Final Fantasy XII Manga & One Manga

[The Twilight Mexican]

My egregious offenses? I defend Before Crisis and Crisis Core because for spin off games of limited scope within a smaller medium (a damn cell phone and PSP) they're alright. If these were stand alone, or full console RPGs like FFVII or FFXIII, no shit would I be mad at them.

Think that's going to be enough to get you into Heaven? You'll be kicking it with me in Hell, foo'.

I think that's your problem with evaluating these two games (aside from your almost anal attention to continuity detail ). You hold them to the same standard as a full fledged FF title.

As far as their gameplay goes, they're fine. It really is just the continuity clusterfucking that makes them such shit.

Their imperfections and changes are more than obvious and stupid, but those changes on their own aren't enough to make me hate them and throw out whatever positive contributions and qualities they may have in their own right. I look at more than just that.

I look at more than that too, but I'm not going to pretend they didn't screw the chocobo on what they did do wrong.

How the fuck can you even justify saying the damn movie is better than the book, when you jump down the throat of Before Crisis and Crisis Core, for changing shit and getting the continuity wrong of the original game? That's not just crazy, that's schizophrenic!

The "V for Vendetta" film obviously no more exists in the same continuity as the graphic novel than the "X-Men" films exist in the same continuity as the comics. It's an alternate reality, so you're free to do whatever.

Well, at least we agree that the body of the argument is dead, and now a spiritual remnant is all that's left.

What's that girdling your Lifestream right about now?

....Somehow, I'm a bit dubious of that claim.

He had a good sense of humor.

Oh gtfo. She didn't even make a convincing Bulma. I have no fucking clue who she even was, but she sure as shit wasn't Bulma.

Super sexy Bulma in an alternate reality.

And her shit characterization was only compounded by the fact they couldn't even bother giving her blue fucking hair. Because it's not realistic. In a fucking Dragonball movie. They're fucking worrying about the realism of BLUE HAIR...in a DRAGONBALL MOVIE. Do you not see the stupidity in such a statement and decision?!

They gave her blue highlights. And she was gorgeous. And you're complaining.

Gtfo off my Internet.

....Your admittance to your desire of polishing a turd kinda scares me.

I was talking about Emmy, you douche.

You can have a pulp, comic atmosphere without aging the celluloid and making the filming technique and technology regress dude.

I don't feel like they did that very well, honestly.

Don't get me wrong, I like the movie. There are parts of it I enjoy quite a bit.

But if you've read the comic, the film has absolutely nothing to offer you beyond its opening credits sequence -- which was fucking awesome. And also the only time the movie used film's own strengths to tell the story.

I thought the story was very nuanced and it certainly didn't back down from the themes of the original graphic novel.

Giving them Matrix moves wasn't missing the point by miles? Ozymandias should have been the only one moving like that.

Really, how many people who only saw the film got the impact of him catching the bullet? They'd been watching people move out of the way of gunshots throughout the film already.

When you read the comic and saw that happen, it truly caught you off guard. You would not have expected it. It was superhuman -- but, then, so is most of what the entire cast does in the film.

Its like you're nitpicking here.

Matrix moves is not nitpicking. That's just questioning whether Zack Snyder had any clue what he was doing at those points.

How the hell can you defend fucking Dragonball Evolution, and then needle the filming technique of Watchmen? Where the hell are the priorities?

On doing shit right.

"Dragonball Evolution" did what it should have done. It needed to be lighthearted, a bit campy, and largely forgettable.

"Watchmen" needed to stop slowing down the camera during fight scenes to emphasize how fucking insanely cool these people are even though one of the book's primary purposes was to emphasize how not so awesome and beyond the normal person these superheroes really were.

Your misrepresentation and reduction of the well chosen and appropriate soundtrack angers and confuses me.

I like the soundtrack. I think they did a great job with it on the whole.

Credits music sucked, though. And the music you play in the credits is, to me, as important as the music you play anywhere in the film. The music you select for the credits is basically you telling the audience how to feel about what they've just watched -- it's the feeling people take with them as they're walking out of the theatre.

You fuck that up, you've fucked up the whole damn thing.

And playing "Desolation Row" -- especially the MCR version -- as the denouement to millions of people being murdered for the sake of averting the deaths of the other billions still alive -- who have now been unknowingly united in a lie by the single greatest choice of "needs of the many before the needs of the few" ever made -- doesn't work for shit. The mood is completely wrong.

Where's some "Tomorrow, Wendy"? I don't care if it came out a few years after 1986 -- something like that would have been perfect.

It was a stylized, and fantastical Earth, but Earth all the same. You can clearly see themes of the 80's and 90's in the Dragonball setting. Guess Dragonball Evolution fucked up in that instant too, missing the nuanced world setting of the original manga there.

