If Cloud thought he was Zack, why did he act the way he did?

[S.L.Kerrigan]

I like to believe that the part of Zack inside Cloud's mind (spiritual energy) comes from a copy process that could have happened during the experiment at the Shinra Mansion.

CC - extract 1
CC - extract 2

This process could potentially have copied Zack's memories and abilities into Cloud.
Maybe this was done in order to prepare Cloud for his mission.

CC - extract 3
CC - extract 4
OG - extract 5

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud and Zack aren't from Project G. So that's not possible. Cloud's Jenova cells lifted certain perceptual memories and experiences from Zack's mission in Nibelheim but he didn't copy or lift Zack's soul into him.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Cloud and Zack aren't from Project G. So that's not possible. Cloud's Jenova cells lifted certain perceptual memories and experiences from Zack's mission in Nibelheim but he didn't copy or lift Zack's soul into him.

You're probably right.
But if you put aside Jenova for a moment and consider these two extracts (1 and 2) don't you think that it would be possible to understand that the copy technology that got stolen is the one that handles Zack and Cloud in the Mansion ? (Copy technology)

I didn't say I thought Cloud had deliberately copied Zack into his own mind, but maybe someone did. If so, this is probably the guy responsible for the experiment.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That only applies to Project G derivatives, though. The "Copy Technology" is whatever laboratory methods and cell implantation methods used to make G-Type SOLDIER copies.

Normal SOLDIER members and Sephiroth do not do this and create copies like that. And I'm not sure what you're saying but if you're saying Zack was somehow copied into Cloud via some experiment, that's simply not possible. They're not from Project G. They utilize the more advanced and stable method of creating SOLDIERs. Which means genetic traits and abilities do not pass onto subjects gaining the cells from another. This is why Sephiroth doesn't create copies and why he does not degrade. The only "copying" that occurs is from Jenova's mimicry ability that's carried in her cells.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Maybe the technology has been stolen and improved.
What's the point to introduce a copy technology concept in CC ?
What is the point of declaring this technology stolen, to justify the multiplicity of enemies?
I'm not saying all of Zack got copied, but who knows really...

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Copy Technology was stolen by Hollander to aide Genesis in his campaign against Shinra. It was used to turn a bunch of monsters, 2nd and 3rd Class SOLDIERs into the Genesis and Angeal Copy enemies you fight against in Crisis Core.

As to why it was introduced... Well, it's part of the plot of Crisis Core and is the unique gimmick that differentiates Project G Type SOLDIERs (Genesis and Angeal) from Sephiroth. I assume the writers wanted to do something different but inspired by the Sephiroth Copies from the OG.

But it has nothing to do with Cloud and Zack. They were uninvolved with that G Type stuff. Hojo and Shinra had them. And they abandoned Project G because it was a failure. There's absolutely no reason to downgrade a SOLDIER or specimen from the Reunion experiment to that.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

The Copy Technology was stolen by Hollander to aide Genesis in his campaign against Shinra. It was used to turn a bunch of monsters, 2nd and 3rd Class SOLDIERs into the Genesis and Angeal Copy enemies you fight against in Crisis Core.

Zack's fair.

As to why it was introduced... Well, it's part of the plot of Crisis Core and is the unique gimmick that differentiates Project G Type SOLDIERs (Genesis and Angeal) from Sephiroth. I assume the writers wanted to do something different but inspired by the Sephiroth Copies from the OG.

But it has nothing to do with Cloud and Zack. They were uninvolved with that G Type stuff. Hojo and Shinra had them. And they abandoned Project G because it was a failure. There's absolutely no reason to downgrade a SOLDIER or specimen from the Reunion experiment to that.

Cloud is declared a clone (a copy ?) in OG, so maybe it has something to do with him and Zack.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Zack's fair.

What about Zack's fair?

Cloud is declared a clone (a copy ?) in OG, so maybe it has something to do with him and Zack.

No, that has to do with Sephiroth. You know, after the Nibelheim Incident Cloud, along with Zack, were experimented on to test the Jenova Reunion hypothesis. That means being injected with Jenova cells and infused with Mako.

