Final Fantasy XIII-2

[The Twilight Mexican]

My guess is instead of what happens in the main timeline, he spent time lamenting and/or caring for Caius' body after death - in other words, touched him or something and the heart transferred.

That's what confuses me. He can't die as long as he has the Heart of Chaos.

 

[Arianna]

Etro gave people hearts (Chaos).

She gave them chaos, but she didn't create it. I was taking the question as "made" as in "created".

 

[Splintered]

I always figured that the difference of destroying and inheriting the heart is a mental state. Noel spared him because Noel inherently values all life, not necessarily because he was scared of hurting Caius. You can be mentally prepared to kill, and still spare them.

It's just... badly conveyed.

He states pretty directly that he's ready to kill Caius during a return visit to the Dying World, it's one of the ways to get a fragment. It's one of the ironies of the game, HAD Noel killed him before the game started, before he had his journey of growth, everything would have been resolved. He would have Etro's heart without destroying it.

As far as why Caius can't destroy himself, I think for some weird reason, Etros tied the rules of her heart to the Guardian ritual which predates Caius, and is part of the reason Etros gave Caius the heart. Like how you inherited the guardianship and focus (fo protect Yuel) from one l'cie to the next, it's the same with the heart of chaos. He needed to be slain my a guardian's hand, and a guardian who was skilled enough and was mentally prepared to take the next step. And that didn't happen until the end of XIII-2.

EDIT

Words of Protectors Past The Heart of Chaos does not grant the Guardian power—it eats away at their physical self. Caius did not gain an immortal body, but was cursed with eternal life.
Heed my words, Noel. You are the last protector, and the only one who can wrest the Heart's strength from Caius. In the instant you strike the life from his body, you shall either inherit the curse, or break its eternal grip. Only your will can slay fate one way or the other.
—Ultima Brand

In that paradox ending, Noel got the heart because he didn't move fast enough to get away from it. It was not destroyed. That was not the point of the fight in that time line. It was explained in the datalog, or the Ultimania, I forget, but I remember someone saying that this is how it was transferred to him. My guess is instead of what happens in the main timeline, he spent time lamenting and/or caring for Caius' body after death - in other words, touched him or something and the heart transferred.

I've never heard the inheritance through proximity thing. I don't think a datalog ever said anything like that, do you have the link the ulti?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, I want to say that doesn't sound right. He stayed only a few feet from Caius's body in the real ending too, and even picked up his sword and stuck it in the ground right by his head. And the sword is apparently connected to Caius, seeing as it vanishes with his body.

 

[Strangelove]

Did Etro create the eidolons? I know she sent them, but don't remember her creating them. But I need to catch up on this stuff before LR.

i might also have made a deck for this to try to learn how to read all the writing

 

[Mwynn]

Someone has started translating Fragments Before. I heard the person will be doing Fragments After as well.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:FFXIII-2_Fragments_Before_Translation_Project

 

[Fangu]

Oh wow, that is just awesome, thank you so much for raising attention to this.

I think it's wonderful she's used Google Docs. It's super easy for people to mark sections and comment on them, if they have suggestions for improvement.

It's a really good quality translation. Mind you I've only read two pages but if the rest is like that... can't wait to read all of it <3

Do you have the link to ch 1? I remember that one being posted by someone else (on GameFAQs was it?) but I'm too lazy to find it X)

 

[Mwynn]

Chapter 1 has the same content as Episode I, so it was skipped.

 

[Splintered]

So I skimmed a bit of Serah's and a bit of Snow's and some thoughts

1> Serah is going through some survivor's guilt, and unlike Lightning's this one kind of makes sense, even if it unfounded. Serah believing she was the start of all the drama which led to the purge is something I can see. I think it's very briefly hinted in XIII-2 as well, when Alyssa mentioned she was a purge survivor.

2> Serah is a history nerd and gets excited about learning stuff in Gran Pulse. That's adorable.

3> Snow's story in XIII-2, the dlc, and in this story is basically to be a hobo and hang out with animal friends

4> I'm glad it mentions when he left Serah and how he knew it was partially selfish. He says point blank that she could probably handle herself, but even with that he still didn't want to put her in harms way.

5> I think we know who the tribe of people of Archtype Steppe are from. Snow mentions that the old Psicom were discriminated and thrown out of society, so they went to the Steppe to live away from everyone.

I really like that. I've been trying to figure out who the fuck those guys were, but them being a colony of trained fighters makes sense, along with their reasoning of staying away from civilization and why they stay in harsher areas. They're warriors who were told Pulse was hell, and being in Steppe makes them think they aren't completely wrong.

