SPOILERS Final Fantasy XVI ending impressions

cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
Warning - open spoilers throughout

And with that, my first playthrough is finished. Now to burn the midnight oil and get my thoughts down. Honestly, my impression isn’t quite as positive as others. I will say that I loved the final showdown and post-credit scene. It's almost enough to make me forgive other grievances, but let's talk about them anyway. Here are the aspects of the story that I keep getting caught up on.

Joshua distances himself from Clive for about two thirds of the game. At first this seemed reasonable, I thought Joshua was doing it to prevent another Phoenix vs Ifrit fight. That theory seemed doubly true after Joshua sealed Ultima within himself, who desires Clive’s body (don’t we all). But then, in the downfall of Twinside, Joshua and Clive just… meet up. And there’s no issue to speak of. They even continue to adventure together from that point on. This begs the question, “Why was Joshua so elusive?”

For 13 years Clive was bound to the Sanbreque army, tasked with doing the nation's wet work and treated as less than human. Why didn’t Joshua make a move to rescue him? It’s later revealed that Joshua leads the Undying, a shadow organization with influence across Valisthea, so it’s not like he lacks the resources to reach out or even hide Clive if needed. It’s an incredible risk to leave his brother drifting from one battlefield to the next, especially with the lack of regard Sanbreque has for its bearers.

Afterwards, Clive steps into Cid’s shoes and spends five years rebuilding the Hideaway. Yet even away from the army’s watchful eye, Joshua remains distant. Why not track Clive down? Again, there’s no risk in doing so. Ultima’s presence within Joshua is not shown to be an issue when they do finally reunite in Twinside.

The core of the conflict for the first third of the game is the belief that Joshua is dead. Then for the second third, Clive is spurred on by the feather Joshua planted in his hand. But if there’s no real reason for Joshua and Clive to be separated, then the core of that conflict is removed. In retrospect, the drama feels contrived. And this isn’t the only instance.

Why does adult Joshua wear the same clothes as the “robed man” that appears to Clive during the Phoenix Gate incident? This same robed man continues to goad Clive 13 years later while Joshua is also traveling through Valisthea. Am I supposed to believe this is just a coincidence? The real world reason is that it’s a red herring meant to misdirect players. However, red herrings are only successful when they’re followed up on in a meaningful way. But XVI does nothing with it. It just serves to convolute an actually simple plot.

Joshua seals Ultima within himself so that he may stop their evil machinations. This is how the in-game tomes describe it, "sealed". Which seemingly works, except when it doesn’t. Take Olivier for example. Despite being sealed within Joshua, Ultima is still able to make the royal child his pawn. They're able to still do a lot of things actually. After Twinside, Ultima casts Primogenesis, maintains communication with Barnabas, and is even fought as a boss. And remember, Ultima's siblings are slumbering throughout this, it's not like there's another version going around. So what exactly did Joshua accomplish? Ultima is “sealed”, but apparently not enough to affect the plot.

Why doesn’t Barnabas just kill Jill when she’s captive, kill Mid during their fight on the Enterprise, or kill Gav in Eistla? Ultima repeatedly states that they need to “break the bonds” that tie Clive’s consciousness to his willpower, allowing his body to be taken over. Yet for all their talk, neither Barnabas or Ultima actually follow through on anything. Consider Dion for a moment. Ultima orchestrated events so that Dion kills his own father, the result of which broke down his consciousness and caused his overflowing willpower to abuse the power of his Eikon. Barnabas is presented with many opportunities to do the same to Clive, but the storytellers aren’t actually willing to pull the trigger. So they dance around it, causing events to be overly drawn out, melodramatic, and at times meaningless.

On the topic of Clive, it’s unfortunate that his character development plateaus about a third of the way into the story. In the beginning he has a clear motive: revenge. But in time the Cursebreakers help guide that anger. After Drake’s Head, Clive chooses to continue Cid’s dream. It’s natural, but there’s an issue. All that occurs in the first 36% of the story according to the PS5’s progression tracker. From there, Clive lacks any significant internal conflict. His only conflict is that he hasn’t achieved Cid’s dream yet. To be clear, Clive is still likable. No doubt he’s one of the more charming protagonists in the series’ history. The issue is that he ceases to be interesting, to me anyway.

I could go on. For me, XVI’s plot can be incredible. Some of the highest highs. I love the characters and world when I’m playing the game. But once I put the controller down, it begins to fall apart. Honestly there’s nothing overtly wrong. I see it as a “death by a thousand cuts” kind of thing. Clive’s internal conflict is resolved too early, Joshua is needlessly absent, Ultima’s dialogue is painfully repetitive, and Jill is constantly sidelined. These are the story’s biggest characters, so I can’t simply overlook it all. My verdict after my first playthrough:

Great moments, but not a great story.
 

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
Interesting points:

I think I can shed light on two of them.

Joshua seals Ultima within himself so that he may stop their evil machinations. This is how the in-game tomes describe it, "sealed". Which seemingly works, except when it doesn’t. Take Olivier for example. Despite being sealed within Joshua, Ultima is still able to make the royal child his pawn. They're able to still do a lot of things actually. After Twinside, Ultima casts Primogenesis, maintains communication with Barnabas, and is even fought as a boss. And remember, Ultima's siblings are slumbering throughout this, it's not like there's another version going around. So what exactly did Joshua accomplish? Ultima is “sealed”, but apparently not enough to affect the plot.
As stated by Ultima himself, each time Clive destroyed a mothercrystal, one of the Ultimas were liberated. That's because they sacrificed their bodies to become the hearts of crystal used to pump up aether.

Joshua sealed the first one, but before the whole Olivier thing, Clive destroyed the Ironblood crystal. If I'm not mistaken, the scene with Anabella and Olivier (where you see his dragoon toy glowing blue) in Randellah happens after, implying the second Ultima was already in action.

