Final Fantasy VII: The First Soldier

TurquoiseHammer

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Obviously agree, though the fact they're going to have their own Ever Crisis chapter opens the door a tiny bit for speculation.

I think the helicopter scene is set in roughly 1989 (2007 - 30 + 12), so Cloud would be about 3 years old at that time. So it just barely works with the existing chronology. Still, I can't see any reason they'd write that in other than cheap shock value.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

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People still thinking Cloud's a biological clone, in 2021?

Goddamn, the FFVII OG localization is the curse that keeps on giving.
 
TurquoiseHammer

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
I don't disagree but just to be clear, the author of the theory isn't talking about the Sephiroth Copy project. He's putting forth a totally different hypothesis that Cloud was a test tube experimental baby made with blond helicopter dude's DNA. I think. I should probably watch the whole video lol but I find it so hard to watch YouTube format theory vids, with Sleepezi being maybe the sole exception.
 
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Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

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Pretty sure he's making that theory in part because Cloud is repeatedly called a clone throughout FFVII. Like, that whole connection places the seed for that kind of thinking. I don't think they made that theory in a vacuum.
 
Thenir

Thenir

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Ultimasamune said:
I think the helicopter scene is set in roughly 1989 (2007 - 30 + 12), so Cloud would be about 3 years old at that time. So it just barely works with the existing chronology. Still, I can't see any reason they'd write that in other than cheap shock value
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The novel states that Cloud's father disappeared on Mt Nibel when he was still a baby, implying his death. Normally I'd take into account the hypothesis this is just a red herring - that he just left his family and he'll appear again - but his death fits perfectly the motivations behind Cloud's behaviour the day of the accident on Mt Nibel, the mount itself as a symbol of death and the overall FF7 theme of "meeting again in the afterlife".
 
TurquoiseHammer

TurquoiseHammer

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Okay, I'm taking the bullet and watching the vid.

-Ray doesn't realize that Nomura pointed out the helicopter trio will be named characters with their own content, so he actually has more of an incentive to theorize than he thinks
-Surface level, what if blond guy is Cloud's dad?
-Going deeper, what if Cloud's dad wasn't his biological dad? He has a mom, but he was the result of Shinra trying to reproduce the process that made Sephiroth using blondie's sperm in the way Hojo's sperm were presumably used for Sephiroth
-Nibelheim is a very X-files-esque Truman Show type horror show even before Cloud's birth, after Shinra presumably wrested it from the Junon Republic. So, even before Sephiroth burned it down, it was already inhabited by Shinra employees acting at being residents
-Cloud will uncover more about this stuff when he visits Nibelheim, not just the Sephiroth Copy experiment evidence
-This serves as part of the new basis for Cloud's identity crisis. Jenovaroth points it out and Vincent seems to know about it because the experiment would have been ongoing when he was a Turk (although that doesn't actually line up chronologically)
-This would explain how Cloud had the strength to send Sephiroth into the Lifestream

There's a million things I find farfetched about this theory, but if I had to choose one it's the needless layering of gotcha genetic experiments. Everyone and their mother has wondered at some point whether there was something special about Cloud that allowed him to counter Sephiroth in the reactor, but most people over time come to agree that Cloud's relative mediocrity is pivotal to who he is as a character. Adding some weird superhuman backstory would completely dismantle that and jeopardize what fans love about him and his narrative arc.
 
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TurquoiseHammer

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
If I had to guess I'd say the helicopter trio are just going to be the party we use during the Ever Crisis chapter that covers the SOLDIER recruitment time period, and maybe some of the Wutai War when we witness Sephiroth. Unless we play as Sephiroth during that chapter, which would be sick. Maybe kid Sephiroth is the final boss and he wipes out the trio on orders from Shinra because they've learned something sensitive, or are trying to defect, or else have just served their purpose for the company.

Or--and this is opening up a whole 'nother can of worms about whether the details of Project G have been retconned in Remake--they'll suffer from degradation and substantiate President Shinra's seemingly baseless claim in Chapter 7.
 
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Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Thenir said:
The novel states that Cloud's father disappeared on Mt Nibel when he was still a baby, implying his death. Normally I'd take into account the hypothesis this is just a red herring - that he just left his family and he'll appear again - but his death fits perfectly the motivations behind Cloud's behaviour the day of the accident on Mt Nibel, the mount itself as a symbol of death and the overall FF7 theme of "meeting again in the afterlife".
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It's my belief that maybe we'll find out more about Cloud's dad in the moutains. Aka he met some experiment and died there, or was taken hostage to be experimented on. Cloud's dad liking to discover the world is a clear parallel with Cloud himself and his delivery service post OG, but just like Cloud does normally, his dad was supposed to come back but ended up dying in a horrible way because of Shinra. That's my theory about him. We'll definitely find out more in Remake, Nojima didn't leave that door grand opened for nothing.