6> Snow and Serah's story specifically mention about how magic becoming completely normal is really weird. I remember thinking that magic suddenly appearing because they leave near Pulse is bullshit reasoning and I'm pleasantly surprised the novel agrees with me.

But it also talks about it being strange in the same way that people accepting Lightning is not there was really strange. So it makes me think that magic appearing and everyone being okay with it has nothing to do with natural occurrences, or living near Pulse but due to chaos leaking into the world and space/time distortions.

Was this the conclusion we were suppose to come to? Because this makes a lot more sense. The fact we've got a foreign divinity type substance that's pretty much the cause of a lot of the issues in the world- starting to creep into the world is a much better explanation for magic than what we got.


EDIT

Oh that's cute. Going along with the Steppe=Psicom, it explains why there's all those cactaur statues allover the place. Apparently the cactaur fal'cie saved the village and during some celebrations, jokingly said they would make a statue of it. Then the joke grew and someone mentioned making a couple of statues... looks like they made good on their promise.

 

[Mwynn]

I actually enjoyed reading this kind of stuff as well (I've yet to read Hope's and Noel's chapters... I heard Noel's was pretty sad), particularly Serah being a teacher and Snow encountering PSICOM.

Looking forward to this guy translating Fragments After (I heard he will be starting at the beginning of August) just to see if the first ones we have read have some mistranslations.

 

[Storm XIII]

"But it also talks about it being strange in the same way that people accepting Lightning is not there was really strange. So it makes me think that magic appearing and everyone being okay with it has nothing to do with natural occurrences, or living near Pulse but due to chaos leaking into the world and space/time distortions."

Pulse's Resolution fragment implies that:

"...

When the timeline was changed and history broken, fissures appeared in the wall that separates the spirit and the material. The crystal power that was once bestowed only upon the l'Cie was released, and it permeated deep into the soil. Now normal humans can spin enchantments and spells&#8212;if they know how."

 

[Mwynn]

Just finished Chapters 4 and 5. I really liked Chapter 4 because of the political discussions, especially between Rygdea and Bartholomew. It's something that I wish was inserted more in the games in some way. Also, Rygdea's is an interesting character. Shame he's dead just because of the time travel plot going on.

Noel's chapter was indeed sad.

 

[Strangelove]

So, how does Noel receive it in that one Paradox Ending?

I have the Ultimania Omega's answer for this. In the Paradox Ending, even though Noel is about to finish off Caius, because he is lacks experience he ends up being taken in by the Heart of Chaos instead (explained by the spirit in the Dying World who talks about becoming cursed by the Heart if one doesn't have enough strength or conviction, and the 'Ultima Brand' fragment).

 

[Kuja9001]

I have the Ultimania Omega's answer for this. In the Paradox Ending, even though Noel is about to finish off Caius, because he is lacks experience he ends up being taken in by the Heart of Chaos instead (explained by the spirit in the Dying World who talks about becoming cursed by the Heart if one doesn't have enough strength or conviction, and the 'Ultima Brand' fragment).

That makes sense.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

So, the Heart chooses to leave Caius of its own accord without him being killed?

 

[Strangelove]

I need to look at the book again, but I think that 'about to finish off Caius' should be 'able to/does finish off Caius' (&#12459;&#12452;&#12450;&#12473;&#12395;&#12488;&#12489;&#12513;&#12434;&#12373;&#12375;&#12383;&#12418;&#12398;&#12398;&#8230

 

[mecorx]

I actually enjoyed reading this kind of stuff as well (I've yet to read Hope's and Noel's chapters... I heard Noel's was pretty sad), particularly Serah being a teacher and Snow encountering PSICOM.

Looking forward to this guy translating Fragments After (I heard he will be starting at the beginning of August) just to see if the first ones we have read have some mistranslations.

Hi, I'm actually already translating it! You can find the thread I've made about it in the "Rin's Travel Agency" sub-forum of the Final Fantasy Wikia forum.

I'm not planning to re-translate what has already been done, though. I've made some minor edits to parts that Hakurou, the previous translator, noted he was unsure of, but I can look over it properly, if you'd like?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I need to look at the book again, but I think that 'about to finish off Caius' should be 'able to/does finish off Caius' (カイアスにトドメをさしたものの…)

Ah, so right back where we started with the nonsensical dilemma of how it's possible to kill Caius without destroying the Heart/how it's possible to inherit the Heart since killing Caius requires dedtroying it. =(

They really failed to explain this key part of the plot.

 

[Mwynn]

I hope they explain it well in Lightning Returns.