Why doesn’t Barnabas just kill Jill when she’s captive, kill Mid during their fight on the Enterprise, or kill Gav in Eistla? Ultima repeatedly states that they need to “break the bonds” that tie Clive’s consciousness to his willpower, allowing his body to be taken over. Yet for all their talk, neither Barnabas or Ultima actually follow through on anything. Consider Dion for a moment. Ultima orchestrated events so that Dion kills his own father, the result of which broke down his consciousness and caused his overflowing willpower to abuse the power of his Eikon. Barnabas is presented with many opportunities to do the same to Clive, but the storytellers aren’t actually willing to pull the trigger. So they dance around it, causing events to be overly drawn out, melodramatic, and at times meaningless.

Barnabas main goal was to have Mythos feast on the Eikons to become the perfect vessel. At that point, Clive didn't "feast" on Jill (literally:monster:), so killing her would be against his plan.
 
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cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
All good points.

With the way Joshua said “just try to get to my brother now”, I got the impression that it would have a bigger impact on the story. At the time I was theorizing that a corrupted Joshua would be the final boss, but alas.

Quick side note, the in-game tomes mention that some mothercrystals were destroyed even before the Phoenix Gate incident. So technically the Ultima at Drake’s Head isn’t the first one released. I don’t know, just thought that was an interesting detail.

You’re right regarding Jill. Still, for all of Ultima and Barnabas’s talk of undoing Clive’s “bonds of consciousness”, I expected more action on their part. There’s still plenty of other people they could’ve targeted. Instead, Ultima and Barnabas were content with chillin’ in their dens until Clive moseyed on over.

I also wanted to say that I agree with something you wrote in the general XVI thread, that the last third of the game, while being fantastical, still has the core themes of the rest of the story. As I was playing, I saw people online claim that XVI “goes off the rails” near the end with comparisons to Kingdom Hearts abound. I have a lot of critiques, but that isn’t one of them. To me it was a natural escalation of events.

Even from the demo one can surmise that something sinister is at work when considering Clive’s crippling migraines and the mysterious robed man. From there the story reveals the underground Fallen ruins, the incomplete mural, and then Ultima in earnest. So there are hints. I feel that XVI is par for the course with RPGs in general. Generally speaking they start grounded, but become apocalyptic by the end.

To be precise, my issue with the last third of the game is how repetitive the script becomes. Ultima and Barnabas exchange ideologies with Clive so many times. And it’s not like they reveal anything new to each other, it’s just the same talking points over and over. I really wish Barnabas was more interesting to alleviate this. Compared to the other side villains like Kupka and Anabella, he’s easily the least engaging.

Thinking about everything I wrote, I realize I sound very harsh towards XVI. Rest assured I still plan on getting the platinum trophy. There are aspects I like!
 

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
All good points.

With the way Joshua said “just try to get to my brother now”, I got the impression that it would have a bigger impact on the story. At the time I was theorizing that a corrupted Joshua would be the final boss, but alas.

Quick side note, the in-game tomes mention that some mothercrystals were destroyed even before the Phoenix Gate incident. So technically the Ultima at Drake’s Head isn’t the first one released. I don’t know, just thought that was an interesting detail.

You’re right regarding Jill. Still, for all of Ultima and Barnabas’s talk of undoing Clive’s “bonds of consciousness”, I expected more action on their part. There’s still plenty of other people they could’ve targeted. Instead, Ultima and Barnabas were content with chillin’ in their dens until Clive moseyed on over.

I also wanted to say that I agree with something you wrote in the general XVI thread, that the last third of the game, while being fantastical, still has the core themes of the rest of the story. As I was playing, I saw people online claim that XVI “goes off the rails” near the end with comparisons to Kingdom Hearts abound. I have a lot of critiques, but that isn’t one of them. To me it was a natural escalation of events.

Even from the demo one can surmise that something sinister is at work when considering Clive’s crippling migraines and the mysterious robed man. From there the story reveals the underground Fallen ruins, the incomplete mural, and then Ultima in earnest. So there are hints. I feel that XVI is par for the course with RPGs in general. Generally speaking they start grounded, but become apocalyptic by the end.

To be precise, my issue with the last third of the game is how repetitive the script becomes. Ultima and Barnabas exchange ideologies with Clive so many times. And it’s not like they reveal anything new to each other, it’s just the same talking points over and over. I really wish Barnabas was more interesting to alleviate this. Compared to the other side villains like Kupka and Anabella, he’s easily the least engaging.

Thinking about everything I wrote, I realize I sound very harsh towards XVI. Rest assured I still plan on getting the platinum trophy. There are aspects I like!

Yeah, regarding XVI not straying away from its core theme, I see it like in FFVII where initially it was just about saving the planet from a human corporation to saving the planet from a Meteor casted by a super-human serving his alien mother. Basically the same theme, it's just the stakes that are higher.

Even then, XVI kept hammering down the Bearer's plight up until the final sidequests (eg. Dorya's questline, Dalimil's and Northreach's conclusion arc).

------

About Ultima, actually read a lore entry implying there was one awake since the beginning, while the others slept. So I don't know if the one we mostly see during the game is that one or another Ultima freed from their crystal sleep, or if there were multiple working in tandem. We know Joshua managed to seal at least one of them.

------

Regarding your point about Barnabas not "breaking" Clive enough, I agree that that was a bit weird. I do remember either him or Ultima mentioning that trying to undo the bonds of consciousness had in the end the opposite effect, only strenghtening Clive's resolve, but I would need to check on that.

-----

Agree with Clive needing another internal conflict during the second half, even if I liked him the most personality-wise during that part of the game. Maybe something tied to Rosaria.
 
