Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[Cthulhu]

Cait Sith is just the most WTF character evar.

I mean if he's a robot remote-controlled by Reeve or whatever it was, why is he in AC too and looking like a non-robotic animated cat thing?

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Yeah he's a robot-within-a-robot, because even when you're not supposed to know the WHOLE thing is a robot, you're supposed to know the Cat is riding the Moogle, which is essentially a robot. Then you find out it's one robot machine in...two...parts?? I think alot of it is left strange because of parts they ultimately cut from the game but left the character shreds of, like the whole thing about Reeve being an "Inspire": A person with the ability to 'breathe life' into objects, magically. That's never mentioned or dealt with in-game, but here we are with this Shinra exec controlling Cait Sith the whole game.

I will say, I love the idea of Reeve being a part of the team "undercover", he's there for all these events but never in his true physical form...it's like being this 'character' allows him to be more himself. I dig that, but even for such a random idea, they really made it a clusterfuck.

Edit: And he was never supposed to LOOK like a robot, the characters are supposed to think Cait Sith is just some fortune-telling cat that wants to join them.

 

[Random Nobody]

Barret greeted Cid with a laugh. "Talk like that and God's gonna get on your case!
"God? You haul his ass down here," snapped Cid, not missing a beat. "I gotta have words with him.

GODDESS GODDESS GODDESS GODDESS GODDESS

Minerva

The Planet will eventually return to the source of all life in the universe

They mention fairly early on that the whole Promised Land thing is considered a legend, meaning most things regarding the Cetra, generally known as Ancients, is regarded as myth. Elmyra seems to first wonder about people going to a star in the sky before Aerith clarifies they return to the planet they're on when they die.

This is in reference to the bit where you first meet Elmyra, no? I just played through it (but sleep-deprived, so maybe I should do it again) and the impression I came away with was that Elmyra was speaking for herself. It seems like she took it as part of Aerith's apparent mental instability childhood eccentricity, because the way she phrases it led me to think that she disbelieved it in the same way she disbelieved that Aerith was hearing voices in the first place (particularly Ilfana's).

Then again, we're discussing this like we haven't spent years being victims of awkward translation.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Doesn't she say something along the lines of "I tried to tell myself she wasn't really hearing her mother, that she was just a child, but she...knew things" and then goes on to explain how she knew her husband had died, and so on. Elmyra tried her best to treat her and raise her as a normal child, but she knew she was special.

The "star in the sky" thing, comes when Aeris said she was no longer sad about her mother's death, because she had returned to the planet. "I asked her if she meant a star in the sky, but she said no, she meant this planet.

The whole "Lifestream" thing is essentially a modified Buddhism, part of why I loved this game, because it introduced me to Buddhist ideals years before I would discover Buddhism and essentially adopt it myself...

Edit: And the Compilation stuff? In my humble opinion, that's basically just bringing in new writers who had nothing to do with the OG and wanted to throw some juicy stuff in there, so trying to make it make sense with the OG stuff is just asking for a headache. I did think the "Goddess" bits (I unfortunately lost my PSP many years ago si it's been a while) were directly from the script of the "Loveless" play Genesis worshipped. Which, also in the OG, was not written in Shakespearean "olde english", but like a normal, modern play. Ugh.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well, except On the Way to a Smile and Crisis Core were written by Nojima (the writer of VII). Only Dirge had a different writer. The original game always implied to me that knowledge of the Lifestream was not ALL that widespread.

As for Loveless, you can see productions of Shakespeare plays done in modern English or in all kinds of different twists. It's not that weird there would be differently-styled productions. There's an old thread around here somewhere where a member linked one of the verses Genesis reads to the scene that Cid describes to Cloud in the original game. (Also, an email from Kunsel quotes the last line in regular English.)

 

[leadmyskeptic]

I did not know that Nojima wrote Crisis Core! It has such a jarring, radically different feel than the original (perhaps due to the rest of the writing team working on it?). That's what I was referring to when I said "Compilation", the games and film, not the Novellas, but even so. On the other notes, Lifestream knowledge as has been mentioned is definitely not supposed to be super common in FF7's world, that's for sure.

With Loveless, it just kinda irritated me that what in the original game sounded like a small-scale "personal drama" play (and one whose dialogue is referenced in FF8's "I'll be here...waiting..." opening), was modified in CC into this mythological olde English thing with prophecies and goddesses and...Gackt. I mean, of course we didn't know hardly anything about in the OG, just some posters and a few lines, but still. I guess I was probably really just off-put by the clusterfuck that was CC's plot in general. And the fact that they took what was this mysterious little in-world nod to one of my favorite albums of all time in the OG and made it a central part of CC and its ridiculousness, was just icing.

