LOVELESS - When did the play first start being shown?

Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Genesis would undoubtedly know the answer to this, but since he's not here, I'll ask you guys. I was thinking about LOVELESS and I know it was originally a book of poetry as Crisis Core showed us. But when it did first get shown as a play? It's there by the time of FFVII, but is the play new or had it been around for a few years? And it's been around, is there anything that tells how long? The wiki page is a little vague about when it was turned into a play.
 
Teioh

Teioh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Teiocho
Cid says this when talking about LOVELESS at the Northern Crater in OG:

Yeah? Really? Well, that's fine.
They've been doin' that play every summer since I was a kid.
An' I remember seein' it just once...
That was when I was in Midgar interviewing to be a pilot.
Click to expand...

So depends on what age he meant when referring to himself as a kid but around 25 - 30 years maybe? :mon:
 
C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
The fifth act is missing, so it's probably a damaged incomplete manuscript that no one knows the true ending of. Per Genesis, there are various theories about how it was supposed to end, but no one knows for sure.

It's old enough that Hojo read it to help his research, presumably looking for information on the Cetra or the Calamity, and he was disappointed to find it to be a Cetra romantic drama.

I expect different productions probably put on their own endings, unless the production is run by the Historical Society. I believe there's an email in CC that talks about how a specific run of LOVELESS focuses more on the perspective of the female characters.

Odysseus probably doesn't want to hear about the odyssey. It was hard enough to live through the first time.
 
waw

waw

Pro Adventurer
I was going over some of my notes and found my Loveless section incomplete. I went to the FF wiki (sad) and found their article really wanting on it. I even searched CC scripts (because it's been a while). Can anyone here help me answer these questions?

1. Do we have more of the Poem than this:
Prologue
When the war of the beasts brings about the world's end
The goddess descends from the sky
Wings of light and dark spread afar
She guides us to bliss, her gift everlasting

Act I
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess
We seek it thus, and take to the sky
Ripples form on the water's surface
The wandering soul knows no rest.

Act II
There is no hate, only joy
For you are beloved by the goddess
Hero of the dawn, Healer of worlds
Dreams of the morrow hath the shattered soul
Pride is lost
Wings stripped away, the end is nigh

Act III
My friend, do you fly away now?
To a world that abhors you and I?
All that awaits you is a somber morrow
No matter where the winds may blow
My friend, your desire
Is the bringer of life, the gift of the goddess
Even if the morrow is barren of promises
Nothing shall forestall my return

Act IV
My friend, the fates are cruel
There are no dreams, no honor remains
The arrow has left the bow of the goddess
My soul, corrupted by vengeance
Hath endured torment, to find the end of the journey
In my own salvation
And your eternal slumber
Legend shall speak
Of sacrifice at world's end
The wind sails over the water's surface
Quietly, but surely

Act V
...
Even if the morrow is barren of promises
Nothing shall forestall my return
…

(Written by Genesis)
To become the dew that quenches the land
To spare the sands, the seas, the skies
I offer thee this silent sacrifice

2. Tablets beneath Banora contain fragments of the original poem. Does this mean it was written by the Cetra?
3. In the CC script, there's a brief line about the "hero," "prisoner," and "the one who will take flight." Is this the only place that is referenced? Isn't there also a line about one finding a woman? I guess, do we have anything clear on three friends?
enesis: The three friends are now gathered. One becomes the prisoner. One will
take flight. The last remaining friend becomes the hero.
Sephiroth: That's quite the story.

4. I'm having a spot of trouble combing through theLifestream's articles but are there Ultimania tidbits on this?
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
No we really don't. It's mostly ambiguous because it hasn't been featured anywhere else prominently. It was mostly explored in Crisis Core, and with that it's not been revisited.
 
