Final Fantasy VII: The First Soldier

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Eh, the trailer definitely made me think that you play people who will at least get around that time when the first SOLDIER will make it out, so 12 years after the start of the project. I mean maybe it's a misleading trailer, but that's what I got from it, not that you play during those years where they kept failing at making them. The appearance of probable teen!Sephiroth also points out to that. There also may be time skips, as far as we know, but the still images point out more at background/cutscenes than scenes where you play a character.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Glad it seems like Sephiroth is going to be at least 30 years old chronologically in the present day of FFVIIR (i.e end of year 0007). Estimates saying he could be 25 always pushed my suspension of disbelief. I can at least reasonably hold my suspension of disbelief that Sephiroth was an early bloomer and got put to the field as a 12 year old, but not a 7 year old.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Interestingly, the CC Ultimania and CCCG say Sephiroth is "roughly 25" and "mid-20s" (respectively) at his first appearance in Crisis Core, which is at Fort Tamblin in late 2000. Let's assume "roughly 25" means 23-27. That would mean Sephiroth is somewhere between 29 and 34 as of the beginning of FFVII, which would put him at 11 to 16 in 1989 in First SOLDIER.
Glad it seems like Sephiroth is going to be at least 30 years old chronologically in the present day of FFVIIR (i.e end of year 0007). Estimates saying he could be 25 always pushed my suspension of disbelief.
What we know from the devs is Nomura stating Angeal being only 25 years old to comment his physical appearance that looks old. The Ultimania might hold that statement to put Sephiroth age as "roughly 25" because he is likely around Angeal and Genesis's age and Project G was held before Project S . So, you're right, Sephiroth in Dec 0007 is at least 30. But what makes his age never listed or just as ??? I think because he physically died in Nibelheim incident (Oct 0002) at 25-27 years old. His entity in OG/Remake timeframe is unknown, so is the age.

EDIT: Speaking of Sephiroth... is this young Angeal?
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Angeal obtained the Buster Sword as a gift from his stepfather in commemoration for getting selected by Shinra for SOLDIER. That guy doesn't carry the Buster Sword so it's unlikely it's Angeal.
 

jeangl123

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jean
Maybe Angeal just didn't put the sword on his back until he was a first. He said it was heavy to carry in one of the DMW scenes.

Zack: Don’t you think it’s about time you used that sword?

Angeal: This sword…is heavy and unwieldy.

Zack: Tch! Then why don’t you bring a lighter one?

It's also hard to tell if that soldier has Angeal's widows peak because of the way the hair is parted.
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
Whooboy that was a really cool trailer and I'm actually going to try to play this mobile game. I'm more excited for Ever Crisis, which I think will deliver the story in a more digestible format. Some thoughts:

1. Emphasis on three characters: White Haired Soldier, Black haired-caucasian Soldier (specualtion is young Angeal) and Dreads Soldier (person of color, rarer in the FF7 mythos). I'm not sure if any of them are going to be fleshed out and given a story, but part of me can't help but wonder if we're seeing a return to the "Three Saints" idea cut from early FF7 materials (in which one is named Gandalf/Gandof, recycled for FFX i think).

I expect a lot off these SOLDIERS were not born into the program, they were adults/kids injected. We know that has happened right? Zack, Cloud, most of SOLDIER - they're folks who came along, get tested, and get turned. It makes sense to me that Sephiroth was not the first SOLDIER to ever show up, and we know that there were others produced before (looking at you, Angeal! especially). Soooo, that leads me to believe that Sephitoh would show up among these ranks and out perform everyone. Maybe that's a sort of pastiche for the player character or the default dude getting famous before Angeal and Genesis join.

So what will happen with these characters? I think some of these SOLDIERs will die out during the war, including close friends of Sephiroth that makes him alienated by the time of CC (Genesis and Angeal being his close friends but probably the last humans he really cares about). I suspect one might end up as a pseudo-love interest for Seph. I think a few others will survive and show up in Junon and other places as retired SOLDIER or aged out commanders. I like to think some became the leaders of Deepground (Restrictors) and maybe we'll see Ragnarok in this. Something hilarious about online multiplayer characters in one game becoming the faceless online multiplayer badguys in another!

2. We've got some weird timeline questions. 30 years ago the project begins, 12 years ago they get the first candidates. Presuming SHINRA won't field anyone younger than 15-16 (which is kinda adulthood in the ff7 world), makes sense we'd see suitable candidates primed and worked on by the age of 3 or so. This make some sense that the early SOLDIERs weren't all done in the womb, and it raises questions in the SOLDIER-fication process. Did they improve it to make folks like Zack undergo infusion later in life? Or, are the "contemporary" SOLDIER vastly weaker in some manner to the original bunch? Really curious about the time and location this is taking place in, if it'll all be in the Midgar simulation, or if any of it will be on the Wutai battlefield.

