Love the og or the remake part 1?

[Verena]

Whaddah yer mean by shitshow in slums in og?

 

[Leafonthebreeze]

I mean they're a bit more one note - everyone is having a really bad time, everyone wants out and once they're out they don't want to get back. Some of this is fanon - a lot of how the slums were represented in fic for example was just the most horrific place possible, which was really interesting to explore, and why at first I wasn't sure about the new version, but I guess isn't that realistic overall.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Comparing the pacing of Remake to the OG is a tricky area for me because, like many other comparisons of this nature, our perceptions are colored by the OG. We all expect the story beats that they have to hit, so naturally it might feel like filler having to slog through the extra stuff. Even so, I generally avoid treating Remake like I’m just checking off items on a checklist. At the end of the day, it’s a 5-6 hour segment that wasn’t originally made to be its own thing now stretched to 40+ hours.

I feel like I can’t fairly judge the pacing of Remake on its own unless I could somehow erase my memories of the OG. Honestly, I wasn’t particularly engaged with the OG Midgar until the trail of blood (Wall Market frankly felt like a chore to me), but the Nibelheim flashback was what really hooked me in. The character interactions as presented in Remake at least helped me find an appreciation for what they managed to do with the OG Midgar, but that’s only with the benefit of hindsight really.

 

[Verena]

Lol, what is weird in taking a comparison between an retro game and a modern? Game?
Everybody does it. So this expression fails miserably downside. At least for me lol
Like i should never have started a thread like this manner. Thx, appreciated, man

 

[KindOfBlue]

Lol, what is weird in taking a comparison between an retro game and a modern? Game?
Everybody does it. So this expression fails miserably downside. At least for me lol
Like i should never have started a thread like this manner. Thx, appreciated, man

I never said it’s weird, but okay I guess? I think the fact that everybody does it means more and more people are likely to miss the point when they do it lol.

Comparisons between the remake and the OG sometimes boil down to “remake bad because X was different than the OG”. Although the remake discourse on this site is generally more in-depth than that, it can sometimes get really repetitive trying to argue the remake’s merits/faults in relation to the OG when it has fundamentally different goals than the OG.

I mean for crying out loud, we still get people complaining about Nomura because “Kingdom Hearts bad” even though he was one of the people keeping the remake grounded in faithfulness to the OG.

Especially now after the initial shock of the remake’s ending has subsided, I feel like it’d be more productive to focus on how the remake can best utilize modern technology to adapt, reinterpret and expand the OG, which is the explicit goal stated by the devs.

It’s a remake, so by nature, some things will be inherently different. Different doesn’t mean better or worse, nor does having a preference for one thing make the other thing bad. I extend that same courtesy to the OG. For instance, I never liked turned-based games and much prefer action games, but how ridiculous would it be for me to say the OG is bad for not being an action game? I feel silly just typing that lol.

 

[Random Nobody]

I’m just here to say please stop shitting on the OG’s character writing. You may prefer all the extra stuff but I enjoyed very little of it, and prefer the economy of characterization from the OG to Remake, which I found somehow overcooked and undercooked at the same time, which would have been impressive had it not been so irritating.

Aeris is particular is less of a manic pixie dream girl in OG, whereas I found her insufferably tropey in Remake (and in the comp in general). Making a high-five a character/relationship arc was not the thing for me.

 

[Golden Ear]

I can understand why some might be annoyed by Aerith's characterization in Remake after thinking about it.

I guess it's what's perceived as the overly spunky, super optimistic, playful kind of character that they see in anime and what not (I actually don't watch a lot of anime).

It's interesting because that is actually how I interpreted her in the OG game! Or at least the parts her which are outgoing, kinda quirky, and teasing. The thing about the OG is that we do a lot of our own projecting onto the polygons while they do their relatively limited animation gestures while we read the text boxes and infer our own idealizations of how that character is in our heads.

So making a Remake with modern highly detailed graphics, facial animations and voice acting will always be impossible to please everyone because now none of us can project our idealization of how that character comes across. I guess I'm lucky in that my interoperation of OG Aerith was very close to what the development team has created in Remake and it genuinely sucks that isn't for everyone. But it's impossible to please everyone in a situation like this.

However, having said that, she did come across as a bit more spunky or maybe overly enthusiastic when she met Cloud which felt different to me then the OG.

