SPOILERS How Strong is Remake Cloud?

[Makoeyes987]

Rosso is definitely above 1-C level, but I think Cloud had more important matters to attend to than flirting fighting with Rosso. In DC, his mission was specifically to reach the Mako Reactors and shut them down so Vincent could thwart Omega. So Cloud went "not interested" to her boss fight and kept it moving because he had a mission to complete.

But maybe Ever Crisis will give us a boss fight against her with Cloud That'd be something to flesh out the story.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Keep in mind... Weiss fights Azul and Rosso as if they are significantly weaker than him... He makes a point of being handicapped and only using one sword and still wipes the floor with them.

So... bare minimum... Weiss is up at Angeal, Genesis and (slightly below) Sephrioth's level (before Sephiroth went crazy). He has to be at the very high end of 1C level. That... Cloud isn't there yet.

I think it's important to remember that within SOLDIER 1st Class, there's a huge range of skill. You've got everything from Zack at the *start* of CC to Sephiroth's level... and everything in-between. And Cloud in Remake is definetly as good (if not a little better) than Zack at the start of CC is.

But I can't see Remake Cloud doing the likes of... defeating Genesis Avatar with no other help at this point. Not by a long-shot.

 

[Clement Rage]

As strong as the scene needs him to be. Sometimes he's helpless against helicopters, other times he's taking out whole platoons.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't think it's meaningful to even classify Sephiroth's power as in the range of SOLDIER 1-C. He's beyond that. He's beyond everything. Putting the range of power of SOLDIER 1-C members between faceless mooks and the strongest living weapon Shinra ever created basically renders the classification meaningless. Sephiroth's a 1-C but in rank only. In terms of raw power and magic, Sephiroth is simply beyond them all.

I wouldn't even say Weiss is "slightly" below him. Sephiroth is peerless, even before his madness. Weiss may be strong, but Sephiroth wouldn't even know who he is. The Tsviets are powerful, but Sephiroth is quite literally, the perfect monster. His limits remain unseen.

As for Genesis Avatar, technically Zack didn't beat him with no help either. If Zack could take that magic infused thing down with benefit of materia and equipment, I see no reason Cloud couldn't as well. In the end, Cloud may not technically be a SOLDIER of 1-C rank, but he's built like one, he demonstrates abilities on par and even beyond one, and he's got the innate talent necessary to adapt and evolve. He quite literally, will grow in strength as the confrontation requires him to.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I agree that Weiss probably couldn't beat Sephiroth in a fight, even pre-nibel.

That being said, I don't see Zack taking Weiss. If we agree that Rosso and Azul are good enough to take down most 1-c SOLDIERS, then we could reasonably say they'd probably represent a challenge for Zack, at least as he was at Nibelheim. As stated previously, Weiss can take Rosso and Azul at the same time without trouble, do I'd feel confident placing him well above Nibel Zack's level.

Given that I also think Zack has the edge over remake Cloud, then by my estimate Weiss should be able to handle Cloud just fine 1v1 right now.

Unless it's a group fight, or Weiss is being held back in some way, I feel like it would be a stretch for Cloud to beat him without developing a bit more first

 

[Makoeyes987]

If Zack could handle Weiss' "big brother," why would he be incapable of fighting his "younger brother?"

It would be a challenge, but Zack represents one of the strongest SOLDIERs ever to carry the title. I don't see why Weiss would be a wall Zack couldn't overcome. The limits of Zack's strength were taking out Sephiroth. That says something right there.

And if Cloud could handle all of the crap he went through just to get out of Midgar in Chapter 17 and 18, I really don't see why Cloud wouldn't be able to fight Weiss. Again, Cloud is no chump off the street, even at the beginning of his journey here. If Cloud could manage to dig deep and draw upon Advent Children level skills of superhuman abilities (chopping up skyscrapers, trains, moving inhumanely fast, motorcycle combat and just crushing mechas as if they were toys), Weiss isn't gonna just shove Cloud away like broccoli he didn't order. Nomura saying he wants to see a Cloud vs. Weiss match is pretty significant and telling with how he would expect these two to hang. Weiss is a superboss but if Cloud can take everything he can into battle, that's your equalizer right there.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I agree with Clement, he's always as strong, or weak, as he needs to be. He can leap the equivalent of at least a one story building from a piece of exploding walkway AND do an aerial backflip to impress Jessie; he can fall from the plate into Aerith's flower garden without suffering any damage; but he can't jump over a sewer, and when the sewer walkway breaks under him, threatening him with a three metre drop, he has to be rescued from certain death by Aerith and Tifa giving him something to catch on to.

The Jenova cells are the same. They help him learn fast when the story calls for it, but otherwise don't.

I find thinking too deeply about these inconsistencies spoils the game for me. I accept they're just part of the game and move on. I mean, to a large extent Cloud is as strong and competent as the player controlling him. If the player sucks, Cloud will suck too.

 

[Roundhouse]

My guess at a loose ranking:

Sephiroth
Zack
Genesis
Weiss
Cloud
The Turks

 

[Torrie]

Speaking of Cloud's strength, his incredible sword skills have always been part of the mystery to me, taking his background into account. Before Crisis kind of hints that it's his natural ability and/or inclination, but could mako & Jenova cells alone give him not only strength but the technique as well?

Slightly off-topic, but Cosmo Canyon Observatory posted the following bit of info recently, which I found amusing:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369297172450131968

Now, it may be lazy writing/coding from the creator's perspective, but I swear I'd never noticed that before, so I speculated in the comments that it could be a special unit between infantry and SOLDIERs aka infantrymen receiving SOLDIER training (i.e. sword-wielding techniques, for instance) but not yet approved... Cloud might have easily been part of such a unit, hence the skills. OR those troopers might be just willing to take out 1-C, because they've been promised a promotion into SOLDIER so they're eager to put their extra skills into practice. If AC Cloud were in Zack's shoes in that battle, I can easily imagine him succeeding due to his agility, but Remake Cloud? I wouldn't be so sure. He's still developing his potential.

Long story short, I have no idea what's going on and I can't wait for the upcoming Remake installments to give us a deeper dive into the lore (I'm gonna hope they will! )

 

[Lord Noctis]

If memory serves, there were regular shinra troops who tried to jump Zack early on in Last Order only to be slaughtered immediately, so it seems reasonable enough to assume one of two things: either all shinra troops are trained to fight as swordsman if needed, or there are squads inside the regular army that specialize in swordsmanship.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

In BC, Cloud has a rifle but he isn't very good with it; the player Turk has to save his butt. Later he takes a sword from one of the Avalanche Ravens, and is much better with it than he was with the rifle. When the Turk comments on this, he says, "I was desperate. I can’t remember what happened." (Limit Break?)

That's all I got for you