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Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
Joshua distances himself from Clive for about two thirds of the game. At first this seemed reasonable, I thought Joshua was doing it to prevent another Phoenix vs Ifrit fight. That theory seemed doubly true after Joshua sealed Ultima within himself, who desires Clive’s body (don’t we all). But then, in the downfall of Twinside, Joshua and Clive just… meet up. And there’s no issue to speak of. They even continue to adventure together from that point on. This begs the question, “Why was Joshua so elusive?”

For 13 years Clive was bound to the Sanbreque army, tasked with doing the nation's wet work and treated as less than human. Why didn’t Joshua make a move to rescue him? It’s later revealed that Joshua leads the Undying, a shadow organization with influence across Valisthea, so it’s not like he lacks the resources to reach out or even hide Clive if needed. It’s an incredible risk to leave his brother drifting from one battlefield to the next, especially with the lack of regard Sanbreque has for its bearers.
Well turns out your point is touched upon in the game in a missable dialogue.:monster:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/14r6f72/_/jqyyc17
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
LMAO I caught it the first time doing all the sidequests. Quite a bit of important setting and storyline information lies within the sidequests so those who skip them can miss out.

Would have been nice to have that stated in the main story.
 
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cold_spirit

he/him
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Alex T
Well turns out your point is touched upon in the game in a missable dialogue.:monster:

Cool cool. That explanation covers the 13 years from the Phoenix Gate incident to Clive's mutiny from the imperial army, but we still lack an explanation for the 5 years from Drake's Head to Twinside.

At Drake's Head, Joshua is within feet of Clive. Seeing as Dominants can conveniently sense each other's aether, Joshua should be able to observe that Clive has accepted the truth and gained control of Ifrit. If not, he could at least send an Undying member to track Clive and observe that he actually channels his Eikon's power now, again implying that Clive has control. Ultima is no longer able to make Ifrit go berserk. But Joshua is distant anyway.

There's no reason for Joshua to not send a letter:

"Hey Clive, yes I'm alive. The feather I left in your hand should serve as proof of that. I was saved by a shadow organization called the Undying, which I continue to lead. Wear this patch, it will allow you access to our archives in Tabor. We are investigating ways to defeat Ultima. I hear you have a pretty good scholar on your side. Let's pool our resources together and get to the bottom of this. However, there's still much we don't know about Ifrit, so it may be best to remain distant for now. Perhaps through contact experiments we'll discover that we can be physically close to each other again. May the flames guide us yadda yadda yadda."

That's all it would've taken. Why remain so elusive and obtuse for 5 years? Considering how central Clive and Joshua's relationship is to the story, I expected the writing around it to be airtight. However, just like with Joshua wearing the same robes as the "second Eikon of fire", their distance from each other only serves to inject fake drama into the story. I feel it's still contrived overall.
 
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Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield

Great analysis, made me understand Ultima a bit better.

Basically, rebuilding his paradise and race was his fantasy, Clive representing the harsh reality of pain, anguish and suffering. You can tell the XIV influence there.

Ultima wants a perfect world free from the Blight, without imperfect humans around, and bring the dead back to life. Clive accepts the present state of the world, the good and the bad, and he's willing to survive through hardship and suffering (instead of denying them)... it's the horizon always out of reach that keeps humanity moving.

As stated in the video, If you put their names together, you have Ultima Mythos = End of Myth or the Last Myth...

which ties to the name of the franchise, going by how XIII, XV and XVI ends with magic, summons and gods vanishing from their worlds... literally the FINAL fantasies of their respective universes. :monster:

Edit: Also, one of Ultima's thralls is called Necrophobe = Fear of death.
 
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Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
The ending is somewhat open to interpretation re: survival of characters, I haven't solidified my headcanon for Clive and Joshua yet. For Dion, I choose to believe he survived (I didn't see a body!), reunited with Terence and they both adopted the potion girl and live happily ever after.

Re: Clive...I feel like he has to have survived too, the book title being a reference to that one part where he was all like "You know Ultima, we really are the Final Fantasy Sixteen" :flipmonster:
Joshua was pretty dead but then idk something something Ultima Raise magic+Phoenix? Why was Joshua credited as the author? Did Clive just want to honor his brother? Or did Joshua actually write the book? Maybe Clive dictated it to him because Clive's writing hand was petrified :flipmonster:
idk, just rambling

That Joshua death scene though, shit was raw
shoutout to Ben Starr, I think he did a great job
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
This should NOT have been missable dialogue, this should have been in the main story with big flashing sirens all around it tbh
Just to note: Basically every single NPC in the game has unique and often VERY story-relevant dialogue after completing their quest that you never encounter because the "quest completion" mechanic forcibly resets Clive's PoV to face away from the person you interacted with when it gives the player control again after the cutscene rather than just returning to the PoV you had when approaching them. Those two things differentiate whether the "closing dialogue should be given to the NPC or if it should be wrapped into the cutscene, and they're using the wrong design workflows.

So, every time you complete ANY quest, if you want to actually understand the most about the game that you can, you're forced to turn yourself around and run back to the NPC and talk to them, because otherwise that dialogue for that event will usually be gone the next time you speak to them if any other game-update flags have come into play. I made a point about attempting to forcibly speak with every NPC I could encounter exhaustively in all the towns after event changes as well as always returning to NPCs as soon as quests are initiated as well as when they're completed – and the amount of missable key dialogue in this game is absolutely absurd. There are also times where there are the half-voiced text dialogue options that get revealed when characters have a side quest for you, which come up with Jote & Byron later on in the game, and that also make up most of the unfinished back-and-forth interactions of the final side quests.

But suffice to say that the implementation of dialogue in the game is one of MANY things that suffers extensively from terribly mismatched game design undercutting massive parts of the story. Add that in to how the side quests that became a part of the main quest totally falls apart halfway through (with some main quests using side quest icons in the missives), and you're looking at the result of that team being stuck rushing things into Minimum Viable Product completion – which is basically just making sure that those things exist at all, and it doesn't matter that they're terribly implemented. When you pair that with the World Design team having things so immaculately detailed that there are even unique paths that the rats in abandoned buildings scurry around into, or how following the little desert lizards will bring you to various item locations for things like crystals over dunes (which don't matter because the items in them are worthless rather than noteworthy since the RPG elements are all gutted), that sort of helps to show where the amount of polish between various teams working on FFXVI were nowhere NEAR equivalent and why I've been getting into all that tl;dr elsewhere.