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Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
@waw
Didn't see this until recently... And yes, there is Ultimania entries for Loveless... at least two of them in fact... There's also some info in an e-mail Zack gets... there's also Loveless in the OG... where it was already playing the role of meta-commentary on the story of FFVII... just in a very easily overlooked spot.
10th Anniversary Ultimania said:
Loveless
『FFVII』 『CC』
A classic epic poem in five acts. The final act is missing, and although research is underway by experts, the ending has not been revealed. It has been performed as a play in Midgar for many years, and is so familiar to people that the area around the theater is called LOVELESS Avenue.
Click to expand...
Crisis Core Ultimania said:
"Loveless"
A classic epic poem known as "A story of love and friendship on the road to destruction". It is the story of three best friends who are seeking the "Gift of the Goddess". They eventually share a common road and end up fighting each other. It is a story with five acts, but the ending is not known because the last act is lost. The second and third acts are particularly famous, and are performed every year in Midgar as a romance play and are very popular.
Click to expand...
The terms for "classic epic poem" are [古典叙事詩]. The best comparison I can make for a more Western audience is that it's something like the Iliad or the Odyssey. The Epic of Gilgamesh probably isn't too far off either... Either way... Loveless is probably really old, to the point no one knows who actually wrote it... Funny how the Iliad, the Odyssey and the Epic of Gilgamesh are all over the 2,000 year-old mark IRL... And the Cetra were around that long ago as well...

The CC Complete Guide also has a lot of commentary on Loveless. I'm putting this here less to call attention to what Geneis is doing based on it and more because it describes what happens *in* the poem itself. And Hojo (of all people) rounds this out by having some information on what is in Loveless...
Crisis Core Complete Guide said:
from Final Chapter of LOVELESS
The final chapter of LOVELESS is lost, with only a single line remaining: Nothing shall forestall my return. Even if the morrow is
barren of promises. The biggest mystery is what happened to the world after receiving the Gift of the Goddess, and differing opinions are rife among researchers of LOVELESS.
Click to expand...
Crisis Core Complete Guide said:
from The Gift of the Goddess
The object that the three heroes of LOVELESS were searching for. [,,,] The general theory is that the result of receiving the Gift of the Goddess is perpetual youth and longevity which in turn is connected to theories regarding the health benefits of Banora White apples. Moreover, while it is impossible for a person to become ageless, it is proposed that theory can be applied to the Planet, and in this case the Gift of the Goddess becomes “Nothing is wasted in destruction” or “All will be healed in time”.
Click to expand...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hojo
"LOVELESS" Act IV.
Where the two friends challenge each other to a duel.
An ancient epic.
I read it thinking it might aid my research, but...pure drivel.

Angeal
How does the duel end?

Hojo
Unknown.
The last act is missing, and yet to be discovered.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These also set the tone for what Loveless is about. And by all accounts, it's not a happy story. It's about three people who start out as friends on an epic quest, get split apart by war, and then have to leave their loved ones behind to go meet back with their friends to complete the quest... only to fight each other eventually. And how the fight ends isn't known. It also seems that the world *did* receive whatever the Gift of the Goddess is... but how that turned out isn't known *either* for the same reason.

That the "Gift of the Goddess" seems to be some kind of "fountain of youth" is also noteworthy as is that it seems to *maybe* apply to the entire Planter rather than an individual. Especially in the context of Loveless happening during a war. It might also just be me, but the goddess leading people to "bliss"

Hojo researching it is also *really* weird and probably one of the best pieces of evidence that Loveless is something the Cetra might have been involved with. Hojo *was* obsessed with the Cetra until he found out what Jenova was after all...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Went to see LOVELESS
From: Kunsel

Genesis, K.I.A?
Yeah, right. Who do they think they’re trying to fool?

Just got back from seeing the stage production of LOVELESS in Midgar. Genesis was a big fan, wasn’t he?I usually don’t care for classic drama, but it was pretty damned good. The guy is the hero in the original, but the play was more from the viewpoint of the girl who helps the guy. When I heard that last line: “Of course… I’ll come back to you. Even if you don’t promise to wait. I’ll return knowing that you’ll be here.”

Aw, man, that’s when I lost it and just started bawling.
---------------------------------------------------------------
This has some really interesting stuff in it. The biggest implication is that the *play* Loveless shifts around who is the "main character" from the *epic poem* Loveless. It also isn't *all* of Loveless, just part of it. Namely the parts with the romance plot in it. The quotes of this are also interesting, as this isn't the first place they've cropped up in the Compilation. That would belong to the OG...

