Is OG-Cloud "dorky"?

*split off from the Concept art from art gallery thread*

At the end of the FF 30th Anniversary exhibit, Nomura made a surprise appearance, showed some new designs for the main characters and made the following comment:
A fan attendance described Cloud’s new design as a more natural look. Nomura and Hamaguchi mentioned that “while Cloud may look this way, he was a dork. I believe those of you who played the the original would understand what I mean by saying he’s a dorky character.”
My apologies Nomura, but no. I do not understand. :wacky:


Far as I can tell, to be "dorky" has multiple connotations: To be stupid, socially inept and/or awkward. Having these traits may lead to one ending up in silly situations or coming off as silly.

However, my memory of Cloud Strife in the original game doesn't subscribe to this image of him.

I can see why some people would think this way though. Cloud's overly serious and depressed depictions in Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts (and to a degree the PSP Dissidia titles) has caused a backlash and makes people long for the original game's Cloud. People point to the instance of Cloud saying "Let's Mosey" in the Northern Cave as a prime example of who Cloud is "supposed" to be. But is this really how Cloud was for most of the game? Or even how he acted after he recovered from mako poisoning, when Cloud is supposed to be more true to himself? I'm not getting that impression.

My impression is rather that the backlash against AC-Cloud is so strong that their idea of OG-Cloud overcompensates, turning him from a mostly neutral, non-distinct personality into a "dorky" one.


----------------------
Quotes from the Concept art thread:

Real Cloud is suppose to be an awkward boy, I feel like that's establised
Boy Cloud is at least meant to have trouble fitting in socially (which is then hinted at more in Crisis Core) but is adult Cloud "awkward" during the adventure in the original game? Is that what people mean by Cloud supposedly being "dorky"? If so, then I have little to no understanding of where that perception comes from.

Dorky isn't really that blunt a word. It's mostly an insult towards anyone who is acting foolish at the time, or whose been caught up in a situation that makes them look bad to the amusement of others.

When you look over the comedic moments in the game, Cloud has a habit of letting events steam roll right over him, and taking him along with it for whatever ride the writers want to take him on. That's the "Dorky" side, which is kinda ultimately summed up by "Let's Mosey."

Cloud is a country boy trying very hard to be a cool guy, and sometimes doesn't quite stick the landing.

See also, Cid's assessment:
Cid said:
"I want you to know that I didn't dislike him."
"Gotta admit he was a strange dude."
"Just when you thought he was cool, he'd go and do some damn fool thing."
"And when you thought he was smart, he'd show how stupid he was."
----------------------
I always pictured Cid referring more to Cloud's screw-ups: Handing the Black Materia to Sephiroth twice and beating up Aerith and then almost cleaving her in half. But there is definitely room for interpretation.

I question the idea of Cloud being "dorky". He got enrolled in shenanigans over at the Wall Market and I admit he gets a bit steam-rolled when he doesn't put his foot down against Cait Sith joining their party. But that still leaves me wondering how people are viewing Cloud and what Nomura's quote actually means.


For dissection by those who know Japanese, here is the "Let's Mosey" text in both English and Japanese.

{Cloud}
“All right, everyone, let's mosey.”

「よし、行こうよ、みんな」

{Cid}
“Damn! Again!”
“Stop sayin' it like a wimp!”
“Can't you say
'Move out!' or somethin'?”

「カーーッ! またかよっ!」
「やめてくれよ
 その気の抜けた言い方」
「『行くぜ!!』くらい
 言えねぇのかよ」

{Cloud}
“Move out!!”

「行くぜ!!」

Cid may say "Again!" implying that Cloud has made this mistake before of not choosing appropriate phrasing, but there is no other instance of Cloud saying "Mosey", or even of him saying the Japanese equivalent, "行こうよ" at any other point in the game. So I have no idea what previous instance Cid is referring to, if any.
 

JBedford

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JBed
I think this is the original Japanese quote. カッコ悪い "kakko warui" basically just means "uncool" or "lame".
 

Lex

Administrator
Awkward probably encompasses him best, but I'm not sure what they could do to his physical design to reflect that. The designs we've already seen are fine IMO.
 
but I'm not sure what they could do to his physical design to reflect that.
I took Nomura's quote as saying that Cloud's new, more "natural" look (whatever that means) specifically does NOT reflect Cloud's awkward nature and that only his behavior will show that aspect of him.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Dorky is a bit of a slang term. I don't see it being used as a substitute for stupid, but as a way of saying "socially awkward" which fits Cloud very well. It's one of the few character traits that's in both his soldier persona and afer he figures out who he really is.