The ending is somewhat open to interpretation re: survival of characters, I haven't solidified my headcanon for Clive and Joshua yet. For Dion, I choose to believe he survived (I didn't see a body!), reunited with Terence and they both adopted the potion girl and live happily ever after.
Of note since I've been replaying the final section in an attempt to perfect that boss fight, and that final section of the game in Origin is EXTREMELY gutted of content – Joshua silently confirms to Clive that Dion didn't make it when Clive wakes up, and it's been established before that the Dominants can all feel if each other are still alive or not (like how they knew Jill was still alive when she was captured by King Barnabas. Also, all of Twinsides where Khiel (the Medicine Girl) lived in the slums, and where Dion sent Terence got obliterated when Origin rose out from the ground, which has a lot to do with his resolution of having no regrets about going to die, but again – lots of stuff gets gutted from the second half of the game.

Also, the reason they can feel each other is because the Mothercrystals that link to those Eikons are all an Ultima that are a part of a single being (hence Ultima ripping open his chest, and them rising up out of the pool of his dark blood to form into a Sephirot configuration in order to have him take form as Ultimalius). There's a lot more overt layers to how that's established in the Mother-Child & nondual symbolism that gets emphasized with Barnabas and the Sins of Dzemekys that helps to establish a mechanic for why the Dominants are all interconnected like that, but again that's really fragmented, and the Ultima-specific bits are that's the most topically relevant part vis-a-vis the ending of the game. I'd also suggest that that's why Jill's reaction to Metia fading away next to the moon also says whether or not Clive survives (not to mention who authors the book in the aftercredit).



X :neo:
 

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield

Must-see

Specially liked the explanation for Ifrit Risen.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Another bit of Ifrit Risen's symbolism with Ifrit having the same form as the Infernal Eikons used by the Ultima collective seems to be intentionally in reference to "Angel Satan" which is a Biblical term used to refer the union between Lilith (Adam's first wife) and Samael (the Angel of Death) who play a big part in the role of the iconography of opposition of God during Revelation. A lot of King Barnabas' role is very much representative of the Christian Rapture and the creation of the Kingdom of Heaven, which Japanese adaptations of fantasy (most notably in BERSERK) put a lot of emphasis into showing how from the opposite side of those that it's "saving" that just looks identical to genocide and giving up your free will forever to mindlessly follow God into paradise means to sacrifice the one thing that separates Humans from Angels – Free Will. Especially when it comes to representing the core beliefs of Satanism around the necessity to exercise one's own will even when it is in opposition to that of God, those are really critical depictions to how those get linked into the core division in Hinduism & Buddhism.

This links together with the themes from Hinduism with Indra as the ruler of the Devas and the King of Heaven being pitted into war against the Asuras who were deceived and cast into a life of suffering outside of heaven, similar to what happened with the Bearers who used to occupy a position of power before being Branded. It is through that suffering that Humans are able to experience self-actualization and understanding one another rather than focusing only on their own desires. Indra always fears that this will lead a truly benevolent human to rise above him and take his throne and so he sabotages their efforts and denies their will, since as the King of Heaven there is no being who is more wholly devoted to a life of pleasure than he is. This is functionally a glass ceiling on Indra holding the highest power in as the ruler of Heaven while also being trapped from ever experiencing full enlightenment that is a critical commentary on the flaw of a "Kingdom of Heaven" that the Biblical revelation and Arthurian Fantasy both bring about, emphasizing that Eternal Empires codify suffering eternally and offer no path to true salvation.

This is because at it's core the conflict conflates Good vs. Evil and the paradox of Tolerance. The Golden Rule & Paradox of Tolerance show that it is only possible to retain peace so long as Intolerance is never tolerated. This means that any side claiming to be Good rejects the opposition absolutely, but this also means that there is no expression of free will or room for flaws, but also one's personal desires and the duties of one's position as a ruler are two separate things. In the Deva-Asura conflict, King Asura eventually gets his revenge in the war and defeats Indra, taking over Heaven. By tradition, he grants the wish of anyone who asks for something afterwards in order to help alleviate the injustices of the previous kindgdom. Despite being warned that Brahman is going to deceive him and give the Devas back control of Heaven, when he takes the form of a small dwarf asks for 3 steps of land, King Asura does not deny his request, and the dwarf transforms into a giant stepping over all of heaven and gives it back to Indra. That selfless acts grants King Asura Brahmin's protection against any further wrath or retribution from the Devas, and also raises him to the level of enlightenment that Indra can never reach.

This is why multiple narratives also depict a different version where King Asura is instead forever banished to the deepest hell and guarded by Brahmin instead to ensure that his forces can and will never be able to seize control of the heaven and cause chaos and destruction against everyone below. This narrative change is when it's being emphasized that rule under King Asura would be unable to escape the Asura's history persecution and that kingdom would be doomed to become the same tyranny as the Devas inflicted upon them, but merely pointed in the opposite direction, the way that is shown in Chrono Cross in the "Return of the Downtrodden" ending as a representation of the Dragonic forces winning. This is important to how FFXVI ties those themes into the Aether & Bearers, especially in how the Executors were erasing the previous history of that with the intent of preventing that grudge from ever re-emerging in the future.

