trash panda
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Game of Thrones
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Lestat
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Tbh I think prophecies are pretty reliable within GOT.Oh, durrr.So regarding Maggy's prophecy about Cersei...
Okay, I know we're talking about a fictional universe, but I'm still going to get technical.
When it comes to GOT (or ASOIAF), the storyline is influenced by actual historical events (magic and dragons aside). Therefore, I like to think that prophecy is 100% subjective, open to interpretation, and guided to fruition by the influence of men (as opposed to divine intervention or inescapable fate). What I'm trying to say is that prophecies are poppycock, even in GOT. The characters in this story interpret information retrospectively and find ways to make current day events meet the criteria for the prophecies that exist in within their cultures.
Characters like Cersei (or even Dany) often allow or readily work towards the fulfillment of their own personal prophecies, even when the prospective outcome is tragic. Cersei's children didn't all have to die. She could have left King's Landing and took them back to Casterly Rock to live out their lives way back in season 1. She could have not blown up Tommen's wife, thereby prompting him to end his own life. Dany could have remained in Essos and carried on as a successful liberator and ruler and two of her dragons might not be dead now, but her vision in the House of the Undying dangled the Iron Throne under her nose.
I think Cersei's fourth pregnancy has opened her eyes to the fact that prophecies aren't set in stone and that you establish your own destiny. I think Cersei isn't going to let the remainder of Maggy's prophecy come to pass. Dany, on the other hand, I think she's going to die in pursuit of the prophecy that led her back to Westeros...?
in the case of Danny, she is told that she will experience three betrayals in her life and with this week's episode we see that Varus (possibly) tyrion are on that edge of betraying her.
That said the prophecies regarding her bearing children and khal drogo coming back to life may be a bit up for interpretation. The prophecy states once she ends her journey her womb will quicken and he will return. It never specified drogo specifically will return but what if she names her child drogo or drogon gets injured to the point she thinks he is dead and he turns out to be a she and is pregnant. In the last moments of death drogon could create new dragon eggs which would sustain magic in the world.
As for cersei, she is her own self fulfilling prophecy, she was warned what would happen and as a consequence forced the events to happen like you mentioned. All her children's deaths are because of her own actions and the newest baby may not be included in the prophecy because it's never gonna be born. I reckon she won't survive the next episode and will die with Jaimie (or at the hands of Jaimie) which in turn means her child is never born and the prophecy remains fulfilled.
That said the prophecies regarding her bearing children and khal drogo coming back to life may be a bit up for interpretation. The prophecy states once she ends her journey her womb will quicken and he will return. It never specified drogo specifically will return but what if she names her child drogo or drogon gets injured to the point she thinks he is dead and he turns out to be a she and is pregnant. In the last moments of death drogon could create new dragon eggs which would sustain magic in the world.
As for cersei, she is her own self fulfilling prophecy, she was warned what would happen and as a consequence forced the events to happen like you mentioned. All her children's deaths are because of her own actions and the newest baby may not be included in the prophecy because it's never gonna be born. I reckon she won't survive the next episode and will die with Jaimie (or at the hands of Jaimie) which in turn means her child is never born and the prophecy remains fulfilled.
trash panda
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To be fair, someone in Dany's position will likely experience numerous betrayals in her life. And, what constitutes betrayal is at least a little bit subjective. Dany seems to think it's her destiny to sit on the iron throne and that anyone who says or does anything to stand in her way is betraying her self-imposed authority on the matter. She could look at the events of her life in retrospect and draw any number of conclusions as to who betrayed her in a way that meets the criteria outlined in the betrayal prophecy. She has many options. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think Dany's vision in the House of the Undying definitely foreshadows events that will come to pass. Dany actively pursued this prophecy and she's fleshing out all the details herself. In the vision, by the time she reaches the throne room, it's in shambles. When she is mere inches away from touching the throne, she becomes distracted by her dragons' cries. At that point, she leaves the throne room and is reunited with Drogo and their son.
