Final Fantasy XII

[ForceStealer]

Re: FF12

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=340.msg10296#msg10296 date=1232576652]
How does the political power struggle in FFXII not effect the main characters when:

1.) Vaan lost his brother and family to it.
2.) Penelo lost her family to it.
3.) Basch lost his freedom, honor, family, and home because of it.
4.) Ashe lost her kingdom because of it
5.) Balthier lost his father because of it.[/quote]

And all of those either had already occurred by the time the game started or occurred in the opening moments. Throughout your course of the game following these characters very little affects them directly.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Re: FF12

That doesn't diminish their impact on the characters at all. Most of those events continue impacting them all through the game til the end.

Hell, Sephiroth burned down Nibelheim and killed Tifa and Cloud's parents before the start of FFVII. Does that mean it doesn't directly affect them?

And most of the events of the game do effect them, with them being pursued and dogged by the Empire all through the game.

 

[Masamune]

Re: FF12

Ashe having the option of becoming a puppet queen of the Empire or taking matters into her own hands is an example of the political core of the story. We also have Larsa who acts as a mediator whilst Vayne is seizing autocracy for himself.

 

[Max Payne]

Re: FF12

I don't get what's so hard to follow about the story. Other than the fact that some of it is spread out pretty far between gameplay segments during the beginning.

 

[Masamune]

Re: FF12

The only reason I got detached from the plot sometimes is when I'd go off levelling up/hunting for hours upon hours. The gameplay is so addictive and seamless with the real-time engine.

 

[Max Payne]

Re: FF12

Yeah. Fuck the haters.

The gameplay in 12 is fucking awesome.

If it could be made any better for me, it'd be if the character controlled by the player was controlled in realtime i;e being able to control when a character combos, and blocks attacks, but with the turn based elements still available to whoever wants them.

With the gambit system intact of course. Which is funny, because I was one of the biggest naysayers of the game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Re: FF12

I really do hate the whole screen change that happens in ATB fighting systems. It just...annoys me so much.

Like someone constantly jumping in front of you and screaming.

I like how you can SEE the enemies so when you fight it's not like BAMF! BATTLE TEIM!!!!

It just...happens.

You're exploring the Necrohol of Nabudis, a Gazer sees you, floats closer to you, and you're fighting. No screen change, no loud, sudden noise, just....fighting.

 

[Masamune]

Re: FF12

I would have liked the unarmed option to have been developed. That would have really suited Fran.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Re: FF12

It was. You can fight unarmed and equip the accessory that makes you do uber damage with your barefists if you equip it. Or was it a license? I can't remember right now, cause I never did it.

I'm not sure what else you wanted.

 

[Masamune]

Re: FF12

Really? I always remember it doing piss-poor damage when I tried it. Oh well.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: FF12

I think there was a monk option.

... in International Zodiac Job System

 

[Makoeyes987]

Re: FF12

There's some augment on the License Board or accessory you wear that makes you do serious damage while barefisted.

Ahh, I looked it up, it's the "Amber Armlet."

The license I was thinking of is just in the Zodiac Job Version.

 

[Max Payne]

Re: FF12

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=340.msg10555#msg10555 date=1232664262]
I really do hate the whole screen change that happens in ATB fighting systems. It just...annoys me so much.

Like someone constantly jumping in front of you and screaming.

I like how you can SEE the enemies so when you fight it's not like BAMF! BATTLE TEIM!!!!

It just...happens.

You're exploring the Necrohol of Nabudis, a Gazer sees you, floats closer to you, and you're fighting. No screen change, no loud, sudden noise, just....fighting.
[/quote]

Yeah, it really kept you immersed.

AND FFS I WANT ZODIAC FUCK YOU SE

 

[Arianna]

Re: FF12

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=340.msg10568#msg10568 date=1232664942]The license I was thinking of is just in the Zodiac Job Version.[/quote]

Did the USA ever get that? And, was there really anything special and story changing/altering (in any way) that makes getting that version a good choice? Just curious...

[quote author=Dacon link=topic=340.msg10550#msg10550 date=1232663719]The gameplay in 12 is fucking awesome.[/quote]

Truth! It's always good to see an enemy that you have no possible chance of beating at your current level running towards you. ;D

 

[looneymoon]

Re: FF12

The gameplay of FF12 alone is the reason why I love it so much. I don't think there's any other RPG I've played where I can have so much fun just fighting enemies and levelling up.

I actually like the majority of the cast as well. I didn't have any trouble following the story at first, but I sorta got sidetracked by hunts and stuff as well. That's really nothing new with me when playing games through on the first run though.

 

[ForceStealer]

Re: FF12

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=340.msg10510#msg10510 date=1232653384]
That doesn't diminish their impact on the characters at all. Most of those events continue impacting them all through the game til the end.

Hell, Sephiroth burned down Nibelheim and killed Tifa and Cloud's parents before the start of FFVII. Does that mean it doesn't directly affect them?

And most of the events of the game do effect them, with them being pursued and dogged by the Empire all through the game.
[/quote]

Of course it affects them, but if Sephiroth and WEAPONs and Shinra duked it out the whole game and rarely encountered the party, it would diminish things a bit.
Yop summed up exactly what I was saying, very little of the main plot DURING the main plot directly affects the characters. Occasionally it all links up, and all those parts are great. But the rest of time I feel rather disconnected from what's going on.