3. Four classes so far: Ranger, Ninja, Monk, Warrior. Will we get other classes? There's no gunner, notably.

4. The Turks are curiously never seen in this, which while fine, has been a big part of FF7 marketing (imo). Vincent would rile folks up for sure. I'm not sure who Hojo is pointing a gun at. The scene looks slightly more like Icicle Inn to me, but I could also see the Mansion Basement getting revamped.

I really am incredibly happy to see them expanding the lore in this direction. I doubt many people agree, but I think the FF franchise can and should rival Star Wars in size, scope, and expansiveness and FF7 is a core part of that. I don't think the story is just Sephiroth and Jenova. There's more and I'd love to see it touched upon.

Finally? Gillian, Angeal's dad and stepdad, Ifalna, and possibly other Cetra. I wonder what characters are going to show up and suddenly matter a lot.

I'm all in. #lorejunkie
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Maybe Angeal just didn't put the sword on his back until he was a first. He said it was heavy to carry in one of the DMW scenes.

Zack: Don’t you think it’s about time you used that sword?

Angeal: This sword…is heavy and unwieldy.

Zack: Tch! Then why don’t you bring a lighter one?

It's also hard to tell if that soldier has Angeal's widows peak because of the way the hair is parted.

Angeal always carried the Buster Sword with him when he received it from his parents, and he carried it on his back even when using a regular SOLDIER issued sword. Zack examines the photos at Angeal's home in Chapter 3, and he says upon looking:

Zack said:
Oh, a picture of Angeal! Wow, he's young! Must have been taken when he first joined SOLDIER. And there's that Buster Sword... Here's a family picture. Look at Angeal, showing off that Buster Sword again. This must be Angeal's father. He looks as serious as I imagined him. Baby picture! This is Angeal!? Aww, how adorable... Now, these two little runts must be Angeal and...Genesis...

Every photo of Angeal from his Shinra SOLDIER days has him carrying the Buster Sword.

Zack said:
Baby Angeal, Angeal and Genesis as kids, family picture, and Angeal's proudest day... He's always holding that Buster Sword with such pride and care. Looking at these pictures, I'm starting to understand how he became the man that he is.

Angeal is shown and described by everyone, that he never removes his sword. In fact the only time he removes his sword is when he "lost his dreams and honor." That's why it's a significant shock to Zack and his mother to see him leave it behind. So no, he simply wouldn't fight without it and he made it to 1-C while carrying it. Given his abilities, it's weight isn't really a problem at all.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
People have strangely high expectations for the story in a battle royale game :monster:

I'd be surprised if there's anything more to this than unlockable lore text dumps. The CG trailer animation will likely be the highest budget thing about this :monster:

I also think all the SOLDIERs in the trailer are most likely just stand-ins for PCs instead of characters of importance ("young Sephiroth" doesn't have cat eyes and his eyebrows are the wrong color).
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
It may not be covered in the First SOLDIER at first, but it's story is certainly going to be covered in Ever Crisis.

And given the fact Nomura stated specifically he would use the game to explore the earliest days of Sephiroth, it's why it seems extremely coincidental for someone young with silver hair to show up in a trailer that features the inclusion of all the key memorable characters behind SOLDIER.

The gameplay will be divided into chapters to make it easier to play, and will cover the entire "FFVII" series, including the original, previous compilations, and the newly announced "FFVII FS". In other words, the aforementioned story based on the setting of "FFVII FS" can be enjoyed as a new work here. Since the story takes place before the establishment of Soldier, it will naturally include the young days of the legendary hero. The story is the main feature of the game, and the scenario has been written by Nojima-san, so please look forward to it.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
We've got some weird timeline questions. 30 years ago the project begins, 12 years ago they get the first candidates.
For the first SOLDIERs to have finally "emerged from the fray" 18 years ago (12 years later) after countless failures and casualties, that suggests there were candidates prior. Who else are these casualties supposed to be?
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Gillian was working on a... very interesting project at Shinra back in the day according to some NPC dialouge around the Shinra building... So I bet it's her talking with Hollander. They *did* have a kid together... funnily, Gillian looks like a female Genesis... which also makes a ton of sense given how Genesis was... essentially created; he's all but a clone of Gillian...
This isn’t something to discuss publicly...
But the Science Department was researching
about making copies of SOLDIER operatives.
Do you remember Angeal? I think his mother
was assisting the research at the time.
As a "fun" note... "making copies of SOLDIER" is more literally... "making SOLDIER Copies". It's the same way Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis Copies are refereed to in Japanese.