 

[Starling]

I think Cid and Barret talking about god in the novellas was the writer not thinking about real world terms not necessarily fitting into the fictional setting that's been established.

I recall the first mentions of the promised land being in the Shinra building, going on about how Shinra is trying to find it, even though it's considered a myth. Then, the party asks Aerith if she can explain what the deal with that is supposed to be. As for the goddess stuff in Crisis Core, who knows about Loveless but there's a statue of a goddess in Banora and Minerva clearly exists as some personification of the lifestream.

The neat thing about Minerva is that her design is strongly reminiscent of Valkyries, who served the purpose of gathering those who fall in battle to send them to Valhalla (or Folkvangr but most people don't seem to know about that). Minerva also happens to be a goddess of knowledge in Roman mythlogy, which ties into the lifestream containing the knowledge and memories of everyone in it rather nicely.

 

[55-]

Yo, this might be ironic, but I would hate it if they clarified things quicker/better. Something that really drew me to FFVII is that it raises questions faster than it answers them. It's constantly stacking up mysteries. When I played the game for the first time, even after I was done with it, I felt like I had this massive puzzle placed in front of me and I NEEDED to figure it out.

If it resorted to storytelling tropes like the character that doesn't understand anything and needs everything explained to them, I think that would be a step back. I really dislike when lore and exposition is crammed down your throat all at once. I think it's a virtue that the story slowly and naturally reveals itself. When the game starts out, you don't know anything, you don't know what SOLDIER is, you don't know what Avalanche is all about. I couldn't even pinpoint any moment where you learn these things, you just spend enough time in the world and it seeps into you.

If the game wasted time going "hey, just for clarification this is what the Cetra did, this is what the promised land is, this is how the lifestream works, this is what Avalanche is fighting, etc. okay we clear?" it would feel downright patronizing. For the most part, all of the pieces are there for you to put together on your own. And when they're not, sometimes there are things I think the game left purposefully vague, like what the promised land is.

I don't think I'd be spending time on a forum talking about something that wasn't vague, interpretive, and left tons of room for theorizing. I'd just finish it and be done with it.

Granted there are still things I'd like to hear more about, just for lore nerding's sake. Things that weren't purposefully vague nor even attempted to be clarified, like summon materia and how Cait Sith works, LOL.
Call it a headcannon, but I've been rolling with the explanation of Reeve being an inspire, and Cait Sith being a mass-produced plush toy. Rather than Cait Sith being a robot. I just like that explanation more, I find it more interesting, and until/unless they actually clarify one way or they other, I get to believe whatever I want.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

I dig that portrayal of Cait Sith...the only thing that's kind of jarring with it is, those few moments in-game where the radio that's built into him crackles and warbles, or transmits stuff from back at Shinra HQ

 

[Drax]

Cait Sith is just the most WTF character evar.

I mean if he's a robot remote-controlled by Reeve or whatever it was, why is he in AC too and looking like a non-robotic animated cat thing?

Because he's becoming more sentient and life-like every time he dies. Main villain in sequel confirmed, he's going to go Ultron on their asses.

Also I played through VII at least twice and don't remember reporters, or reporter cosplay of any kind.

 

[Random Nobody]

I think Cid and Barret talking about god in the novellas was the writer not thinking about real world terms not necessarily fitting into the fictional setting that's been established.

I was about to mark this down as author error (and it still might be), but Tifa says "Oh my god" in Mideel.

Of course I don't know if these are translation liberties, but still.

 

[Mayo Master]

Hi folks,


I'm a noob here, so long story short: I had been working on a home-made remake of FF7 for the past 2-3 years (if you're curious, please check Team Avalanche at qhimm forums), realized that it would take between 5-10 years to complete it (with a very optimistic schedule), so when Square announced the REAL remake, I decided to throw in the towel (the news made me happy, though). I decided to join because I've really enjoyed reading these threads, lots of constructive ideas around here


So, if I may throw in my own ideas, in semi-random order:

