of the text as you know it will be altered to fit in with that story. The whole cait sith storyline aside from a few things will be changed.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

There is no way to place him in it. At one point you are talking to the character at the exact same time as reeve is talking to Scarlet. It isn't feasible to make a stupid story element to make it work, plus I think reeve serves his purpose as part of Shin-Ra, even if he doesn't like it.

In the original, though, that scene served as a point of revelation because Reeve was trying to carry on two conversations at once and ended up getting his accents mixed up. What revelation are you going to have replace the reveal of Reeve's identity?

This is the one thing that causes an issue with decent story telling. To be fair is was pathetic in the original that new cait would just pop up that fast...not only that, but he has to solve the puzzle. The constraint isnt in the story but in the fact we are forced to accept that he has to be in the temple at the time. No way will work with this to make it a plausible tale, so instead I will have to accept the explanation I give it as "one of those things"

So you're going to have him get out of the temple somehow?

personally, I think having some established person or party member die at this point would have been cool.

Nah, the whole idea of Cait Sith's "death" is to make you think death isn't for keeps with your main party members. That way, when Aerith dies only an hour later, you're really not going to see it coming.

They definitely handled that the right way.

 

[DLPB]

In the original, though, that scene served as a point of revelation because Reeve was trying to carry on two conversations at once and ended up getting his accents mixed up. What revelation are you going to have replace the reveal of Reeve's identity?

Well I suppose that can be the time where you finally realise you can trust him and that he is helping you spy on Shin-Ra, betraying them.

So you're going to have him get out of the temple somehow?

Since the game forces me to, yup.

Nah, the whole idea of Cait Sith's "death" is to make you think death isn't for keeps with your main party members. That way, when Aerith dies only an hour later, you're really not going to see it coming.

They definitely handled that the right way.

I was under impression that he makes it obvious that he is just a robot that can be replaced in the original Japanese?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well I suppose that can be the time where you finally realise you can trust him and that he is helping you spy on Shin-Ra, betraying them.

That makes Reeve a douche, though, doesn't it?

I was under impression that he makes it obvious that he is just a robot that can be replaced in the original Japanese?

I'm referring more to the impression it has on the player. It "desensitizes" them to the idea of their party members dying, so to speak, right before it starts playing for keeps.

So first you're left thinking, "Ok, so a party member dies, it's no big deal. They're going to come back somehow." Then you're watching Cloud almost kill Aerith.

"He's not really going to kill her, though. Wait, why isn't anybody stopping him? He's not really going to do it, right? Right? Whew, okay, I knew it. She's fine. Omfg!"

That's why her death is a storytelling masterstroke.

 

[DLPB]

Personally I think it would have had much same impact on me regardless...but point taken..

On reeve, he is a Shin-Ra employee and I think he retains that no matter what, the only difference here is that he has sent someone to infiltrate your party...

And in the original, he was ok with abduction