I think this foreshadows the very likely outcome that Dany will finally reach the destination she's been pursuing all these years, only...she's going to find it in ruins, (probably her own doing). I also think, as the HOTU vision prophecized, she's going to be reunited with Drogo and her son (in death) before she ever lays a finger on the iron throne. That's my guess as to how her story ends, anyway.
I still think if prophecies are reliable for storyline purposes, it's because characters pursue them even though they really, really don't have to. I wish Dany would wake up and be like "Westeros isn't that great" and then go back to being a badass Queen in Essos.
I think Dany's vision in the House of the Undying definitely foreshadows events that will come to pass. Dany actively pursued this prophecy and she's fleshing out all the details herself. In the vision, by the time she reaches the throne room, it's in shambles. When she is mere inches away from touching the throne, she becomes distracted by her dragons' cries. At that point, she leaves the throne room and is reunited with Drogo and their son.
I think this foreshadows the very likely outcome that Dany will finally reach the destination she's been pursuing all these years, only...she's going to find it in ruins, (probably her own doing). I also think, as the HOTU vision prophecized, she's going to be reunited with Drogo and her son (in death) before she ever lays a finger on the iron throne. That's my guess as to how her story ends, anyway.
I still think if prophecies are reliable for storyline purposes, it's because characters pursue them even though they really, really don't have to. I wish Dany would wake up and be like "Westeros isn't that great" and then go back to being a badass Queen in Essos.
Lestat
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I'm in agreement about Danny tbh, at this point I don't see it credible she will be the one to sit on the throne. It's just a matter of who's gonna be the one to kill her.
I've got several ideas about this tbh but they all revolve around Danny basically becoming her father and seeing enemies all around.
Theory 1
Jaimie arrives after cersei has been killed and truly cements his kingslayer title.
Theory 2
Jon kills her to save the people/his family cementing his claim to the throne as the protector of the realms.
Theory 3
Danny inadvertently causes her own death somehow either by sacrificing herself to save Jon or by just being nutter.
Looking forward to seeing how it pans out but not so happy with the rushed pacing this series is doing
I've got several ideas about this tbh but they all revolve around Danny basically becoming her father and seeing enemies all around.
Theory 1
Jaimie arrives after cersei has been killed and truly cements his kingslayer title.
Theory 2
Jon kills her to save the people/his family cementing his claim to the throne as the protector of the realms.
Theory 3
Danny inadvertently causes her own death somehow either by sacrificing herself to save Jon or by just being nutter.
Looking forward to seeing how it pans out but not so happy with the rushed pacing this series is doing
Gary Caelum
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The audience is really not happy with the writers' explanation for what happened in this episode.
"Danerys kind of forgot about the iron fleet." Lol people are not liking this dumbass explanation. This is probably the most downvotes any GoT video has ever had:
"Danerys kind of forgot about the iron fleet." Lol people are not liking this dumbass explanation. This is probably the most downvotes any GoT video has ever had:
trash panda
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I saw that explanation and was like...."that's not actually an explanation, that's just bad writing".
Drogon has already been wounded once by the Scorpion. Viserion was killed quite literally by the same means. So it should come as absolutely no surprise that Rhaegal was killed in this fashion. This one isn't even Dany's fault. It was just bad writing. Also, why was Ser Davos not with Dany's fleet? He is like the resident expert on seafaring and navy tactics. Makes no sense.
Gary Caelum
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This is an excellent video on how GoT changed once it departed from the books:
Gary Caelum
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Yeah I don't think we ever got a good explanation as to why they abandoned the 10-episode seasons. Seasons 7 and 8 haven't improved by being shorter, so what was the point?
Lestat
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My bet it's all about money.
I remember watching a video regarding Emilia Clarke and her negotiations of her contract throughout the series. As it stands each of the main cast bring in a staggering amount of money per episode with the female cast being paid the same as the males.
Now that the show runners are not having to include the detailed info from the books they have free reign to pack as much into each episode meaning less money to pay to each actor/actress as their pay is episode based.