Again, alternate Earth. Very alternate.

As far as being stylized and fantastical goes, I actually thought they did a really fine job setting up the Earth they did for DE. Was it different from that of the manga and anime? Sure.

It was something all its own, but it still met the standard for being simultaneously alien and familiar.

There are some things novels and graphic novels have that a film can never articulate or depict. If a person's preference for those traits and nuance are what they look for most in a fictional story, then by the very nature of their tastes, a movie will always be secondary to what they read, in terms of memorability and enjoyment. Movies have more avenues of depicting and illustrating a good, well done story, but books and graphic novels can't be completely made obsolete or inferior by that same logic.

I don't disagree. But I am saying that the idea of a FFXII manga -- when you already have a great game that does more than the manga could ever hope to do -- is fucking stupid.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Think that's going to be enough to get you into Heaven? You'll be kicking it with me in Hell, foo'.

Oh yeah, right.

As far as their gameplay goes, they're fine. It really is just the continuity clusterfucking that makes them such shit.

And even then, those mistakes are not enough to detract the original story and plot the games are trying to tell. Yeah, they're enough for geeks like us to notice and chide them over, but in terms of actually giving Zack a compelling, and emotional backstory? No, it doesn't miss the mark in that respect at all. The characterization, plot, and gameplay is good. Yeah, it might re-write history but it doesn't make itself a turd like Dragonball Evolution did, in terms of its story and depiction.

I look at more than that too, but I'm not going to pretend they didn't screw the chocobo on what they did do wrong.

Yeah, Kitase and the rest should pay more attention to detail. I agree, but dude, its not like that literally warps and destroys the original story they're trying to tell. I liked CC's story, even if it did stray a bit from the source material.

The "V for Vendetta" film obviously no more exists in the same continuity as the graphic novel than the "X-Men" films exist in the same continuity as the comics. It's an alternate reality, so you're free to do whatever.

So that's all it takes to forgive contradictions and unnecessary change? LOL, wow. That still doesn't change the fact the film's very theme, and message was radically simplified in the film adaptation. It doesn't matter if its AU or not. They fucked it up.

Crisis Core, while having contradictions, (which are really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of continuity...BC is different animal entirely) is closest to the theme of FFVII in terms of its depiction and presentation. How you can accept vast contradictions and changes to a story in its film adaptation, that truly changes what its message is...while needling CC for having a few changes, that don't change the continuity or story in the end, is beyond me. The differences in CC are negligible and really don't change much at all. The egregious offenders would be Before Crisis, and then Dirge of Cerberus.

He had a good sense of humor.

That's true, he did. But I don't think anyone would want their last acting experience on Earth to be with Jean Claude Van Dame. Unless they were a masochist.

Super sexy Bulma in an alternate reality.

She wasn't even that fucking sexy. And if you're gonna pin the name "Bulma" on her, she should at least partially resemble the true Bulma in some respect. Aside from being annoying.

They gave her blue highlights. And she was gorgeous. And you're complaining.

Gtfo off my Internet.

Blue highlights, ain't blue hair. Gtfo out and fap to your psuedo Bulma.

I was talking about Emmy, you douche.

Giving them Matrix moves wasn't missing the point by miles? Ozymandias should have been the only one moving like that.

Really, how many people who only saw the film got the impact of him catching the bullet? They'd been watching people move out of the way of gunshots throughout the film already.

When you read the comic and saw that happen, it truly caught you off guard. You would not have expected it. It was superhuman -- but, then, so is most of what the entire cast does in the film.

That's a valid criticism, but to be honest, I did get that impression when Ozymandias caught the bullet. I don't know if its because I went in, with the knowledge of the comic, but when I saw the movie, I knew Ozymandias was better than the rest.

The other superheroes besides Dr. Manhattan did seem very human. They just seemed really skilled and in shape. They didn't strike me as superhuman as Ozymandias.

Matrix moves is not nitpicking. That's just questioning whether Zack Snyder had any clue what he was doing at those points.

I don't think they were that Matrixy, dude. They were cool, but when they tried to take on Ozymandias, it was painfully clear they were no match for him.

On doing shit right.

"Dragonball Evolution" did what it should have done. It needed to be lighthearted, a bit campy, and largely forgettable.

So wait, they should've aimed at being a forgettable, shitty movie with no real value at all? They shouldn't have done their best to make a good movie?

Holy shit, and I thought I was jaded.

There's no reason it couldn't have been a good, solid movie in and of itself.