I was pretty happy to find out that was something they were trying to get across in the Remake as it's missing in most other games Cloud shows up in.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Like you said, Cid saying "Again" refers to Cloud just being uncool in general, not specifically saying ikou/mosey.
One example of Cloud being uncool (potentially) around Cid I can think of is after kicking Shinra's ass in Junon, storming and commandeering a submarine, and immediately he wavers instead of taking command. And of course their disagreement over Shinra's rocket plan. Cid also disagreed with Cloud staying behind for him when the rocket was going to crash:

Cid
Don't worry 'bout me. Hurry up and go! If you don't hurry, the rocket's gonna crash into Meteor!

Cloud
...I can't go without my friends.

Cid
You ^%#@&%......! No time to worry 'bout other people!

Cloud
I'm gonna do whatever I can.

Cid
You're stupid. You're really $#&^%$* stupid.

Also, Cloud wavers after the rocket plan, while Cid is inspired:

Cid
Yeah, I been thinkin' about this and that.
All the time we been up here lookin' at the planet.
I been thinkin' even when we were floatin' in the ocean in that escape pod.

Cloud
I've... been thinking too. About the universe... planet... ocean.
How wide and big... No matter where I go and what I do it won't change a thing.

Cid
Maybe you're right.
But I came up with something different.
I always thought this planet was so huge.
But lookin' at it from space, I realized it's so small.
We're just floatin' in the dark. ......kind of makes you feel powerless.
On top of that it's got Sephiroth festerin' inside it like a sickness.
That's why I say this planet's still a kid.
A little kid sick and trembling in the middle of this huge universe.
Someone's gotta protect it.
Ya follow me? That someone is us.

Cloud gave Cid ample views of how "uncool" he was.

Lol, here's another. When Cloud says they'll fight Diamond, Cid asks if Cloud thinks they can win:

Cloud
OK! Let's go! We'll beat Weapon ourselves!

Cid
Hey Cloud......
You think we can win against that monster? We got a chance of winnin', right?

Cloud
How would I know?

Not exactly an inspiring response :P Now, he does say "let's move" after that, I don't know if the Japanese is something forceful like 行くぞ! or not. But either way, answering the question like that could definitely be another case of him "sayin' it like a wimp."
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Seems like one of those cases where a character trait gets exaggerated by the fanbase and becomes a more dominant characteristic. Cloud had a bit of awkwardness, but it wasn't really a core character beat as far as I could tell.

Like the depression in AC, it got overstated in the retelling. But we'll see.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Awkward as his true self is, he's definitely suppose to be appear as this absolute badass to Jessie, Biggs and Wedge. So I dunno if the adjustments we are now hearing off are all that great.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Cloud was generally a giant lame-o, despite being hyper competent (like seriously, other than the Black Materia cray-cray, Cloud gets shit done), liked, and respected by generally everyone around him. But he was still super corny despite this.

Dorky doesn't have to mean 'socially awkward'. It just means corny.

I think that's what everyone (in real life) liked about him.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Doesnt some guy in wall market call him an 'unpopular dweeb'?
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
He does, but you can be liked/respected and an unpopular dweeb at the same time.

It's weird, I know, but it's definitely possible.
 

Mage

She/They
AKA
Mage
He does, but you can be liked/respected and an unpopular dweeb at the same time.

It's weird, I know, but it's definitely possible.

*raises hand* :monster:

I like that Cid's assertions are being quoted here, what with him taking leadership of the party whilst Cloud is a dribbling wreck and being a pretty inspiring leader at that. I got the impression he knew Cloud had the potential to be the badass that Biggs, Wedge and Jessie saw but kept fucking up with both words and actions, then having the determination to put things as right as he could.
I probably would've gone with 'bit of a twat' over dorky but eh, semantics.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
To this day I still don't understand that weird circling hand motion he did when showing off to Avalanche on the train.
 

Mage

She/They
AKA
Mage
We joked he was going to do Rimmer's salute from Red Dwarf. Now THAT is dorky shit!
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Just some thoughts I had on Cloud's personality a couple of days ago when the "dorky" comment first surfaced:
It’s interesting that perceptions of Cloud’s personality can differ so greatly for a variety or reasons (beyond personal subjectivity): e.g. the differences between more literal/accurate translations of the Japanese OG script and the flawed but memorable English localization, the limited graphical fidelity/detail the blocky models of the OG (plus no voice acting) allowing a greater individual freedom in terms of projection/interpretation of nuances to his character, but also the twist to his character narrative itself is another major factor I think, as more than half the game Cloud is attempting to project a partially false persona, so depending of which parts of the game were most memorable for individual players, his false persona is what people remember and associate with his character more than his end-game personality.

Like when talking about being more accurate to Cloud's "authentic"/original personality besides the personal subjectivity involved in it, it's also important to specify the when and what state Cloud is in the narrative.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Yes an no.