• Open-world Midgar, where the player could explore all the sectors. Obviously it would require adding a lot of content to make these new location interesting, and placing that “moment of exploration” appropriately in the game. My suggestions: have the game start when Tifa finds Cloud at the train platform of Sector 7, one month before the beginning of the OG. Then, fill Midgar with side-quests suitable for the “jack of all trades” whom Cloud aspires to be. One other benefit is that exposition can be made very gradually. The problem may be about the pacing of the beginning of the game.
• Have temporary playable characters, such as the Biggs/Wedge/Jessie trio. Having them playable would make the player care more about their deaths, besides.
• Up to the confrontation with Sephiroth at the end of the Whirlwind Maze, have most of Cloud's conversation with 3 dialogue choices: one reflecting Zack's persona (upbeat and energetic), one reflecting Cloud's “core persona” (good guy being very insecure), and one choice reflecting the Jenova-induced bouts of crazies. The player would have interesting dialogue interaction while being coherent with Cloud's messed-up psyche (the last option could even override the players' choices at critical moments, such as the end of the Temple of the Ancients). Things would get resolved and settled after Tifa meets Cloud in the Lifestream.

Ok, maybe I'd better stop here for now, or else my first post will degenerate into a (larger) wall of text

 

[NikolaiBroketheZoom]

I like the idea of starting before the first bombing mission, but I also really want the game to start with Cloud jumping off that train I think revealing that Tifa found Cloud practically catatonic in the train station might be too spoilery a thing to reveal at the beginning of the game, so maybe the game starts shortly after that. After all, we're supposed to believe that Cloud is cocky and confident, not mentally fucked.

 

[Starling]

Great ideas, though I'm not sure they'd be the best way to go about the remake. Tifa finding Cloud at the train station came up as late as it did for a reason. Cloud's issues are supposed to come up slowly and gradually. While in Midgar, we only get those bouts of voices and flashbacks to suggest that something's wrong and it does a good job of unsettling the player. Knowing right off the bat that Cloud was recently unwell would likely detract from that.

As for the dialogue options being split off into specific personas, that'd also likely hint at too much early on. I'd love to see them find a way to get Biggs, Wedge and Jessie to be temporarily playable though. Unfortunately, we probably won't get much of that.

I was about to mark this down as author error (and it still might be), but Tifa says "Oh my god" in Mideel.

Of course I don't know if these are translation liberties, but still.

Various things are so ingrained into languages that you don't really notice them until you think about them. Plenty of religious exclamations are simply viewed as ways to express things like surprise regardless of whether or not you actually practice the religion it relates to. If you remove stuff like oh my god and anything containing swearing, that leaves you with a lot less options to express surprise without making it sound weird.

 

[Flare]

Hi folks,


I'm a noob here, so long story short: I had been working on a home-made remake of FF7 for the past 2-3 years (if you're curious, please check Team Avalanche at qhimm forums), realized that it would take between 5-10 years to complete it (with a very optimistic schedule), so when Square announced the REAL remake, I decided to throw in the towel (the news made me happy, though). I decided to join because I've really enjoyed reading these threads, lots of constructive ideas around here


So, if I may throw in my own ideas, in semi-random order:

• Open-world Midgar, where the player could explore all the sectors. Obviously it would require adding a lot of content to make these new location interesting, and placing that “moment of exploration” appropriately in the game. My suggestions: have the game start when Tifa finds Cloud at the train platform of Sector 7, one month before the beginning of the OG. Then, fill Midgar with side-quests suitable for the “jack of all trades” whom Cloud aspires to be. One other benefit is that exposition can be made very gradually. The problem may be about the pacing of the beginning of the game.
• Have temporary playable characters, such as the Biggs/Wedge/Jessie trio. Having them playable would make the player care more about their deaths, besides.
• Up to the confrontation with Sephiroth at the end of the Whirlwind Maze, have most of Cloud's conversation with 3 dialogue choices: one reflecting Zack's persona (upbeat and energetic), one reflecting Cloud's “core persona” (good guy being very insecure), and one choice reflecting the Jenova-induced bouts of crazies. The player would have interesting dialogue interaction while being coherent with Cloud's messed-up psyche (the last option could even override the players' choices at critical moments, such as the end of the Temple of the Ancients). Things would get resolved and settled after Tifa meets Cloud in the Lifestream.

Ok, maybe I'd better stop here for now, or else my first post will degenerate into a (larger) wall of text

I like these ideas, especially the dialogue choices. That would make for an interesting playthrough (and a sort of easter egg for those who've played the original, therefore knowing why the dialogue choices are the way they are)

 

[55-]

I dig that portrayal of Cait Sith...the only thing that's kind of jarring with it is, those few moments in-game where the radio that's built into him crackles and warbles, or transmits stuff from back at Shinra HQ

That's true.
But we also never see Reeve operating any sort of remote control or anything, and no one at Shinra notices when he lets them listen in on meetings. Like if he was holding a microphone up I think they'd be like "could u not."
Maybe Reeve's the robot LOL

Also I played through VII at least twice and don't remember reporters, or reporter cosplay of any kind.

