How strong was Angeal? And other questions.

[Cat Rage Room]

Unlike Genesis and Sephiroth, Angeal's fighting prowess wasn't really expanded or presented on too much in Crisis Core. Call it good or bad, but that's for another time.

We know that Genesis and Sephiroth were roughly equal. All three of them were 1st Class SOLDIERS, so they were obviously very strong. What I want to know is, where does Angeal stand strength wise?

What really gets me is that Zack managed to kill Angeal, even when he morphed into a super beast and whatnot, but Zack got his ass beat by a tired, crazy Sephiroth not too long later.

So what's the dilly-o?

 

[Loxetta]

I never thought the Angeal Penance beast was really a good indication of Angeal's own fighting ability. The weapons alone unlike anything we see any SOLDIER use. And Angeal's goal was to be defeated, and he probably wasn't putting as much effort into the fight as he could have -- just enough to seem like a threat so Zack would keep fighting.

To me, CC doesn't show Angeal's strength, plain and simple. It's shoved down our throats stated that he just about never uses his sword in the field, so he's obviously pretty confident fighting hand-to-hand. In the 2-on-1 match in the VR room, he's using a sword, and is probably slightly out of his 'comfort zone'. Plus the fact that he doesn't go ballistic and actually take it seriously and try to maul someone, unlike someone else thar.

I usually just say Angeal's on par with Gen and Seph. He can hop between them when they've just decided to go all-out on each other without batting an eye, after all...

(yes, I've spent too much time thinking about this)

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No other thoughts?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Who the fuck is Angeal?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Aww, that's a boring answer. :bmonster:

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sadly it's the truth. Angeal didn't do shit, so any type of guess is based on zero data. The most I can say is that he was strong enough to chop a Wutai monster in half with the Buster Sword?

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Sadly it's the truth. Angeal didn't do shit, so any type of guess is based on zero data. The most I can say is that he was strong enough to chop a Wutai monster in half with the Buster Sword?

True, maybe it could be said that since Angeal endured the same experiments as Genesis he could be as strong as him, but really, the game doesn't show much...

 

[Lord Noctis]

Sadly it's the truth. Angeal didn't do shit, so any type of guess is based on zero data. The most I can say is that he was strong enough to chop a Wutai monster in half with the Buster Sword?

He chopped it in half with one hand no less.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

And Angeal's goal was to be defeated, and he probably wasn't putting as much effort into the fight as he could have -- just enough to seem like a threat so Zack would keep fighting.

That's in in a nutshell.
As far as I can tell from reading various versions of the script (because I don't speak Japanese), Angeal wanted to die. He had become a torment to himself. But he didn't want to be gunned down like a monster, which I've always suspected might have been part of Tseng's brief for that mission. He wanted to die with honour, and he wanted Zack to do it. So yes, he wasn't fighting to win. Anyway, his 'monstrous' clones and forms are never really vicious.

I think we have to take it as read that Angeal was at least as strong as the other two. His role in the story, though, is obviously to provide the moral fibre, so it's this aspect of him which is given more screen time. He has strength of mind and character, stays completely sane throughout (within the context of what the story defines as sane), never compromises his principles, and never gives up on his friends. The more he uses his sword to kill, the more he tarnishes his honour. He's a decent bloke. Not many of them in Shinra.

Forgive me if I've been labouring the obvious. For what it's worth, I always felt he was stronger than Genesis, because he was more of a man.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, Angeal was definitely more of a man than Genesis or Sephiroth.

 

[ForceStealer]

Anyway, his 'monstrous' clones and forms are never really vicious.

Those Angeal-Sahagin were freaking annoying though, if I remember correctly.

 

[Mitch Connor]

Forgive me if I've been labouring the obvious. For what it's worth, I always felt he was stronger than Genesis, because he was more of a man.

Well I think its reasonable to say he is at least on the level of Genesis considering Genesis was the failure and Angeal was the more successful product of Project Gillian

 

[Loxetta]

Well I think its reasonable to say he is at least on the level of Genesis considering Genesis was the failure and Angeal was the more successful product of Project Gillian

I think the only difference in their Project-related abilities is that Angeal can merge with clones as well as make them, while Geni can only make them. It's not really hinted at that being Project SOLDIERs gave them more strength than the average SOLDIER, like it is with Sephiroth.

But I've been wrong before.

 

[Mitch Connor]

I think the only difference in their Project-related abilities is that Angeal can merge with clones as well as make them, while Geni can only make them. It's not really hinted at that being Project SOLDIERs gave them more strength than the average SOLDIER, like it is with Sephiroth.

But I've been wrong before.

Well Project Jenova (both G and S) happened before SOLDIER even existed. And the surviving products of the project are inherently more powerful than regular SOLDIER since their genes are altered by Jenova since birth. You're right about the difference between Genesis and Angeal, but wouldn't the fact that Angeal inherited more of Jenova's powers at least put him on Genesis' level? I think if Angeal had Genesis' personality and was always trying to compete with and prove his power to Sephiroth like he was, he might have shown himself to be just as powerful if not more than Genesis. Maybe...

 

[Loxetta]

Well Project Jenova (both G and S) happened before SOLDIER even existed. And the surviving products of the project are inherently more powerful than regular SOLDIER since their genes are altered by Jenova since birth. You're right about the difference between Genesis and Angeal, but wouldn't the fact that Angeal inherited more of Jenova's powers at least put him on Genesis' level? I think if Angeal had Genesis' personality and was always trying to compete with and prove his power to Sephiroth like he was, he might have shown himself to be just as powerful if not more than Genesis. Maybe...

Superior physical strength seems to be more prominently attributed to Project S than Project G, really. Sephiroth comes off as set slightly apart from the both of them in that aspect, but then again, that might just be from Square choosing not too focus on A&G's strength and instead focusing on their copy abilities.

As far as Angeal and Genesis among themselves, I do agree that Angeal was probably the more powerful of the two. Hollander says that Angeal received Jenova's power, but didn't really elaborate on what that means other than 'bidirectional clones'.

Too bad the guy's dead Guess we're not going to find out now.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, it's too bad that Angeal was more of a 'one shot' character. Not that I was expecting him to be more, but I wanted to see him fight.

Dammit! SE should release an updated Crisis Core.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Dammit! SE should release an updated Crisis Core.

Yes - with a more in-depth story, more Aerith, more Cissnei, more Angeal, more of the Shinra building, more upper Midgar, and a bigger variety of mission maps. And a happy ending....

 

[Dark and Divine]

Yes - with a more in-depth story, more Aerith, more Cissnei, more Angeal, more of the Shinra building, more upper Midgar, and a bigger variety of mission maps. And a happy ending....

I think CC's ending was as "happy" as it could have been.

 

[Gale]

When you want a story like Zack's to end on a positive note you get j-pop in the finale. Not sure that's necessarily a good thing.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I can't be the only person who liked Ayaka's "Why"...c'mon.

 

[ForceStealer]

When you want a story like Zack's to end on a positive note you get j-pop in the finale. Not sure that's necessarily a good thing.

Hey, could've been this.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Hey, could've been this.

 

[Gale]

If I had things my way Zack still would have been shot in the back and there'd be no musical accompaniment when Cloud crawls to his bloodied, incapable-of-mustering-dying-pep-talk corpse.

You can keep the pain-struck cut to Aerith though, maybe add in the MP that does in Zack kicking a puppy in front of her.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well there wasn't any musical accompaniment until after all that, I know there was still a pep-talk, but I would agree that music during all that would have sucked.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Taking out 'Why" would certainly make for a happier ending, anyway.