Unfortunately what that means for fans is what originally would be three episodes of content is being forced into one episode now and you end up with the instant teleport effect and general rushed feeling against what was originally a really well paced show.
I remember watching a video regarding Emilia Clarke and her negotiations of her contract throughout the series. As it stands each of the main cast bring in a staggering amount of money per episode with the female cast being paid the same as the males.
Now that the show runners are not having to include the detailed info from the books they have free reign to pack as much into each episode meaning less money to pay to each actor/actress as their pay is episode based.
Unfortunately what that means for fans is what originally would be three episodes of content is being forced into one episode now and you end up with the instant teleport effect and general rushed feeling against what was originally a really well paced show.
Gary Caelum
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That would be kinda silly but it sounds possible.
Do they get paid even if they're not in an episode though? Cersei wasn't in episode 2 at all.
Do they get paid even if they're not in an episode though? Cersei wasn't in episode 2 at all.
Gary Caelum
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Well this may be the worst end to a well-loved TV show of all time.
What on earth were they playing at?
What on earth were they playing at?
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
In addition to the general badness of the most recent GoT episode, this is a very gpoy of yours truly
Gary Caelum
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I genuinely know someone who named their baby daughter Daenerys. Fucking LOL
Lord Noctis
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I quite liked the episode. It was a hell of a lot better than last weeks episode. I especially enjoyed Daenarys' stuff. I know some people were upset about that, but honestly the show has been building to this for a long time.
Also following Arya through the chaos was genuinely really effective.
I'm honestly surprised at how negative the reactions to this thing have been. There were problems sure (I mean, Euron's in the episode, so there was no way it was going to be a 10.), but man, I just dont think I saw the same episode as everyone else. I'm looking forward to the finale though.
Also following Arya through the chaos was genuinely really effective.
I'm honestly surprised at how negative the reactions to this thing have been. There were problems sure (I mean, Euron's in the episode, so there was no way it was going to be a 10.), but man, I just dont think I saw the same episode as everyone else. I'm looking forward to the finale though.
Gary Caelum
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Based on the youtube likes on the "Inside the Episode" thing, about 40% liked, 60% disliked, so some people do agree with you.
I'll avoid going into my thoughts because it will just be a relentless storm of anger and negativity. So I'll just list the things I actually really liked about this episode:
1) The Arya/Hound story arc had a really great ending.
I'll avoid going into my thoughts because it will just be a relentless storm of anger and negativity. So I'll just list the things I actually really liked about this episode:
1) The Arya/Hound story arc had a really great ending.
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trash panda
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Okay, so...even if Dany's character arc doesn't end with her being a totally cliché evil queen (although I don't see any other way it can go now)...who does she intend to rule after she killed all her subjects or lost them in war...?
Also, if Jon kills her, this is going to be the most stereotypical ending ever in the history of ever.
Also, if Jon kills her, this is going to be the most stereotypical ending ever in the history of ever.
Shademp
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All hail the Mad Queen Daenerys.
She lost too many people close to her in too short of a time. If Dany still had all her dragons/children and if Jorah was still alive she might not have succumbed to rage.
The question now, for me at least, is how Daenerys will die in the next episode. Will she go willingly? What will happen to her dragon? I hope that she can die with some shred of dignity before she goes to join Khal Drogo.
Hopefully, in the end, there won't be an Iron Throne to sit on.
She lost too many people close to her in too short of a time. If Dany still had all her dragons/children and if Jorah was still alive she might not have succumbed to rage.
The question now, for me at least, is how Daenerys will die in the next episode. Will she go willingly? What will happen to her dragon? I hope that she can die with some shred of dignity before she goes to join Khal Drogo.
Hopefully, in the end, there won't be an Iron Throne to sit on.
Lestat
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As far as episode go it wasn't that bad. Last week's episode was far worse IMO. Can't say anything happened that wasn't expected. Danny is turning into her dad and will very soon meet the same fate also paving the way for Jon to take the throne. That said I'm fairly certain now that Arya may be the one to kill Danny now.