It's in Junon when Tifa and Barret are gonna be executed. Cait Sith disguises as a reporter to help bust 'em out of there. And Scarlet doesn't even notice. You run into Yuffie on the way to the airship. Idk why she's in disguise, maybe she just wanted to be on TV.
Tbh I didn't notice it either until I was playing around with makou reactor. It's hard to see because the camera angle is brutal, the field model is weird looking, and there's not enough dialogue to compensate and clarify.

 

[55-]

• Open-world Midgar, where the player could explore all the sectors. Obviously it would require adding a lot of content to make these new location interesting, and placing that “moment of exploration” appropriately in the game. My suggestions: have the game start when Tifa finds Cloud at the train platform of Sector 7, one month before the beginning of the OG. Then, fill Midgar with side-quests suitable for the “jack of all trades” whom Cloud aspires to be. One other benefit is that exposition can be made very gradually. The problem may be about the pacing of the beginning of the game.

Yo I would honestly take an entire game of just this. I think if it were to be in the remake it would throw off the pacing, yeah. But if they made a separate game or a DLC or something, where the whole game is just "walk around Midgar," "Do quests. . ."
OMG they should make a sequel where you run Cloud's delivery service! Goddd I would play that game so hard.

 

[Starling]

I think the best argument for Cait being more than just a robot is that he can use magic and limit breaks.

 

[Wolf_]

He could always have a system like KERS in f1. Turns friction into energy. Or in terms of the game a beating into power. What I'd like to see is at the end of the game get the key to midgar but have it as a super dungeon type deal. You can travel up to the top plate and fight a load of 1st class "ronin" Soldiers and mech that are using their powers to take the city for themselves. Would also explain why there are no soldier in the rest of the compilation but loads in the main game.

 

[Mayo Master]

About Cait Sith's nature: I've always found it a bit confusing that we're told it's a robot, but at the same time he's always described with cartoonish (and rather organic-looking, ie, not mechanic) animations.


With respect to some of my ideas (moving the starting point of the game, dialogue choices), I appreciate that we may not want to give away that Cloud's not right in the head. I think it largely depends on how it would be executed (for instance, make the dialogue choices seem like standard mechanics such as in Dragon Age games, without hinting at any mako poisoning cause).

OMG they should make a sequel where you run Cloud's delivery service! Goddd I would play that game so hard.

Actually, in my idea of “side-questing in Midgar”, I thought of having multiple delivery jobs and then have Cloud mumbling ”eh, I'm not doing so bad. Maybe I should think of making that a career”



Anyway, let me keep spamming the “semi-random idea generator”...

• Ok, implementation of weather (region-dependent) and day/night cycles, which would affect gameplay (store opening hours, monster encounters...) FF XV (and to a lesser extent FF XII) are already heading that way, so there may be a good chance of that.
• Loads and loads of alternate outfits for the characters, with bonus points if they actually make sense with the plot/situation. Could allow some fanservice (swimsuits when getting to Costa del Sol), but versatility and coherence would be better (say, when climbing the Gaea cliffs, have the party in polar expedition gear – or average Canadian winter gear, depending on your perspective ). Would also appreciate if the type of armour worn would be reflected on the characters' appearance.
• A “party camp”, something between the style of FF XV and Dragon Age Origins, mostly to have relaxed moments and engage in dialogues. In a way, the OG has a bit of that flavor each time the party reaches a new town, so it would be expending on that.

 

[NikolaiBroketheZoom]

If the party got winter gear there had better be furry hoods and earflap hats.

 

[Flare]

^Moogle and chocobo hats.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Definitely think the temporary outfit changes related to situation/environment is a great idea! That one scene at the bottom of Gaea's cliff where Barret is doing the "cold dance", and talking about how a place like this almost makes you think companies like Shinra are necessary, I always would find myself thinking "Of course you're cold! You're in fucking shorts, man!"

 

[Starling]

A show I watched called Young Justice had outfit variations based on what the character were doing. For example, snow gear in cold climates and dark versions of their usual costumes for stealth. It really does make a difference.

 

[Mayo Master]

One thing I might add about the outfits idea: I would really like outfits to be designed while accounting for functionality. Unfortunately, this aspect is neglected too often in video games. For instance, that would be my main complaint about Cindy's design in FF XV: not so much because "it's sexy", but rather because "it makes no sense with respect to her job as a mechanics".