When I first played Remake I was a bit put off by Aerith in a way. I remember asking myself 'Why is she so excited that Cloud's going to stick around?" "She's being all super exuberant, wtf they just met?" "Are they developers really going to pull this cheesy boy meets girl and they fall in love right away kind of annoying shit?" "Why is she doing this 'One date ought to do it" stuff?" "Why was she so adamant about giving Cloud a flower in Ch.2, she wasn't that pushy in the OG?"

After playing the game and after all of us have come to understand what's going on under the surface of this new story context, my perspective flipped. The difference in Aerith's character made complete sense to me now. She wasn't being the super flirty anime dream girl in that kind of overly cheesy boy meets girl and fall for each other right away kind of thing. She was excited because she's doing this all over again, meeting Cloud all over again as well as Tifa. She's playing dumb but can't completely conceal her excitement and happiness. These are her friends that she has a deep spiritual connection with that goes beyond whatever 'time or lifestream; stuff that has caused this miracle to happen.

Of course none of know exactly what Aerith knew or currently knows, and that goes into all the theory crafting. But considering this and at least to me, Aerith' s characterization now makes total sense.

 

[Verena]

I luvv the english voice actress Brianna White, also Britt Barons Tifa voice
They made it well or what you think of them?

GoldenEar said it, if you remember. But maybe its not easy or problematic? to compare the 2?

 

[Eerie]

After playing the game and after all of us have come to understand what's going on under the surface of this new story context, my perspective flipped. The difference in Aerith's character made complete sense to me now. She wasn't being the super flirty anime dream girl in that kind of overly cheesy boy meets girl and fall for each other right away kind of thing. She was excited because she's doing this all over again, meeting Cloud all over again as well as Tifa. She's playing dumb but can't completely conceal her excitement and happiness. These are her friends that she has a deep spiritual connection with that goes beyond whatever 'time or lifestream; stuff that has caused this miracle to happen.

That has literally NO basis in game, as a theory. So far absolutely everything can be explained in game without Remake having to be the OG's sequel.

 

[Golden Ear]

That has literally NO basis in game, as a theory. So far absolutely everything can be explained in game without Remake having to be the OG's sequel.

For sure we don't know exactly yet what's going on so I'm assuming as is everyone. My best guess, and I know quite a few other agree, is at some point Aerith has gained some kind of knowledge of transpired events and I would argue there is evidence throughout part 1 for this. I don't necessarily mean time travel or anything, just some kind of knowledge or awareness, realizations.

I'm just talking about the kind of stuff that everyone has all ready noticed since the game came out. Do you think maybe she doesn't remember Cloud? It really comes across like she does but I'm open to other explanations.

 

[LNK]

For sure we don't know exactly yet what's going on so I'm assuming as is everyone. My best guess, and I know quite a few other agree, is at some point Aerith has gained some kind of knowledge of transpired events and I would argue there is evidence throughout part 1 for this. I don't necessarily mean time travel or anything, just some kind of knowledge or awareness, realizations.

I'm just talking about the kind of stuff that everyone has all ready noticed since the game came out. Do you think maybe she doesn't remember Cloud? It really comes across like she does but I'm open to other explanations.

Idk how it could be a sequel to ff7. We already know it takes place right after crisis core. That's what it's a sequel to.

Yes aerith has some vague knowledge of the future, but that's not because she's already lived through things. It's just because of her cetra heritage

 

[Leafonthebreeze]

I interpreted a lot of her seeming familiarity with Cloud as her projecting Zack on to him, considering the similarities of their meeting. The "One date should do it" line definitely nods to that I think. Their whole little arc in remake feels like she starts out trying to respond to Cloud like he's Zack, then slowly realises that's not working and switches to trying to figure out what's going on with this guy, and to bring him out of his shell (the whole hi five drama lol). Feels pretty realistic to me. She does grate on me a bit when she's solo with Cloud (I much prefer the scenes where Cloud, Tifa and Aerith are together) but she feels like a fairly realistic character.

 

[Eerie]

For sure we don't know exactly yet what's going on so I'm assuming as is everyone. My best guess, and I know quite a few other agree, is at some point Aerith has gained some kind of knowledge of transpired events and I would argue there is evidence throughout part 1 for this. I don't necessarily mean time travel or anything, just some kind of knowledge or awareness, realizations.

I'm just talking about the kind of stuff that everyone has all ready noticed since the game came out. Do you think maybe she doesn't remember Cloud? It really comes across like she does but I'm open to other explanations.

I’ve a whole thread about Aerith’s powers in this forum (written even before ToTP was out), and she tells you in game in the church that she has foreknowledge powers.