Japanese media utilizes the Indra-Asura struggle to represent the necessity in tearing down an established order of inequality and oppression, while also showing that the individual who destroys that system CANNOT by the one to rule over it, unlike in Arthurian fiction which pulls from Christian mythology in the eradication of the old and supplanting a Kingdom of Heaven. You get this emphasized especially back in Hayao Miyazaki's ending to his manga version of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind in the dichotomy between the fates of Nausicaä left as a ruler & saviour that she never wanted to be Vs. that of Princess Kushana who is the rightful heir who realizes that the only form of justice that won't reignite the division of historical persecution between her now-united people is to intentionally never take the throne herself. This ending was different from what he originally envisioned and how the film's story seems to present those themes, largely shaped by real world events of a long-fought peace rapidly devolve back into bloody civil war. His manga along with Evangelion also helped to set up the color association with Indra as blue & Asura as red.

The eyes & blood of the Akashic in FFXVI, the blood of the Angels in Evangelion, and the blood of the Ohmu in Nausicaä, and Griffith's motif in BERSERK are all blue. It's a representation of a melancholic sadness of a saviour who is forced into a position where they have to kill those on the other side who often include those they care for. It is dampening emotionally-driven connections to one another, and you can see the same character traits with Yasha in Asura's Wrath, Angeal in Crisis Core, and a number of others. It's also why the primary color scheme of Ultima is always in hues of blue in FFXVI as he's the one representing this Indra-like foil.

In contrast to that are the paths of those who are wronged by that system of rule, where the red of their blood shines in their eyes in the form of anger & rage. It is this righteous indignation that gives them the power to tear down that almighty ruler but it is that same desire to overcome the ultimate figure that their emotions have been traumatically shaped in opposition towards that clouds their vision to make them an inappropriate replacement as a ruler. That's used for Clive in FFXVI, Guts in BERSERK, Genesis in Crisis Core, Asura in Asura's Wrath, and the eyes of the Ohmu in Nausicaä. This is also why, as time went on, there have been intentional nuance to the portayal of those details like in Naruto with Sasuke having the Indra motif unfit to be Hokage as he cries tears of blood unable to see past that trauma, whereas Naruto has the red Asura themes often overtaken by that burning force, but always crying clear tears from his blue eyes and he's the one whose unwavering dedication to never allowing the pain he felt to reemerge and to embrace even that dark side of himself being why his desire to become Hokage is benevolent and just rather than selfish and flawed – even if the world it results in is imperfect, it is one where everyone are equals and the lives of the children are important rather than means to an end.

FFXVI specifically also layers in Light & Dark into those opposing color motifs in how those passions or detachments can be lensed in different capacities and how those manifest in necessary reflections for the main Asura character of Clive to be supported by those themes, and the interconnection of how those layer together.
  • – Ultima's design is primarily Blue & Black (especially in Necron) as his represents the oppressive system where the population of Humanity over which he rules are simply a means to an end and tools at his disposal.
  • – Clive's outfit & color theme are overtly Red & Black as his theme revolves around the rage and passion focused on his inner darkness in order to facilitate an outcome that brings about an eventual justice even if it takes generations.
  • – Joshua's outfit & color thenes are Red & White as he is the foil to Clive's desire to carry all of the burden of the pain, sins, and darkness of the others, so that they can't damage those he loves, and showing that there is an inherent necessity not to let go of your attachments to others and allow them to remain to assist you to give you the exact power that Ultima (or the Christian God) never has in operating only ever with one singular ultimate will.
  • – Jill's Blue & White shows how her emotional disassociation from her own power came about as a result of how it was used, which is why it's also the foil of the element of Shiva's Ice to Ifrit's Fire (which is also a theme between the two lovers in FFXV). It's her ability to let go of Clive and trust him to use that power in the way that it needs to be used, rather than cling to her need for control given the trauma that she went through of others being in command of how her power was used.
  • – King Barnabas's Darkness is overtly the elements of the Saviour when viewed from the outside. There are several fragmented pieces of that in the Lore & Mikkelburg side quest where the Children of Dzemekys and Circle of Malius don't view going Akashic as anything other than salvation, whereas from anyone who doesn't embrace that view (like a belief in the Christian God), the Saviour of those people is nothing more than a genocidal dictator wiping out anything that doesn't confirm to the rule of the god Ultima to whom they devote themselves completely, and Odin is disassociated from that connection entirely which allows him to not suffer the wills of his own people being erased.
  • – Prince Dion's Light is the foil to that where he is singularly devoted only to the Empire as a tool that serves the people, not the other way around, and it's his inability to handle the suffering of losing those connections that breaks him and causes the destruction of Twinsides as Bahamut and is why he sees his duty as atonement that comes at the cost of his own life to allow Clive to save the world. He is the absolute opposite to Odin, and there's a balance between both that all rulers must manage in order to be just because there is no singular correct answer.

This brings to one of the larger themes that's continued to grow more nuanced over time in how Japanese adaptations of Western fantasy have a conclusive revelation that is different from the Christian-derived one in Tolkien & Arthurian fiction's "Victory over Darkness" ending. Instead of the destruction of evil being the establishment of the Return of the King presiding over a kingdom of good, it is the removal of BOTH corrupt systems like FFXVI's fall of the Imperialists & Royalists over both Storm & Ash respectively. It is leaving things in a state of being near-blank-slate, much like how the end of Princess Mononoke (which was the first thing Miyazaki wrote directly after finishing the manga of Nausicaä) has the death of the Forest Spirit, the destruction of Iron Town, as well as preventing the Japanese Emperor from attaining immortality. The same theme is also largely present in the end of Final Fantasy VII where it's neither Holy nor Meteor that achieves the end result and combining them together only makes things even worse, but it's eschewing that system altogether and allowing both to fall by following the Lifestream that's what brings about the ending. However, even that's had to evolve in Remake as following a pre-designated destiny of the original story is no different than succumbing to the injustices of ruling God, where the characters and their suffering are nothing but necessary predetermined means to an end, and they have no free will (and is why I've been writing and researching about this for the last several years, and am not going to be fully finishing that analysis until the Remake project wraps up).