This had no effect on Zack since it was identical to the SOLDIER procedure all SOLDIERs undergo, and that's why he remained unchanged. Cloud became a vegetable from Mako Poisoning and the Jenova cells. He's called a Sephiroth Copy because it involves using Jenova Cells and Mako, which were used to create Sephiroth. Cloud however isn't a literal copy of Sephiroth. But he does get controlled by him.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

What about Zack's fair?

That's fair ! Sorry, I tried a play on word...

No, that has to do with Sephiroth. You know, after the Nibelheim Incident Cloud, along with Zack, were experimented on to test the Jenova Reunion hypothesis. That means being injected with Jenova cells and infused with Mako.

Yep, they got experimented in these machines, which very resembles G project copy machines in my opinion (cylinder full of Mako).

I do not know the true value of this FANDOM page but it seems to be dedicated to the copying technology that Professor Hollander has developed.
I find that the symptoms of Cloud in OG are quite comparable to what is described on this page as the effects of the copying process on the target.

This had no effect on Zack since it was identical to the SOLDIER procedure all SOLDIERs undergo, and that's why he remained unchanged. Cloud became a vegetable from Mako Poisoning and the Jenova cells. He's called a Sephiroth Copy because it involves using Jenova Cells and Mako, which were used to create Sephiroth. Cloud however isn't a literal copy of Sephiroth. But he does get controlled by him.

Zack's a beautiful story !

 

[Roger]

Zack is fair and a beautiful story, Genesis however is a trainwreck, both from a narrative standpoint and on a genetic level. And that quality is important. He and fellow SOLDIER Type-G Angeal have the ability to make copies, there's nothing special about the pods that were used and Zack can't become like them. He was born a human being after all. Cloud is a copy of Sephiroth, no one else, he also used Zack's story to forge a SOLDIER First Class identity because he himself wanted a SOLDIER First Class identity.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

He and fellow SOLDIER Type-G Angeal have the ability to make copies, there's nothing special about the pods that were used and Zack can't become like them.

But we are talking about a technology that got stolen. I don't know how one could steal a physiological ability.
So this pod would have nothing to do with Genesis's copies ?
Let me decribe the scene.
Sephiroth leads Zack to evoke copies and when it's done turns his head to look at the machine. The camera changes angle by positioning itself inside the machine and looks at Sephiroth through the porthole, a little like what a person placed inside would do. Sephiroth evokes "abominations", while staring at the window.
I find this staging quite awkward if it is not intended to make us think this machine is related to the copy process.

Cloud is a copy of Sephiroth, no one else, he also used Zack's story to forge a SOLDIER First Class identity because he himself wanted a SOLDIER First Class identity.

How did Cloud got copied form Sephiroth ?

Zack is fair and a beautiful story, Genesis however is a trainwreck, both from a narrative standpoint and on a genetic level. And that quality is important.

Genesis get its name from the story that tells a certain view of the creation of the Earth and of mankind. I guess some can find him beautiful.
The Planet is the one entity that is attacked by and suffers from the greed of humanity. That remark reminds me of this Genesis's sentence :
"If this world seeks my destruction, it goes with me." (CC - extract)

 

[Roger]

It is the ability of Jenova to steal, copy and mimic traits. Genesis, Angeal, Sephiroth and the SOLDIERs each inherited this trait in different forms. It's not some machine that can stolen by and for anyone.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

It is the ability of Jenova to steal, copy and mimic traits. Genesis, Angeal, Sephiroth and the SOLDIERs each inherited this trait in different forms. It's not some machine that can stolen by and for anyone.

You can believe the technology that got stolen is Jenova or Jenova cells...

Machines are not what interests me the most. What interest me is the fact that they seem to use loads of Mako (lifestream, spiritual energy, some substance that might have the ability to interact with the mind (memories, knowledge) and why not help copy them) to do what they have to do.
What are these machines used for ? It feels like the room in which this event happens is dedicated to Genesis (see the red inscriptions "Dead" and another one I can't read (do you ?) and that he also probably wrote himself). Does he need to take a Mako shower every morning in order to slow down the degradation ? I do not feel that the degradation could have been slowed down in any way.

I thought a soldier only needed one Mako infusion to become SOLDIER. But I'm probably wrong since Zack is being given another one in the Mansion. Is this infusion thing the experiment ? I guess so since it lasted a few years...

That means being injected with Jenova cells and infused with Mako.

I find curious that we are given a glimpse of the Mako infusion process, but nothing about the injection (once again)...