Now, I know all these comments weren't aimed at me, but just to clarify, I am not a hater, I don't hate FF12. As I said I want to give it another shot when I get home, and even in my last play-through I did still play 15 hours I didn't just toss it aside after 2. The scope and organization of Ivalice fascinates me, and like I said FF Tactics is up there as one of my favorite video games.

The battle system, I don't dislike it, but I'm not crazy about it either. I think its just the halfway-ness of it. Everything about the battle sets up as though its going to be realtime and then it isn't. I mean, it kind of is, but then it isn't. Like Dacon said, if it were real time it would have fully active controls - but then it wouldn't feel like a Final Fantasy to me, so as you can see, I'm not sure how i feel about it.
(I still think the ultimate FF battle system, for all the game's flaws, was FFX-2's)

The only two things I actually dislike about the game are the License Board (the Zodiac jobs sound sweet and I wish I could play with that) and the disconnect that at least I perceive between the story and the characters. And I DO like the story (with Vayne and all, great stuff), but the only characters who affected me in anyway were Balthier because I love his attitude and Basch because I loved the mystery of what really happened between him and the King.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: FF12

[quote author=Arianna link=topic=340.msg10605#msg10605 date=1232678136]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=340.msg10568#msg10568 date=1232664942]The license I was thinking of is just in the Zodiac Job Version.[/quote]

Did the USA ever get that? And, was there really anything special and story changing/altering (in any way) that makes getting that version a good choice? Just curious...[/QUOTE]
It hasn't been released outside of Japan.

It doesn't really have any story related additions, at least nothing that wasn't already in the English version (I think; I've never played the English localization). It's pretty much gameplay changes (Zodiac Job System [12 different licence boards for different jobs], Trial Mode [100 levels of battles, including a fight against all 5 Judge Masters at once], 16:9 wide-screen output, a button to speed up gameplay, controllable guest characters and summoners, Strong [characters start at level 90] and Weak New Game [no EXP] modes, plus a lot of other little changes to enemies, items, magic, etc.).

 

[Tennyo]

Re: FF12

The gameplay tweaks are what I want. That would have been so awesome to have all that stuff. D: Especially the pre-set license boards. The one thing that does erk me was the fact that I have to end up wasting my LP trying to teach my characters stuff that I don't want them to learn just so that I can get tom to squares that I do want them to learn.

 

[ForceStealer]

Re: FF12

Yeah, and the whole notion that I essentially have to buy a piece of equipment twice, once for real and once on the board. It's like we're dealing with Microsoft or something.

And I know FF game mechanics always make for some confusing logic if you take it out to real life, but still, buying the right to use a hat is kinda funny, what else are you going to do with it?

 

[Purple]

Re: FF12

[quote author=looneymoon link=topic=340.msg10620#msg10620 date=1232686584]
The gameplay of FF12 alone is the reason why I love it so much. I don't think there's any other RPG I've played where I can have so much fun just fighting enemies and levelling up.

I actually like the majority of the cast as well. I didn't have any trouble following the story at first, but I sorta got sidetracked by hunts and stuff as well. That's really nothing new with me when playing games through on the first run though.
[/quote]

Exactly what I was gonna say

 

[Cthulhu]

Re: FF12

Holy shit, Japs are nuts, . Nevertheless, those addons are pretty neat.

One thing that kinda did frustrate me at points was that you were almost forced to remain in an area and grind away until you had enough cash to buy the latest weapons, in order to be not annoyed to death by... well, death. Skeletons / undead provide (as far as I could discern) the most moolah-worth loot, so I've spent quite a few hours killing those to get the cash.

At one point I spent a while at I dunno where, some swamp near some forest with uber l33t enemies, which had a passage to some shrine which was just covered in skeletal dudes, giving my characters ultimate leveling and cash, for great justice.

I think I've maxed all the characters before finishing the game, even. And contrary to FFX (and other previous 'uns), it wasn't as annoying because it was a lot faster, and the screen didn't break all the time.

Ergo, awesome. The battle system may have its flaws, but I find it a lot more enjoyable than previous battle systems, mainly due to the reduced start / exit times (and the lack of a victory theme every time you pwned someone).

I think that the turn-based combat system of yore could still work, but then only for boss battles, not for smallish battles with smallisher enemies that die within a few seconds.

 

[Arianna]

Re: FF12

[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=340.msg10769#msg10769 date=1232759109]
Yeah, and the whole notion that I essentially have to buy a piece of equipment twice, once for real and once on the board. It's like we're dealing with Microsoft or something.

And I know FF game mechanics always make for some confusing logic if you take it out to real life, but still, buying the right to use a hat is kinda funny, what else are you going to do with it?
[/quote]

Microsoft... lol!

Here's a little comic I think you'll like (if you haven't seen it already):

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=215

 

[Max Payne]

Re: FF12

I dislike VGcats so much.

 

[H]

Re: FF12

[quote author=Cthulhu link=topic=340.msg10847#msg10847 date=1232803646]One thing that kinda did frustrate me at points was that you were almost forced to remain in an area and grind away until you had enough cash to buy the latest weapons, in order to be not annoyed to death by... well, death. [/quote]

That's where the bazaar comes in handy. I just sell off enough junk for the packages, and it's a lot cheaper than trying to buy them from the store itself.

 

[Max Payne]

Re: FF12

Stupid bazaar never had enough of the good stuff for me.