"Watchmen" needed to stop slowing down the camera during fight scenes to emphasize how fucking insanely cool these people are even though one of the book's primary purposes was to emphasize how not so awesome and beyond the normal person these superheroes really were.

A fair point. I can't really argue that. But I don't think they tried to show them as being superhuman or anywhere close to the level of Ozymandias. It was just stylistic choice in fight depiction. They had to make it entertaining to watch.

Credits music sucked, though. And the music you play in the credits is, to me, as important as the music you play anywhere in the film. The music you select for the credits is basically you telling the audience how to feel about what they've just watched -- it's the feeling people take with them as they're walking out of the theatre.

You fuck that up, you've fucked up the whole damn thing.

Interesting views on credit music. I see your point. Can't really argue on your tastes really.

I don't disagree. But I am saying that the idea of a FFXII manga -- when you already have a great game that does more than the manga could ever hope to do -- is fucking stupid.

So why bother making manga adaptions of shit, anyways?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Oh yeah, right.

You're right. That ship has long since sailed and hit the iceberg.

And even then, those mistakes are not enough to detract the original story and plot the games are trying to tell.

Yeah, they're enough for geeks like us to notice and chide them over, but in terms of actually giving Zack a compelling, and emotional backstory? No, it doesn't miss the mark in that respect at all.

Of course not. It just places that compelling, emotional backstory in an alternate reality from the one where FFVII exists.

Yeah, Kitase and the rest should pay more attention to detail. I agree, but dude, its not like that literally warps and destroys the original story they're trying to tell.

It just warps and destroys reality. That's the horse you're backing, Mako.

So that's all it takes to forgive contradictions and unnecessary change?

Not "contradictions," again, because it's a different reality from the outset. As far as the changes go, though: yes.

LOL, wow. That still doesn't change the fact the film's very theme, and message was radically simplified in the film adaptation. It doesn't matter if its AU or not. They fucked it up.

It was trying to explore and say something different. And, really, that's what concepts like this should be able to do -- serve as springboards for exploring whatever the current time period needs explored.

The differences in CC are negligible and really don't change much at all. The egregious offenders would be Before Crisis, and then Dirge of Cerberus.

I actually think CC's contradictions were far more egregious. Yeah, DC has like two more in quantity, but looking at the value of the ones wrought by CC, one's simply left astounded at the stupid.

That's true, he did. But I don't think anyone would want their last acting experience on Earth to be with Jean Claude Van Dame. Unless they were a masochist.

That is quite the way to go.

She wasn't even that fucking sexy.

Wow, Mako. It's one thing to shoot your credibility in the face on a discussion-to-discussion basis by defending that steaming mess of shit that is Crisis Core, but I think you just fired a bullet that's going to keep penetrating your credibility's face every time you start to type.

That's quite the firearm.

And if you're gonna pin the name "Bulma" on her, she should at least partially resemble the true Bulma in some respect. Aside from being annoying.

She was sexy. And used guns.

Blue highlights, ain't blue hair. Gtfo out and fap to your psuedo Bulma.

Way ahead of you.

That's a valid criticism, but to be honest, I did get that impression when Ozymandias caught the bullet. I don't know if its because I went in, with the knowledge of the comic, but when I saw the movie, I knew Ozymandias was better than the rest.

You knew he was better than the rest because he was kicking all their asses. But I asked quite a few people who hadn't read the comic how the bullet scene struck them, and they didn't realize it was supposed to be quite so impressive.

So wait, they should've aimed at being a forgettable, shitty movie with no real value at all? They shouldn't have done their best to make a good movie?

Dude, it's "Dragonball." The source material is already largely forgettable -- and I say that as somebody who loves "Dragonball."

Seriously, trying to make a "good movie" out of it would be a misstep in conceptualization from the outset.

There's no reason it couldn't have been a good, solid movie in and of itself.

It was a fun, solid movie in and of itself. I have no complaints about it at all.

They had to make it entertaining to watch.

Since we're talking about Jean Claude movies, "Bloodsport" is entertaining to watch, but it didn't use that shit.

Interesting views on credit music. I see your point. Can't really argue on your tastes really.

Yet you keep trying.

So why bother making manga adaptions of shit, anyways?

That's a good question.

 

[NoenGaruth]

Right, well you guys went right off topic, however I have an urgent question concenring the manga for anyone who might know.

In the 4 volumes that are out, does Gabranth appear at all? I'm hoping to use this as a loophole for a cosplay competition that only allows Anime and Manga characters (people have done this before for other series to use video game characters).

 

[Max Payne]

Jesus get a fucking room already.

and no I am not back, I r too poor.

 

[ForceStealer]

Shit, first Aaron and now Dacon

 

[Super Mario]

'ALLO LUVS WHERES THE RUM?