Similarly, we can see how this meticulously crafted lack of definitive answer in FFXVI frees Valasthea from magic where Aether is no longer collected into the Mothercrystals and used for the purpose of bringing about a lost kingdom of the past, but rather what is left behind is a world where people command only their own power to bring about a world where there is equality for everyone regardless of ability. It shows us a small glimpse of a world where children grow up into that with the story itself as nothing but structural mythology to understand that, and how it's possible to see those things as a "Final Fantasy" to help everyone slowly go about realizing that vision in the real world that you & I all live in.

This is ultimately why these stories' Asura protagonist utilizes intentional symbolism that's an inversion of the Holy Saviour whilst taking the role of the saviour character. Asura's Wrath is particularly poignant about this given how it's more closely about the mythology directly from Hinduism & Buddhism and rejecting that there should be gods who rule over the lives of humans, making the Asura character into a sort of deity of Atheism, where he defeats the Creator God, Chakravartin only to refuse to take their place. The act of victory typically results in their death (though not always), but always their removal from filling the role of Saviour as it is a shadow that they have to form themselves into to take it from the one who is in power because it is the "Intolerance of Intolerance" and the paradoxical necessity to restore a world free of persecution. This is why that ambiguity is intentional as it's a reflection of whether or not there's a way for someone who has held that type of power to ever be able to live at peace in the world after or fully depart from the shape of what that experience formed them into – which has to do with how you view escaping the cycle of suffering in Samsara. Since the world that they bring about often still has generations of struggle during the period where it's still recovering, that can look like it's not the escape from Samsara that death and being at peace would be. This is why Asura's Wrath has him die, but has all of them reincarnated into a modern world after 870 MILLION years, as those are time scales that cyclical systems of Buddhism address that are very different from a perspective of the near-apocalyptic Revelation in Christianity. That's important because of Japanese history.

The Sengoku period of Japan and more than half a millennium of the horrors of the unhealing psychological trauma that results from that are a core part of magical mysticism in Japanese fiction that are tied to and amplified again with pains around the end of WWII, where Imperial Japan fell, but just as the American occupation looked to replace that, it really just put something else in its place full of its own reflective flaws. This means that there is particular attention paid to the psychological state of the characters in the role of Asura in Japanese storytelling throughout a VERY long history leading into Final Fantasy. The stories in Ashura Noh are of Samurai trapped and suffering in the Asura realm were explicity about the non-physical but the psychological strife of the Samurai who were in Civil War and unable to return to a life of peace. They achieve salvation in the moment of their death separating them from a world in which the conflict that created the force that drives them is finally left behind. It's why characters like Radahn in Elden Ring are on the verge of total madness and holding on to the last shred of their humanity, and where the only justice is for them to be given the death of a true warrior, and lay them to rest while they still have the honor of who they were as a human and they had control of their free will, before they can fall to that trauma and who they were becomes nothing but a beast or monster. It is to lay them to rest by ensuring that they achieving an end that befits who they were in life, and gives the chance at a future to those they love even while they cannot join into that world.

There is an acute awareness that there are degrees of PTSD where the only peace is knowing that you'll never lose control of yourself and harm those closest to you. In FFXVI, the Eikons are that inner power that the Dominants wield that triggers as the "other self" that they have to manage and you even see those neuron connections setting off to trigger both Self-Priming & Priming, and like with Dion & Bahamut or Ifrit at Phoenix Gate, those can rage out of control and will explicitly harm EXACTLY AND ONLY those people who you would normally protect – leaving you with an irreconcilable scar on the ideal you treasure most. (Psychologically this is because the berserk state in PTSD is an extension of the suffering of moral injury which is a betrayal of what's right by someone in legitimate authority, which means that the rage gets directed outwards in an inversion against people who are the closest and most trusted to that person. This is why a lot of veterans with PTSD can end up isolating themselves from being close to family & friends because they recognize that they are a legitimate danger to them when they lose a grip on themselves). In FFXVI this catalyzing moral injury is Clive's mother betraying them to kill their father and give Rosaria to the Empire, where Joshua incinerates the people around him because Clive isn't there to keep him safe, and then Clive murders the very brother he's sworn to protect immediately afterwards. Like with the scar of hatred left behind on Prince Ashitaka's arm at the end of Princess Mononoke, some of those traumatic wounds can and will never fully heal. Whether or not there is an ability to be at peace with that or if the toll comes at the cost of their own life is EXTREMELY contextual to who the character is and what they went through – as we see in FFXVI with Dion willingly committing to take Clive & Joshua to origin at the cost of his own life being a price he's accepted and willing to pay, because as the heir to the Empire, he understands what that world will mean for his people and that it supercedes his own individual desires.

Most overtly this is why the Mothercrystals and their Eikons are a key elements in the game, and they're also a refection of the Goddess Greagor & the Dragon, which itself is a symbolic representation of the world of Valasthea & the magic of the Aether. When children are conceived they are LITERALLY an extension of their mother and while infants they don't even recognize themselves individually from their mother, and this is what forms the psychological basis of your brain's trust, survival response, and bonding mechanisms. This is why that's also a critical representation of the existential examination of the concepts of free will. When the Ultima Collective arrived on Origin, there were 16 of them, but they're all one will. 8 Became the Mothercrystals and seemingly the other 8 were the Eikons. While most of the Mothercrystals were named after the parts of that Dragon, the one destroyed by Ultima was named Dzemekys which seems to be how the game establishes the "main" Ultima who is organizing things especially as he is the one King Barnabas follows who takes the form of his own mother. She was a Child of Dzemekys, and Barnabas has a scar over his heart showing that severance and why as Odin he cuts others off from that, but still yearns for being connected to her, which is how Ultima soothes him by being the people he wants and he never feels that loss of severance. This is in a direct foil to Dion Lesage's relationship with his father the Emperor and the Clive's mother as his own step mother, where their son is also nothing but a puppet shell of Ultima – who is only wanting to cast a spell of Revive the world that existed before, but only to save the Ultima collective, not to save Humanity.