Loveless in the OG is frankly really easy to miss. It only really comes out if you pick the right dialogue option with Cid right before you have the final boss fight against Sephiroth. But what Cid *says* about Loveless in relationship to the events going on in the FFVII story is... really interesting. Mainly because it's almost exactly how Genesis uses it to commentate on what *he* thinks is going on in the CC story...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cid
You ever see the play 'LOVELESS'?

Cloud
Yes

Cid
Yeah? Really? Well, that's fine.
They've been doin' that play every summer since I was a kid.
An' I remember seein' it just once...
That was when I was in Midgar interviewing to be a pilot.
I had some free time and thought I'd catch the play.
Now, I'm no big fan of the theater or anything.
But this thing put me to sleep, just like I thought it would.
Finally during the last scene, the guy next to me woke me up tellin' me my snorin' was too loud.
So about all I really remember of that play is the end...
The sister of the lead asks her lover,
"Do you really have to leave?"
And the guy says,
"I promised. The people I love, are waiting."
"......I don't understand. Not at all. But...... please take care of yourself."
"Of course... I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here."
I remember thinking when I heard those lines,
*&%! What the hell's he talkin' about? But, you know... now I'm not so sure...
I think I understand......
---------------------------------------------------------------
This is... ironicly... the best source on what the "play" version of Loveless is about when taken in conjunction with Kunsel's e-mail and the synopis of Loveless from Crisis Core.

What seems to have happened is that the "Prisoner" fell in love with someone from the enemy nation who takes care of him. And then her sister helps them out somehow. Only for word from the other two friends (the "Hero" and the "Wanderer") to reach him that he needs to help them complete their quest for the Gift of the Goddess. The "Prisoner" leaves his lover and promises to come back to her. And then the play ends.

Only... the play is told from the point of view of the sister of the "Prisoner's" lover. So that would make it an... "Outsider PoV" fan-fic essentially. I guess like if the Odessy was told from oh... Athena's pov? Or if the Iliad was told from Oddesyus? Something like that. Regardless, it sounds like there's been a fair ammount of... liberty... taken with the play (it only uses half of the *known* play for instance) that isn't there in the Poem.

(Side Tangent: I would *not* be surprised if "I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here." is the "modern" play version of "Even if the morrow is barren of promises, Nothing shall forestall my return". Not only do they have more or less the same idea, they're even in the right *act* of the play...)

This *is* helpful for knowing what is going on in the "epic poetry" version though, especially *where* the "epic poetry" version seems to have placed most of it's emphasis. A full half of it is about the "Prisoner" and his relationship with the woman who saved him rather than the "Hero" or the "Wanderer". They only seem to be present in Acts 1 and 4. The Prologue seems to be about the war and the Gift of the Goddess that is linked to happiness (more directly in JP than in English... but still...). Act 1 seems to be mostly about the friends making the oath to *find* the Gift of the Goddess and then they get separated by the war. Act 4 is about how they all come together again... and end up fighting either other instead of working together... and still the world gets the Gift of the Goddess anyway. How the world got it, we don't know. And then the poem ends! The missing act seems to be what would tie up the loose ends. How the fight between the friends ended, what the Gift of the Goddess actually did to the world, etc.

One thing that is *really* hard to avoid in the CC Ultimanias (and *not just* on Genesis' pages!) is how *often* things in CC are compared to events of Loveless, even events that aren't mentioned in game are refereed too in this way. Stuff like how Sephiroth, Angeal and Gensis are like the three friends in Loveless, how the Junon Canon fight is like the time the three frends fight each other... how when Zack and Genesis fight each other at the end of CC (when Zack restores Genesis honor) it's as if Zack is *imitating* one of Loveless's descriptions, "the Reuniting of Best Friends". Like... *someone* on the CC dev team *really* liked playing with and referencing Loveless. And they were doing it as early as the OG in a similar way... Given Nojima *was* the writer of Crisis Core... he's currently who I'm suspecting is the fan. I'm kinda bracing for Loveless to make a reappearance in Remake. And we already know the "play" is now a "musical" and has a different ending than it used to have in Remake...