My current theory is that it’s her own self from the future (aka dead in the Lifestream) who sent her the visions since she was little as to prepare herself better to fight Sephiroth. However the whispers took her knowledge by the end of the game (ToTP), and she cut that link with her future self by entering the Singularity. This might have been Sephiroth’s true goal too, to diminish her power (he lured her with the vision of Zack and his Last Stand).

 

[Verena]

Well. I myself dont know any of the books and Denzels anime

 

[Eerie]

There are many Ultimanias. I don't think it's really necessary to own them, unless you really want it.

As for the books, there is "On the Way to a Smile" which covers the time between the end of FFVII and ACC. Inside, there is Episode Denzel which has been animated, indeed. It was the beginning for Nojima to write true stories, and it shows, especially compared to the later books, aka the Turks novella which is crazy good and to me makes a better end to ACC than ACC. ToTP is the last one out, focusing on Tifa and Aerith's pasts, and it's also awesome - if you love the ladies, don't hesitate to buy it, it'll be out... sometime in January? Maybe February in English. The French version is out this November.

 

[Golden Ear]

I’ve a whole thread about Aerith’s powers in this forum (written even before ToTP was out), and she tells you in game in the church that she has foreknowledge powers.

My current theory is that it’s her own self from the future (aka dead in the Lifestream) who sent her the visions since she was little as to prepare herself better to fight Sephiroth. However the whispers took her knowledge by the end of the game (ToTP), and she cut that link with her future self by entering the Singularity. This might have been Sephiroth’s true goal too, to diminish her power (he lured her with the vision of Zack and his Last Stand).

That's fine, but in your theory did the future Aerith send visions informing her about Cloud in any way? Or even Tifa or maybe Marlene? It's just the way they did some scenes really seems to hint that Aerith knows who they were or has some kind of awareness or realization that she has met some of them before or at least her future self has met them before. Maybe this is a semantics thing and I'm not necessarily saying that she literally lived through past events.

The whole "Bodyguard works not too different from merc stuff right?".
Cloud baffled how did she know?
Aerith awkwardly trying to come up with a justification "Uhhhh....I guessed....from the sword".

The way this interaction is portrayed is really hinting at "uh oh I got caught, better come up with an explanation".



Maybe you agree with all of this? I agree she has forgotten a lot by the end of the game. If future Aerith had informed this Aerith, is it likely she has informed her of the importance or understanding of these people who are very important to her? Why would the future Aerith send visions of this Aerith to better fight Sephiroth while completely leaving out knowledge or awareness of Cloud, or maybe Tifa too? They are all directly wrapped up in the fate of the planet, probably the most important people that she should understand in defeating Sephiroth, no?

 

[Eerie]

That's fine, but in your theory did the future Aerith send visions informing her about Cloud in any way? Or even Tifa or maybe Marlene? It's just the way they did some scenes really seems to hint that Aerith knows who they were or has some kind of awareness or realization that she has met some of them before or at least her future self has met them before. Maybe this is a semantics thing and I'm not necessarily saying that she literally lived through past events.

Absolutely she had visions of their meetings, of Cloud x Tifa (guessing she was his girlfriend except oops, misplaced the event so not yet), Tifa, Marlene... Aerith definitely sent herself visions about all of what happened in FFVII. She also doesn't want to fall in love with Cloud, remember (but it's her fate to do so, so she will). For example, for Sephiroth, it's when Cloud talks about him that "our" Aerith realises what's happening in the Lifestream - I feel that she hadn't understood prior, but Cloud's words made her understand why there were problems with the Lifestream. Either she already knew about it and lied to Cloud, either she realised it on the spot, but given the camera work, something went on at that moment.

With Sephiroth being more powerful, I think dead!Aerith hadn't anticipated that he'd make them cross the Singularity and cut herself from her younger version. The question is, did that also happen to Sephiroth? I think it's likely it did, so the OG story can continue to be told (more or less).

 

[Golden Ear]

Okay so it looks like we agree that she has an awareness of these people and understands their importance to her. That's all I was really getting at, which makes sense in how they made her more enthusiastic with Cloud compared to her OG characterization.

 

[Ashen]

I prefer the OG. I replay it a lot and Midgar is one of my fave parts, but I think some of the reasons I like it are missing in Remake. In the OG, that part is short, fast-paced, and works as a prologue to the rest. Not only that, but I think the way they introduced Sephiroth in the OG was brillant, and the last part of the Shinra tower is one of my top favorite parts, yet it's all lost in Remake. It was instead heavily edited or exchanged for something that I personally found much inferior.