SOLDIER on the look-out for hot women in Shinra...
I heard that Angeal’s mother used to work for Shinra.
For the Science Department, I believe.
From all accounts, she was quite the hottie.
Wait, wait. Don’t get me wrong!
I’m not going for Angeal’s mom,
no matter how hot she is!
I’m not into the "mature" thing,
if you know what I mean.
So yes, Gillian has a reputation of being hot...

As for *when* this is happening... The dates are a bit tricky. Sephiroth has to have been born by 1980 (1977 is probably the best guess for a bunch of reasons). If this is happening 12 years after proejct S/G... Sephiroth should already be on the battlefield and out of training. CC Ulimania/Complete Guide has Sephiroth on the battlefield *before* he's ten. So unless some *major* retcons have gone in Sephiroth's childhood since CC, he *should* be long done with VR training. Angeal and Genesis are a bit iffier. We *do* know they joined SOLDIER after Sephiroth became famous though. How young... that's more debatable.

Of course... this all has the wrinkle that SOLDIER existed before the Jenova Project was ever a thing in some form. DeepGround became... well... DeepGround when Project G declared a failure. And it was a place SOLDIERs went to even back then as a hospital. Thing is... this projct *can't* be DeepGound. DeepGround never got into the habit of playing around with Jenova Cells like the SOLDIER project eventually would.

If I had to guess... SOLDIER was an entity with just mako until Jenova was discovered *not* to be a Cetra... and it turned out Sephiroth had above average combat abilities, the Science Department started messing around with combining Jenova with mako to make better SOLDIERs. And it took them twelve years to get the mixture right...

And speaking of getting mixtures of Jenova and mako right.... Sephiroth Copies *are* SOLDIERs. Failed ones that is. It's the exact same process to make a Sephiroth Copy as it is to make a SOLDIER (mako + Jenova Cells). It's just that SOLDIERs have a strong enough "sense of self" to not get mako poisoning or succumb to Jenova while Sephiroth Copies don't.

And one of the *biggest* retcons in Remake is that the Sephiroth Copy Project start date was moved from *after* the Nibelheim Incident to a very long time before the Remake started. Anyone want to be that not all the "failed" SOLDIERs from this time period died/were killed... but were instead released to see what they would do?
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
People have strangely high expectations for the story in a battle royale game
I really don't think I'll get any good story out of it, rather I think we'll get interesting lore tidbits that'll get fleshed out in Remake or an Ultimania.

For the first SOLDIERs to have finally "emerged from the fray" 18 years ago (12 years later) after countless failures and casualties, that suggests there were candidates prior. Who else are these casualties supposed to be?

Thanks for the catch on the 12 years Later. And yeah, I suppose my emphasis here is that we know Sephiroth isn't just the First Soldier then (which is heavily speculated still in some circles). The timeline questions are going to be around Sephiroth's age and if he's old enough to even be in the story. In some ways, I hope he isn't. I hope he's literally a snot-nosed punk kid that can't quite partake and these are the folks that he ends up outdoing and overshadowing.

Sephiroth needs to Warf Effect somebody here.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
The "countless failures and casualties" could easily be the failed experiments relegated to being thrown into Deepground and the prototypes who failed to exhibit the desired performance and/or longevity like those from Project G (I think it's very intentional that we see Hollander facepalming in frustration in the trailer upon the appearance of that text).

While Sephiroth may not have been the very first individual given the title of SOLDIER, he is clearly the first individual to exhibit the pinnacle of physical enhancement and genetic factors replicable within the population at large. He's the first success and it's his creation that ushers in the procedure that would allow numerous people to be enhanced and given the most stable form of superpowers necessary to meet Shinra's desires for power.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Picturing the Past has Sephiroth Copy #24 (Lilisa Meg) be made when Aerith was a kid while she was still living in the Shinra Building. Which...

*does some math*

Aerith was born in 1985. If she's what... five... let's say? in Picturing the Past, then it's 1990 when Lilisa is made into Sephiroth Copy #24.

If you think they started working on the modern version of SOLDIER in 1980, there'd be two more years to go. If you think it was a bit earlier... they'd be nearly finished by 1990. Either way, that's 24 Sephiroth copies in 10-12 years. And we *know* there are more than 24 Sephiroth Copies by the start of Remake. Marco is Sephiroth Copy # 49...

And Sephiroth Copy #2 is said to be a former SOLDIER in Remaek. If Hojo *is* making them in chronological order... wonder what experiments that guy could have come out from...
 

Thenir

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nirnaeth
Nomura has been chiming in throughout the livestream as a voiceover. He addresses the "Sephiroth-like" character in the new trailer we've been speculating about.

"We saw some observations if he's THAT character [Sephiroth], but no, he's just a random character."

Ok, I'm disappointed.
So probably the other short haired guy isn't Angeal as well.
Dang, I had already made up my head canon about the third guy being Kunsel..
 
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