Ultimately, the fact that one of the descriptors of Loveless is "The Reuniting of Best Friends" kinda says what the main theme of it is.
 
J

jeangl123

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jean
Obsidian Fire said:
@waw
Didn't see this until recently... And yes, there is Ultimania entries for Loveless... at least two of them in fact... There's also some info in an e-mail Zack gets... there's also Loveless in the OG... where it was already playing the role of meta-commentary on the story of FFVII... just in a very easily overlooked spot.

The terms for "classic epic poem" are [古典叙事詩]. The best comparison I can make for a more Western audience is that it's something like the Iliad or the Odyssey. The Epic of Gilgamesh probably isn't too far off either... Either way... Loveless is probably really old, to the point no one knows who actually wrote it... Funny how the Iliad, the Odyssey and the Epic of Gilgamesh are all over the 2,000 year-old mark IRL... And the Cetra were around that long ago as well...

The CC Complete Guide also has a lot of commentary on Loveless. I'm putting this here less to call attention to what Geneis is doing based on it and more because it describes what happens *in* the poem itself. And Hojo (of all people) rounds this out by having some information on what is in Loveless...


---------------------------------------------------------------
Hojo
"LOVELESS" Act IV.
Where the two friends challenge each other to a duel.
An ancient epic.
I read it thinking it might aid my research, but...pure drivel.

Angeal
How does the duel end?

Hojo
Unknown.
The last act is missing, and yet to be discovered.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These also set the tone for what Loveless is about. And by all accounts, it's not a happy story. It's about three people who start out as friends on an epic quest, get split apart by war, and then have to leave their loved ones behind to go meet back with their friends to complete the quest... only to fight each other eventually. And how the fight ends isn't known. It also seems that the world *did* receive whatever the Gift of the Goddess is... but how that turned out isn't known *either* for the same reason.

That the "Gift of the Goddess" seems to be some kind of "fountain of youth" is also noteworthy as is that it seems to *maybe* apply to the entire Planter rather than an individual. Especially in the context of Loveless happening during a war. It might also just be me, but the goddess leading people to "bliss"

Hojo researching it is also *really* weird and probably one of the best pieces of evidence that Loveless is something the Cetra might have been involved with. Hojo *was* obsessed with the Cetra until he found out what Jenova was after all...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Went to see LOVELESS
From: Kunsel

Genesis, K.I.A?
Yeah, right. Who do they think they’re trying to fool?

Just got back from seeing the stage production of LOVELESS in Midgar. Genesis was a big fan, wasn’t he?I usually don’t care for classic drama, but it was pretty damned good. The guy is the hero in the original, but the play was more from the viewpoint of the girl who helps the guy. When I heard that last line: “Of course… I’ll come back to you. Even if you don’t promise to wait. I’ll return knowing that you’ll be here.”

Aw, man, that’s when I lost it and just started bawling.
---------------------------------------------------------------
This has some really interesting stuff in it. The biggest implication is that the *play* Loveless shifts around who is the "main character" from the *epic poem* Loveless. It also isn't *all* of Loveless, just part of it. Namely the parts with the romance plot in it. The quotes of this are also interesting, as this isn't the first place they've cropped up in the Compilation. That would belong to the OG...

Loveless in the OG is frankly really easy to miss. It only really comes out if you pick the right dialogue option with Cid right before you have the final boss fight against Sephiroth. But what Cid *says* about Loveless in relationship to the events going on in the FFVII story is... really interesting. Mainly because it's almost exactly how Genesis uses it to commentate on what *he* thinks is going on in the CC story...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cid
You ever see the play 'LOVELESS'?

