Kitase asked about FF Fan Theories

[JechtShotMK9]

The Knights are summoned with the "Knights of the Round" skill. The three that actually have HP bars are Zephirin, Adelphel and Janlenoux. The other knights are Vallguine, Hermenost, Ignasse, Paulecrain, Haumeric, Grinnaux, Naoudenet, Guerrique and Charibert and they all have their own specific attacks. Adelphel, Grinnaux and Charibert are also the bosses of the lvl 57 dungeon.

Which was my point. We are fighting the Knights of the Round. The game itself tells us so.

 

[Joker]

Pretty sure Arthur and Thordan are not the same person. I'm not saying they're not based on them (Ultimate End duh), but it's not them. :/

 

[JechtShotMK9]

Pretty sure Arthur and Thordan are not the same person. I'm not saying they're not based on them (Ultimate End duh), but it's not them. :/

Does anything even say that the King in the KotR summon is named Arthur? Or that it's even a king? I mean, I'm not saying they're not based off of them, but as far as I know, nothing says it's Arthur.

And it's not just Ultimate End. Thordan literally summons the "Knights of the Round." That's actual ingame text.

Regardless, why does it even have to be the "same" Knights of the Round? FFIV and FFVII both have a Fat Chocobo, but that doesn't make it the same Fat Chocobo. Cait Sith in FFVI is not VII's Cait Sith, or XIV's. Espers in XII are a totally different order of being than Espers in VI.

 

[Roger]

Ultimania Omega clarifies that the last knight is King Arthur.

 

[Shademp]

Ultimania Omega clarifies that the last knight is King Arthur.

The FF wiki refers to page 497 of the UO as the source for this. TLS doesn't have its own translation but here are pages 496-497 if anybody wants to transcribe and translate.

FFVIIUO
- Page 496
- Page 497

The lower left of page 497 appears to refer to アーサー王 [King Arthur]. Indeed, on the lower right side I can spot a reference to エクスカリバー [Excalibur].

The final knight of the FFVII summon is also named Arthur in the Final Fantasy Creatures lines of figurines.

Pretty sure Arthur and Thordan are not the same person.

Of course they're not the same person. Afaik we have nothing to connect the FFVII and FFXIV universe in such a way that the two would be literally the same entity.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And for that matter, FFXV's KotR (explicitly referred to as such in the credits of "Kingsglaive") are not the same entities as VII's or XIV's, but they're the Knights of the Round. Likewise, VI's Shiva and Ifrit, VII's, VIII's, IX's, X's, XIV's, XV's, etc.

 

[Roger]

Feel like there's a difference between two games each having their own Odin and one game having Odin and the other having their own Asgardian All-Father who is not Odin.

 

[JechtShotMK9]

Feel like there's a difference between two games each having their own Odin and one game having Odin and the other having their own Asgardian All-Father who is not Odin.

I don't see how it's any different than having a Bahamut in FF1 who is a dragon king, vs a Bahamut in FFVII who is a dragon but not a king, vs a Bahamut in FFX who is a dragon but also a 10 year old boy ghost thing, vs a Bahamut in XII that is neither a dragon, or a king, or a ghost boy thing, but rather the Death Star on top of a tornado, vs. a Bahamut in XIV that is actually the zombie-god mindless dragon that is not a king, or a 10 year old boy ghost thing, or a space station.

In I and IX, Marilith is one of the Four Fiends. In XII, Marilith is a palate swap of a random snake encounter. Do we dig in our heels and argue that Marilith isn't in XII?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

If you're going to go that far, you might as well say that the FFXIV Primals/summons aren't comparable to summons in previous games. FFXIV Primals (which look like summons from the previous games) are beings that drain aether from the land much like a mako reactor does. The only way to return said aether is to kill them. In fact, the only person who really benefits from them is Zodiark...

 

[Roger]

Feel like there's a difference between two games each having their own Odin and one game having Odin and the other having their own Asgardian All-Father who is not Odin.

I don't see how it's any different than having a Bahamut in FF1 who is a dragon king, vs a Bahamut in FFVII who is a dragon but not a king, vs a Bahamut in FFX who is a dragon but also a 10 year old boy ghost thing, vs a Bahamut in XII that is neither a dragon, or a king, or a ghost boy thing, but rather the Death Star on top of a tornado, vs. a Bahamut in XIV that is actually the zombie-god mindless dragon that is not a king, or a 10 year old boy ghost thing, or a space station.

He's still called Bahamut. King Arthur has seen lots of different interpretations but few go "Here are the Knights of the Round Table, who the heck is King Arthur, this is about my personal OC, do not steal". If feel that's a step in the wrong direction. Doesn't build the property, King Arthur is a litte too essential the Arthurian mythology at the end of the day.

 

[JechtShotMK9]

I don't really see how any of this is relevant at all, when the game calls them "The Knights of the Round." How you feel things should be doesn't really matter here. That's what they are.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What JSMK9 said.

And for that matter ... it's not like anyone working on a Final Fantasy created Bahamut, Shiva, Gilgamesh, Leviathan, ifrits, the Midgardsormr and so on and so forth. There are all sorts of reimagined mythological borrowings in FF. I'm going to have to call drawing the line at King Arthur more than a tad bizarre.

FF has its own take(s) on such things, including the Knights of the Round -- and what we see in XIV and XV are FF iterations of the FF take on the concept.

That's both the long and the short of it.

 

[Roger]

I don't mind them using King Arthur, I mind them using the Knights of the Round Table as an attribute for a different character. And Shiva, Ifrit and Bahamut have had several FF installment where the build up a number of familiar traits. If Yojimbo was a western style knight in his second appearance I wouldn't like that either, seems a little early in the game for change for the sake of change.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't mind them using King Arthur, I mind them using the Knights of the Round Table as an attribute for a different character.

Again, see Bahamut, Shiva, Midgardsormr, Tiamat, Odin, etc. Those names are being used as attributes of often drastically different characters as well.

If Odin is the one who has the most in common with his namesake, we've still ventured really far from the source.

 

[JechtShotMK9]

In II, Palamecia was a country.
In XIII, Palamecia was an airship.

IT'S NOT PALAMECIA!!! IT'S NOT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT

Enkidu is a chicken now. Why are we even having this discussion?

 

[Channy]

Sooo..... those VIII theories were really cool.

 

[Ite]

I like how much he liked the Squall is Dead theory.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I don't like how much he liked the Squall is Dead theory.

It's interesting to think about, sure, but I always thought that people who insisted it was true was irritating. It seems super silly.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

"Moombas are too out there to be anything but a death fever dream! ... What's that about keeping mystical beasts used as weapons of mass destruction in a classroom computer?"

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Moombas are the one thing from FFVIII I wish had become a reoccurring thing in later FF titles. They manage to have the same "cute monster" feeling that Tonberries and Cactaurs have. Only they're fluffy! And by "cute monster" I mean that I'd totally buy a plushie version of them.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Official moomba plushies exist.

 

[Joker]

inb4moombasff14

I loved ff8 and didn't even know about the rinoa = ultimecia thing. I'm reading that like uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nah I don't see it dude