While parents create children to grow beyond them, this inversion is where parental authority is the power of creation to be wholly self-serving and treat one's creations as means to an end with no free will of their own because they ARE merely an extension of their creator. In FFXVI it's stated that free will is only formed in the moments where the creator isn't there to explicitly guide them when Ultima, like the Christian God, rested after creation. While a true parent cannot reject their children's autonomy, the creator & creation with no free will is the relationship that the Christian God has to the Angels. This inversion is also how the Alien series depicts the Xenomorphs creating an inversion of life by parasitically growing in and feeding on their hosts to create something neither natural nor artificial which is why the H.R. Giger-like biomechanical designs have remained such a popular expression of those themes, but especially in BERSERK where the servants of the God Hand bringing about the new Kingdom ruled by the Saviour are an overlap of Giger & Angelic forms, and also why all of those are overtly present in the design of Ultima's body.

It's why Joshua & Clive point out the blatantly hypocritical perspective that Ultima has in rejecting the humans attempting to save themselves, because that's a perspective that Christian fiction about the slow twilight of the Gods coming under the rule of King Arthur, or the fall of Sauron and rise of Aragorn don't have the same level of critical perspective, as they are about a linear END not about the breaking free of a cycle. This is why it's also important that Empress Emeritus Annabella was consumed by that same selfish devotion to make a perfect child in her own image that was exactly what she wanted it to be and nothing else, and those human narcissistic traits were clearly laid out when Clive confronted her in Twinsides. Even moreso, after her child Olivier, a puppet shell being used by Ultima, was killed – she fundamentally rejected the collapse of the world she crafted where she didn't have a perfect child to bring about her vision. Even when Joshua offered her a path out, she refused anything where she wasn't in control, rejected the collapse of her world, and clung to that absolute control to the point of taking her own life rather than submit. Her intolerance was a weapon that was merely reflected upon itself, it was not a trait that was in any way passed on to her sons, but rather it was only the tolerance of others from their father that guided them DESPITE that existential pain & trauma.

Learning how to overcome the trauma of losing the connection to one's parents as the will that created you, and be able to take on their will as your own BY CHOICE is the key element in how Joshua & Clive both try to bring about the world that their father desired RATHER than trying to oppose the one that their mother was attempting to create. While both were in opposition to the world that she envisioned, that's because they oppose that it follows the same path as what Ultima needs to achieve those ends. They don't bear her love nor malice, but they are necessarily intolerant of adapting her intolerant views & behaviour. This is why their emotions exist only in connection to who their father was and what he wanted to achieve in a world that treated men as equal, just like what Cid desired when Clive took on his name. There is a marked difference in the motive and ability to exercise one's one free will in achieving those ends in the legacy of one's predecessors where that legacy is a mantle that you wear IN ADDITION to who you are that is critical to how the story builds into its conclusion with the protagonist as Clive, and him passing that role of Cid on to Gav to oversee the literal birth of the new generation of a bearer whose lives are their own.

This gets made more apparent in FFXVI with the ways in which it manifests in how Clive learns about his own trauma initially. Benedikta is a victim of horrible mistreatment and despite her preexisting relationship with Cid, she feels his desertion as Lord Commander was a betrayal and is incapable of forgiving. This is why no matter now much Cid is constantly trying to save her from Barnabas' lies as the king is only interested in using her for her Eikon, he genuinely loves her but cannot find a way to force her to join him that isn't just being exactly as manipulative as Odin is. The conflict wears him down because he won't ever kill her and he HAS to allow her to have what she chooses, even if he KNOWS it isn't what she actually wants. He's trying to find ways to help guide her to safety no matter what which is why he has Clive stand back when she tries to kill him, and always makes sure that she has to make her choice and he reacts to it.

Even after her Eikon was taken from her, that pain and being forcibly returned into a state of helplessness is an existence that she can no longer reconcile because of that exact trauma. So she brings back Garuda in an inconsolable rage drawing on defining herself AS that trauma which shatters her mind and leaves her hell bent on destroying the entire world because of how horrible & unjust it is – and she's not wring to feel that way. This is, at its core, no different from Clive's motivation as it's driven from hatred and the detachment of abandonment & betrayal. That's why after Ifrit kills her, Cid intervenes when he starts mutilating her body, and it isn't until Clive is helpless in a jail cell begging to die that Cid realizes he can save SOME of Clive in a way that he couldn't save Benedikta.

As the foil to that, Hugo loved Benedikta with all of his heart, but no matter how much devotion he pledged to her or how much power he had, she was never truly his, he wasn't able to keep her safe, and their dream of ruling the world as its Dominants would never come to be. That same hatred and rage is born of the exact same emotion as love, and it is singularly fueled into revenge which is why vengeance is a motive that needs to be disconnected from Clive as it would ruin him if he were to face Ultima for a reason that mirrored this, and Titan Lost shows that the trauma also represents the loss of their own will to that emotion rather than allowing that emotion to be controlled by their will. (From a more specific psychological perspective, this is the Amygdala's survival response to the body's sensory data creating an inhibition of the signals from the Prefrontal Cortex when controlling the body's actions as they have an inhibitory pathway to one another to regulate control in different circumstances). This is why trauma triggers will often come with hallucinations or triggers where their senses are forcing them to relive moments of their past of fears due to how their body reacts, and is why Titan Lost begins with him seeing Clive taking Benedikta from him at the Heart of the Mothercrystal.