As I read the Kids are Alright novella, I understood why people thought Cloud might be President Shinra's son (he and Evan are really similar in character), but that's BS IMHO, that's completely misunderstanding the parallels Nojima wanted to draw. Cloud's story works because he is a NOBODY.
 
TurquoiseHammer

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Eerie said:
It's my belief that maybe we'll find out more about Cloud's dad in the moutains. Aka he met some experiment and died there, or was taken hostage to be experimented on. Cloud's dad liking to discover the world is a clear parallel with Cloud himself and his delivery service post OG, but just like Cloud does normally, his dad was supposed to come back but ended up dying in a horrible way because of Shinra. That's my theory about him. We'll definitely find out more in Remake, Nojima didn't leave that door grand opened for nothing.

As I read the Kids are Alright novella, I understood why people thought Cloud might be President Shinra's son (he and Evan are really similar in character), but that's BS IMHO, that's completely misunderstanding the parallels Nojima wanted to draw. Cloud's story works because he is a NOBODY.
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That was also my gut reaction when I read ToTP. And the first place my mind went was that Cloud's father is Sephiroth Copy (or whatever they'll be called in Remake) #1. That may sound ridiculous, and I mean it totally is, but hear me out.

In the OG continuity, Hojo located Gast at Icicle Inn in about 1983, then waits roughly two years until Aerith is born to kill Gast and take away Ifalna and Aerith. We don't know when exactly Hojo learned Jenova wasn't an Ancient, but imo it's either at the same time Gast does (which I'd assume is around 1982 or 1983) or after reading Gast's research in 1985. If the latter is true, he may have then begun his Reunion experiment in the following years (in the Remake continuity, that is), with his first samples coming out in the late 80s, which is right about when Cloud's dad disappeared.

Why not Sephiroth Copy #2, who we've already seen? Sephiroth Copy #2 is said to have been a SOLDIER, and I just don't see Cloud's dad abandoning his family (or being coerced to abandon them) as well as having the rare mental and physical faculties to become a SOLDIER. Just way too out there imo. It seems more likely that #2 will turn out to be the blond helicopter dude, if anyone.
 
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Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

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And why would Hojo be prowling the mountains looking for half dead hikers all alone in the wilderness, when he could simply lift failed candidates from SOLDIER, poor Shinra employees and those wounded from war that are sent directly to the Science Dept for medical care? They're right there. He doesn't even have to look. Picturing the Past shows us this. Deepground shows us this.

The only reason this theorizing exists is to give Cloud's dad unwarranted importance and DC Comics connect him to the plot. Why would Hojo go out of the way with Shinra resources to find one nobody to randomly throw him into a Jenova experiment when he readily has samples up to his eyeballs within Shinra? Come on.
 
TurquoiseHammer

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Makoeyes987 said:
And why would Hojo be prowling the mountains looking for half dead hikers all alone in the wilderness, when he could simply lift failed candidates from SOLDIER and those wounded from war that are sent to the Science Dept for medical care? They're right there.

The only reason this theorizing exists is to give Cloud's dad unwarranted importance to DC Comics connect him to the plot. Why would Hojo go out of the way with Shinra resources to find one person to randomly throw him into a Jenova experiment when he readily has samples up to his eyeballs? Come on.
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I never said there was a good reason. But it wouldn't require any more suspension of disbelief that many of the other developments in the series. As far as totally unlikely fringe theories go, I find it more compelling than most.
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
People forget it, but Nojima didn't write Cloud's dad to be an arsehole. So, he didn't leave his family willingly. But, his stuff was found in the mountain. So that means other humans could have meddled with his fate - and Shinra/TURKs are not far away. I mean, he could have seen something he wasn't supposed to see, and that's how it went down (that's my "most probable theory" so far with him). He could have been experimented on because they caught him, but I'm wary of this - IMHO there's so much pain Cloud can take.

I also see Cloud as being fatherless the reason of why he acted the way he did as a kid, so it had a pretty big impact on his life.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

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By your own admission, it literally goes against everything that makes Cloud "Cloud". So, how is that equivalent to any other development? :monster:

It would require all the suspension of disbelief one would be reasonably expected to give because it flies thematically and narratively against what we know of the story and Hojo's sourcing of his experiments. Hojo just randomly found Cloud's dad in the mountains because he just was wandering around there and happened upon him for reasons? Who else did he secretly capture? Cloud's twin brother?
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

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The only time Hojo actively sought out to experiment on random everyday normal people in earnest was when Shinra needed the survivors of Nibelheim's massacre to be disposed of.

Actively prowling out-of-the-way backwoods and mountains for samples when Shinra grinds out people for the Science Department on the daily makes absolutely zero sense. Nevermind the nest of samples that exist in Deepground and SOLDIER.
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Shademp said:
Oh his dad is definitely just a normal guy...but Cloud's grandfather is Emperor Palpatine. :monster:
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