Cloud in OG is a subversion of the dark edgy main character trope. He's clearly written and written and designed in the vein of someone like Guts from Berserk, or Deckard from Blade Runner. The whole twist regarding his identity is that he isn't doesn't really play into the trope he's built up to be. In fact, he isn't all that different from The Player... The person acting out being the cool guy.

so ya idk I think dorky is pretty apt if you consider the fact that wide-eyed little boy is a big part of his characterization. I think you can use the term dorky to say these things without implying the person is pathetic or hopeless, which Cloud certainly isn't. At the same time, you're also supposed to believe that he's cool for a good portion of the game and I think it's fine if his design shows him being the stereotypical cool guy /shrugemoji
 

Purple

Charmed
Awkward probably encompasses him best, but I'm not sure what they could do to his physical design to reflect that. The designs we've already seen are fine IMO.

This, I didn't see anything wrong with his design in the remake trailer. Truth be told, I'm kinda anxious about this new "design"

What does "closer to the original" design mean? Are they changing the whole art style of the game? Would it be more cartoon-y ala Persona 5 character models?

I hope they'd at least give us one screenshot!
 

Metal Heart

quiet like a fight
I always thought Cloud was dork as it was. That's why I liked him so much!

But what does dork mean in Nomura's terms though? Like if Cloud straight up acts like Sora. I dunno how to feel about that. As for his new design. I don't mind if they make it closer to his original or similar to AC. I really want that anyways!

I'm going to try and stay positive, I guess...
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
I always thought Cloud was dork as it was. That's why I liked him so much!

But what does dork mean in Nomura's terms though? Like if Cloud straight up acts like Sora. I dunno how to feel about that. As for his new design. I don't mind if they make it closer to his original or similar to AC. I really want that anyways!

I'm going to try and stay positive, I guess...

I get the feeling they want to emphasize that Cloud tries really hard to be the straight man in all these insane scenarios he's thrust into, and inevitably goes along, and somehow manages to succeed.

I think to a few key scenes in World of Final Fantasy that shows some of that derp side, where again, Cloud get's roped into someone else's bad idea, even though he's vocally trying to refuse. His deadpan snark makes him the butt of the joke because no matter how firmly he resists, he ALWAYS caves into the will of other people if it's for a good cause.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
For dissection by those who know Japanese, here is the "Let's Mosey" text in both English and Japanese.

{Cloud}
“All right, everyone, let's mosey.”

「よし、行こうよ、みんな」

{Cid}
“Damn! Again!”
“Stop sayin' it like a wimp!”
“Can't you say
'Move out!' or somethin'?”

「カーーッ! またかよっ!」
「やめてくれよ
 その気の抜けた言い方」
「『行くぜ!!』くらい
 言えねぇのかよ」

{Cloud}
“Move out!!”

「行くぜ!!」

The Japanese line for "Let's mosey" was definitely dorky. Cloud phrased it softly, almost like a suggestion or like he was trying to round up some kindergartners to get them back on the bus during a field trip -- "Alright, let's go, everyone." It lacked the sort of impact you'd expect from someone about to lead their unit into a possible suicide run.

Cid's suggestion of "Ikuze!" is the kind of thing you'd hear at the start of a match in a fighting game.

To this day I still don't understand that weird circling hand motion he did when showing off to Avalanche on the train.

He's brushing his clothes off. Classic too-cool-for-school/"no sweat" kind of mannerism.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
The more I learn about the actual Japanese script, the more respect I have for the (...Three?) different writers whose task it was to make any of this stuff work in English and still make it memorable.
 

InterfaceLeader

Pro Adventurer
Cloud in OG is a subversion of the dark edgy main character trope. He's clearly written and written and designed in the vein of someone like Guts from Berserk, or Deckard from Blade Runner. The whole twist regarding his identity is that he isn't doesn't really play into the trope he's built up to be. In fact, he isn't all that different from The Player... The person acting out being the cool guy.

I think this is a key thing. Initially he's presented as typical cool, powerful, anti-hero who doesn't care about anything or anyone. But that's just a mask and you realise he's not that powerful and also he actually does care a lot about the people around him.

Then (with the help of his friends) he defeats the actual 'cool' villain who cares so little about things/people/the planet that he's prepared to destroy it all.

To me, Cloud's key character trait is that he cares about people, and that's partly why he goes along with all the crazy plans people come up with... whether that's cross-dressing, riding a dolphin, playing tower defense to save an egg, going with Tifa into the mountains... He's not particularly powerful by himself, but because he cares about people, they care about him. That's how he makes such a good leader and ends up being able to defeat Sephiroth. He doesn't do it alone, they do it together, because they care about each other.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
The more I learn about the actual Japanese script, the more respect I have for the (...Three?) different writers whose task it was to make any of this stuff work in English and still make it memorable.
I've heard it was just one. Which is just... crazy.
 

Blade

That Man
AKA
Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
When people ask me if a game made in 1997 is Dorky, I kinda have to say "well it wasn't when it came out".

:retreat:

Also, I always renamed Cloud "Blade" in my playthroughs, so that was less dork and more awesome (read: self-indulgent egotism) for me.
 
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