The most enjoyable bit had to be clegane bowl though. Watching Sandore cut down the kingsguard like they were flies was highly enjoyable and I'm actually surprised that the maester stuck around till the end with cersei.
My guess for next episode though is that grey worm is gonna tell Danny that Jon tried to defy her orders and then the shit will start to hit the fan.
The most enjoyable bit had to be clegane bowl though. Watching Sandore cut down the kingsguard like they were flies was highly enjoyable and I'm actually surprised that the maester stuck around till the end with cersei.
My guess for next episode though is that grey worm is gonna tell Danny that Jon tried to defy her orders and then the shit will start to hit the fan.
Gary Caelum
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A genuinely cool twist would've been.....
if the white walkers real purpose was to protect the realms of men against potential catastrophes, and the entire reason they reawoke and headed south was because they knew what Daenerys was going to do.
The rationale for killing so many people in the north would be that they needed enough undead in their army to accomplish their task of stopping her. But they were never intending to just kill everyone.
The rationale for killing so many people in the north would be that they needed enough undead in their army to accomplish their task of stopping her. But they were never intending to just kill everyone.
Lestat
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I love the show, honestly it's one of my favourite TV shows of all time but I think it was a massive mistake by GRRM to give free reign over to the producers after they hit the books. He knows the ending and has said numerous times he knows how he plans to get there he just doesn't have the time (or effort) to get it on paper.
You can see where the producers tried to make the show their own after they finished the agreed upon story but the biggest problem is that they have essentially ruined all character progression and potential WTF moments by either showing too much or showing too little. I haven't been surprised by anything that's happened in the last two seasons and that's mostly due to bad writing/piss poor development.
Even when they did the series according to the books and I knew what was gonna happen they still managed to have moments where I was shocked by just how well they executed things. I just don't feel that now which kinda sucks.
You can see where the producers tried to make the show their own after they finished the agreed upon story but the biggest problem is that they have essentially ruined all character progression and potential WTF moments by either showing too much or showing too little. I haven't been surprised by anything that's happened in the last two seasons and that's mostly due to bad writing/piss poor development.
Even when they did the series according to the books and I knew what was gonna happen they still managed to have moments where I was shocked by just how well they executed things. I just don't feel that now which kinda sucks.
Gary Caelum
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I thought you said you liked this episode?
Lex
Administrator
I unequivocally loved that episode lmao this is so funny because I've been reading angry posts all day and thought I was going to hate it.
I really hope Cersei and Jaimie survived just so I can watch them be executed but I suppose there's only one episode left. Tbh although the "mad queen Daenerys" arc is mildly disappointing, I do not care that she laid waste to King's Landing. She sure broke that wheel! She tried not to be "queen of the ashes" but Cersei forced her hand. Olenna told her right: be a dragon. This is what she should have done at the very start. If she had, she'd still have two dragons and Cersei wouldn't have had the chance to put so many civilians in harm's way. My favourite moment was when she kept burning shit after the bells rung because I could honestly have seen Cersei still somehow winning if Daenerys had played nice. Those fucking King's Landing guards have turned for every goddamn ruler so it was satisfying to see them decimated aswell. Anybody else in the mood for BBQ now? lmaooooooooooooooo
The only thing I'm disappointed in is where I perceive it to be going, which is Dany trying to kill Jon or succeeding in killing one of the remaining Starks and forcing their hand against her. All this "look at the tragedy she has wrought! she must be brought down!!!!!!111oneone" like nah that's boring. She did the right thing. Burn it all down.
The only thing I'm disappointed in is where I perceive it to be going, which is Dany trying to kill Jon or succeeding in killing one of the remaining Starks and forcing their hand against her. All this "look at the tragedy she has wrought! she must be brought down!!!!!!111oneone" like nah that's boring. She did the right thing. Burn it all down.