 

[Arianna]

Here's the thing with the Heart... It is a part of Etro. She cannot be dead (which we've been told she is) if that heart is still in any way surviving.

I've got to find that part where I swear I heard it as, or at the very least comprehended the part as, the heart transferred to Noel from Caius - though Caius was dead. So, there's other ways to destroy him besides stabbing him straight through (Etro's) heart.

Hopefully it will be explained more, but I doubt it. Perhaps it's because I didn't hold much in the alternate endings, as well as found them to be an extra few cutscenes, with no real substance. The two that really interested me were Vanille's Truth and Test Subjects.

 

[Kuja9001]

Some help is needed

1. What was significant about Caius dying in Valhalla again?

2. "He plans to find her sleeping in her temple, kill her, and release the power."
.
That quote confuses me, unless it mean't that he planned to be killed by lightning.

 

[Splintered]

1. I don't know how much significance there is, but there's fan theory out there.

Valhalla is either the unseen realm, or the land between the seen and unseen realm. And that is linked to where the dead go. Valhalla is also described as a place where time and life/death don't work the same as they do in the real world.

The idea is that, you kill Caius in Valhalla, and Valhalla doesn't have the same rules about life and death, and therefore he didn't really die. Because you can't really die in a realm that doesn't have death.

It's loopy logic and it ignores the interview that says that "Caius might live on through chaos" but it's the best that we've got. And well, it would be weird to permanently kill someone in the land of the dead. Etros is a weird case.

2. "He plans to find her sleeping in her temple, kill her, and release the power."

Caius wants to break the world so one of the ways is to kill Etros. Etros is the god that is running Valhalla smoothly, so if she dies, Valhalla's "barriers" break down and chaos spills allover the real world. Etros has been losing power, and saving the team in FFXIII is the straw that broke the camel's back, so she was forced to "sleep" someplace hidden.

There's two ways to kill Etros, and that's either directly dispose of the body in person, or destroy the heart in him. But Caius has no direct control over destroying his heart, so he manipulates Noel into doing it, and when that fails at first he goes to Valhalla to take care of the problem directly. Etros summons Lightning and asks her to help protect Etros, which Lightning does.

So he plans to find Etros, who is sleeping because she used too much of her power, destroy her, breakdown the walls between the seen world and Valhalla, and release the power of chaos.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The idea is that, you kill Caius in Valhalla, and Valhalla doesn't have the same rules about life and death, and therefore he didn't really die. Because you can't really die in a realm that doesn't have death.

It's loopy logic and it ignores the interview that says that "Caius might live on through chaos" but it's the best that we've got.

Worse than loopy logic, it plain doesn't make sense. Serah dies even though Etro is gone and the two realms no longer have boundaries.

 

[Splintered]

Well, Serah dies a few seconds before the world goes to shit. If she could have held on a few seconds, it would be likely that she would be alive with everyone else.

But yeah, the fan theory doesn't account for a lot, like what happens to the dead after Valhalla breaks down, and what happens to people when they are killed now. It's more than likely that it's the chaos in Valhalla that matters to Caius dying rather than being in Valhalla itself.

 

[Kuja9001]

1. I don't know how much significance there is, but there's fan theory out there.

Valhalla is either the unseen realm, or the land between the seen and unseen realm. And that is linked to where the dead go. Valhalla is also described as a place where time and life/death don't work the same as they do in the real world.

The idea is that, you kill Caius in Valhalla, and Valhalla doesn't have the same rules about life and death, and therefore he didn't really die. Because you can't really die in a realm that doesn't have death.

It's loopy logic and it ignores the interview that says that "Caius might live on through chaos" but it's the best that we've got. And well, it would be weird to permanently kill someone in the land of the dead. Etros is a weird case.

Caius wants to break the world so one of the ways is to kill Etros. Etros is the god that is running Valhalla smoothly, so if she dies, Valhalla's "barriers" break down and chaos spills allover the real world. Etros has been losing power, and saving the team in FFXIII is the straw that broke the camel's back, so she was forced to "sleep" someplace hidden.

There's two ways to kill Etros, and that's either directly dispose of the body in person, or destroy the heart in him. But Caius has no direct control over destroying his heart, so he manipulates Noel into doing it, and when that fails at first he goes to Valhalla to take care of the problem directly. Etros summons Lightning and asks her to help protect Etros, which Lightning does.

So he plans to find Etros, who is sleeping because she used too much of her power, destroy her, breakdown the walls between the seen world and Valhalla, and release the power of chaos.

What body though? She's just a presence or spirit to my knowledge.