That said, after playing Remake I replayed the OG, and I found myself missing stuff from the newer game. The characters were much more fleshed out in Remake, many extra scenes were more than welcome, some changes just felt natural and battles were much more exciting. Even if I like the OG more, Remake is a game I'll probably replay a lot too.

 

[ForceStealer]

^Now there's someone with the right take

 

[Roundhouse]

Really surprised at the disapproval of the OG here, especially the Cloud and Aerith characterisations. What is wrong with them, exactly?

Remake -does- have strong points for sure, but overall I prefer the og approach which leaves more room for imagination, and even some of the actual story choices. The 'Jaws' mystery approach with Sephiroth, for example, rather than him appearing in every coffee shop and grocery store with his 'Helloooooo Clooooouuuud'. I also prefer the characterisation of Aerith, who in the og isn't some kind of weird Time Sage with future knowledge.

The pacing is also FAR better in the og, for me at least. Remake felt bloated.

Again, remake has strong points for sure, and does improve upon the og in a few ways, but I don't support the idea that it's far better at all. Not even close.

/edit

After reading some responses, Cold, as usual, has a superb take.

 

[Eerie]

Really surprised at the disapproval of the OG here, especially the Cloud and Aerith characterisations. What is wrong with them, exactly?

Cloud is an arsehole before the LS scene - except to Tifa, she's the only one you can't be an arsehole too, but their interactions are too few to really make an impression - and Aerith spends a good 80% of the game (while she's alive that is) trying to flirt openly with him, not caring about Tifa's feelings (see: Nomura's comment about her)... and she's too much in general, not caring about others, like Barret - I'm sorry but I hated her there and it had nothing with her and the LT for once. Aerith felt very egocentric to me, I didn't see any "kindness" in her character. Fuck that shit, both were toxic waste, as a woman past 25 when I first played, both were FULL of red flags. I simply didn't understand why Cloud had two women after him, and the "romance" between him and Aerith was awfully forced and terrible. By the time Mideel arrived, I was like "please Tifa just drop his sorry arse, he doesn't deserve you".

And I mean, Remake did pick up some of Cloud's OG arseholeness, but thankfully didn't keep it for long - I'm guessing the multiple games meant that by design they didn't want people to get the wrong impression of him... which they did for years, and it influenced heavily his portrayal in AC, which I thoroughly hated (maybe some do remember my old old complains about it); it's no surprise that ACC had to have a heavy lifting on his characterisation, to allow fans to understand his reasons for acting the way he did.

As for Aerith, they completely redid her character, there's very little left of her in Remake. Plus, tons of background explaining her reactions, etc - what they did with her was absolutely great.

 

[Golden Ear]

Really surprised at the disapproval of the OG here, especially the Cloud and Aerith characterisations. What is wrong with them, exactly?

Remake -does- have strong points for sure, but overall I prefer the og approach which leaves more room for imagination, and even some of the actual story choices. The 'Jaws' mystery approach with Sephiroth, for example, rather than him appearing in every coffee shop and grocery store with his 'Helloooooo Clooooouuuud'. I also prefer the characterisation of Aerith, who in the og isn't some kind of weird Time Sage with future knowledge.

The pacing is also FAR better in the og, for me at least. Remake felt bloated.

Again, remake has strong points for sure, and does improve upon the og in a few ways, but I don't support the idea that it's far better at all. Not even close.

/edit

After reading some responses, Cold, as usual, has a superb take.

Actually I agree with you. When you're given the room to project your own idealizations of the characters in your head it will always be better because it's your own subjective idealizations, it serves your own personal imagination and preference to how the characters come across.

That's why in a way the Remake was doomed from the start, it can never please everyone because of these reasons. All we can do is enjoy it or not enjoy it for what it is, a different experience.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Actually I agree with you. When you're given the room to project your own idealizations of the characters in your head it will always be better because it's your own subjective idealizations, it serves your own personal imagination and preference to how the characters come across.

That's why in a way the Remake was doomed from the start, it can never please everyone because of these reasons. All we can do is enjoy it or not enjoy it for what it is, a different experience.

It’s pretty much why a lot of the discourse about what the remake “should have” been is honestly pretty fruitless to me, all it does is stoke the flames of perpetual disappointment

 

[Sibil]

It's pretty funny to me that their solution to upping the stakes is to add destiny. Anyway, OG for me.