This brings us to the one between both of them which is Cid. Cid gives his Eikon to Clive and dies even though Clive doesn't want that. This places it in a foil to when Jill will later trust Clive with Shiva. It's showing that you have to be willing to trust those who come after you to take your place and complete what you can't do on your own. It's why Joshua is always there to snap Clive out of the moments where Ultima is attempting to get Clive to release his own conscious control over himself by severing his connections to others, and why Ifrit Risen is the representation of that as an inseparable bond between the two of them. Clive even says that the world he sets in motion will stumble and likely take generations to come to peace, and unlike Ultima he intentionally isn't there to guid it into place, but also his mere presence there will inevitably draw the attention of the people to see him as their saviour and expect that of him. Dion understands that as the Imperial Prince, which is a large part of why his own story ends in his death (as Joshua & Clive would have been able to sense if he survived). It's why Clive's death seems to be an accepted but not overtly focused part of his ending, and also why Joshua as the Phoenix is the author of the book "Final Fantasy" in the end – and the ending also shows the moment that Joshua appointed Clive as his Shield. That is the defining relationship that triggered Clive to reject his dark self initially and then accept it as a part of himself that needed to be under his own control. It was what gave him the role he needed to fulfil in order to find peace, which was to heal his brother even though Joshua willingly gave up his own life to allow his brother to overcome Ultima in a way he never could have done – because he wasn't Mythos. That's why the self-sacrifice of the Saviour figure in this portrayal of mythology also has the Logos intersection of the Christ-like martyr while COMPLETELY eschewing any ability for the public to be able to venerate that part of his character by making it an uncertain fate as that means he'll never be seen as the Returning King.

Ultimately, this is why the end of games like these come with the need to accept some form of irreversible tragedy and loss when it comes to existing in a world that's not able to have one side control those things. Like in Princess Mononoke, the Forest Spirit dies as does Iron Town, and something new needs to come about – however in that story, Prince Ashitaka is stopping everyone but there is no ultimate evil he has to destroy. He doesn't kill the Emperor, he merely heals the Night Walker who dies to the dawn, which ensures that is is that same passage of time would mean that with the arrival of a new era, the mortal emperor would also pass away and allow for a new world to exist. Ashitaka is a character who exists with that trauma and is able to use it to withstand damage from that without fear or hatred, but he never gets placed into a position where he must use that intolerance as a tool to oppose another ultimate expression of that power in an inversion to his own. FFXVI's story places its main character into that position as does other narratives like Asura's Wrath where those are more important, and change what fate is possible for the protagonist in that conflict.

Thematically, FFXVI has a love story where there is a DEEP desire for Clive to survive and have happiness with Jill... but the bigger picture of what Clive's survival would bring about just because of who he is is something that the game's side quests seem to have been working towards, but not to have shown completely. I've said it before, but the manga Fire Punch is the best look at why the "Fires of Destruction" Asura-type protagonist who gets circumstantially placed into the role of a hero who must also be able to be seen as a villain by those they oppose, is really important to understanding that the ambiguity of FFXVI is more specific than it appears to be, because of the values that Clive represents both as Mythos, as Cid, in establishing what his father wanted, as his brother's Shield, and as the man who loved Jill. This is just like the people of Ash or even Hugo/Titan are inherently not able to exist in the world that their actions help to bring about, because their very existence is not a representation of that changed world, but it is a traumatic expression that reflects what came before, and will shape things around it back into a form the trauma that they're attempting to leave behind (hence the Executor's approach to history as well as the Undying helping the worshippers becoming Akashic in Mikkelburg).

We see Clive's body turning to stone just like that of a normal bearer – which shows that he's no longer in that exceptional position, and we know he used the last of that power to heal Joshua. This is much like how in Asura's Wrath, Asura knows that killing Chakravartin will mean the end of the mana that allows him to be alive, and does it anyway because his daughter will live on. Whether or not Clive succumbs to that isn't overtly clear, but the theme music and Metia's light fading beside the Moon as a key symbol of Jill & Clive, but also showing that they're both looking at it together from different places also matches how Clive promised her that they'd watch the moon together and asks if she can see it as he's fading. It's a bittersweet ending, but there are just endless details of that where the narrative HAS to be extremely aware of how to portray that in a way that doesn't position Clive to be turned it into a glorification of something that is actually the total opposite of what the story is telling – something that I would say is more important for the "King Asura" type character than any other in all of mythology.

Those are a lot of nuances that, given VASTLY different foundations of religious & cultural background as well as a large difference in the culturally analytical Western vs. culturally holistic Eastern perspectives on storytelling, which means that those things that may not be as noticeable to most Western audiences in how the ending REALLY isn't as ambiguous as it seems for the fates of the cast. While it's specific, it's still a type of specificity where telling someone else the one and only possible interpretation of the story also is intentionally something it's not meant to do. The whole narrative is crafted to force you to explore how you internalize those ideas and understand the characters to help lead in the existential exploration & personal understanding to how those systems are able to resolve themselves in any individual's mind. That's why there are lots of details where HOW they're shown being explicitly specific in ways that are typically are how more Western storytelling provides something that's meant to be openly-ended.

The key difference is that it's not an open ended story so that one day it's possible that Clive becomes the new dictator because he eventually succumbed to the trauma in the future, because he's the player. These are stories where the ambiguity is provided within understanding the framework of Clive NEEDING to be the heroic individual, and how understanding the concessions that that means for the ending are a part of learning how to accept things for oneself – and there IS no singular answer to that for the people playing as that character.

At any rate, hopefully that's some enjoyably introspective tl;dr on this form of storytelling and some cool design details to look at & consider.




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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X

Wtf, this is fucking cool and should have been alluded in-game somewhere.

Fucking seriously. That would have made the confrontation against Typhon INFINITELY more interesting, because at that point in the game it's not clear why he isn't just another Eikon (especially since he shares his name with an existing Final Fantasy Summon). It's still frustrating to look back on this game and see JUST how much of the world-building and other CLEARLY well-designed content that had a lot of thought put into it gets absolutely kneecapped by the game itself having just a mess of a half-completed presentation.


X :neo:
 
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