Cloud
Yes

Cid
Yeah? Really? Well, that's fine.
They've been doin' that play every summer since I was a kid.
An' I remember seein' it just once...
That was when I was in Midgar interviewing to be a pilot.
I had some free time and thought I'd catch the play.
Now, I'm no big fan of the theater or anything.
But this thing put me to sleep, just like I thought it would.
Finally during the last scene, the guy next to me woke me up tellin' me my snorin' was too loud.
So about all I really remember of that play is the end...
The sister of the lead asks her lover,
"Do you really have to leave?"
And the guy says,
"I promised. The people I love, are waiting."
"......I don't understand. Not at all. But...... please take care of yourself."
"Of course... I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here."
I remember thinking when I heard those lines,
*&%! What the hell's he talkin' about? But, you know... now I'm not so sure...
I think I understand......
---------------------------------------------------------------
This is... ironicly... the best source on what the "play" version of Loveless is about when taken in conjunction with Kunsel's e-mail and the synopis of Loveless from Crisis Core.

What seems to have happened is that the "Prisoner" fell in love with someone from the enemy nation who takes care of him. And then her sister helps them out somehow. Only for word from the other two friends (the "Hero" and the "Wanderer") to reach him that he needs to help them complete their quest for the Gift of the Goddess. The "Prisoner" leaves his lover and promises to come back to her. And then the play ends.

Only... the play is told from the point of view of the sister of the "Prisoner's" lover. So that would make it an... "Outsider PoV" fan-fic essentially. I guess like if the Odessy was told from oh... Athena's pov? Or if the Iliad was told from Oddesyus? Something like that. Regardless, it sounds like there's been a fair ammount of... liberty... taken with the play (it only uses half of the *known* play for instance) that isn't there in the Poem.

(Side Tangent: I would *not* be surprised if "I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here." is the "modern" play version of "Even if the morrow is barren of promises, Nothing shall forestall my return". Not only do they have more or less the same idea, they're even in the right *act* of the play...)

This *is* helpful for knowing what is going on in the "epic poetry" version though, especially *where* the "epic poetry" version seems to have placed most of it's emphasis. A full half of it is about the "Prisoner" and his relationship with the woman who saved him rather than the "Hero" or the "Wanderer". They only seem to be present in Acts 1 and 4. The Prologue seems to be about the war and the Gift of the Goddess that is linked to happiness (more directly in JP than in English... but still...). Act 1 seems to be mostly about the friends making the oath to *find* the Gift of the Goddess and then they get separated by the war. Act 4 is about how they all come together again... and end up fighting either other instead of working together... and still the world gets the Gift of the Goddess anyway. How the world got it, we don't know. And then the poem ends! The missing act seems to be what would tie up the loose ends. How the fight between the friends ended, what the Gift of the Goddess actually did to the world, etc.

One thing that is *really* hard to avoid in the CC Ultimanias (and *not just* on Genesis' pages!) is how *often* things in CC are compared to events of Loveless, even events that aren't mentioned in game are refereed too in this way. Stuff like how Sephiroth, Angeal and Gensis are like the three friends in Loveless, how the Junon Canon fight is like the time the three frends fight each other... how when Zack and Genesis fight each other at the end of CC (when Zack restores Genesis honor) it's as if Zack is *imitating* one of Loveless's descriptions, "the Reuniting of Best Friends". Like... *someone* on the CC dev team *really* liked playing with and referencing Loveless. And they were doing it as early as the OG in a similar way... Given Nojima *was* the writer of Crisis Core... he's currently who I'm suspecting is the fan. I'm kinda bracing for Loveless to make a reappearance in Remake. And we already know the "play" is now a "musical" and has a different ending than it used to have in Remake...

Ultimately, the fact that one of the descriptors of Loveless is "The Reuniting of Best Friends" kinda says what the main theme of it is.
Click to expand...

Cid's version feels like it could have been weirdly translated to me. Specifically the part about the sister of the female lead helping the guy? Kunsel only talks about one girl that helps the guy, but i'm guessing it might be impossible to double-check that.
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
I've always assumed LOVELESS was a bit like Shakespeare, or maybe something even older - like Oedipus Rex or one of the Chinese classics. And that it gets the same treatment, constantly being re-interpreted, re-written, re-set, in the same way that Macbeth, say, was reimagined by Kurosawa as Throne of Blood, or Romeo and Juliet was translated to New York and became the musical West Side Story.
 
J

jeangl123

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jean
That makes sense. Lines up with this.

From: Study Group

Contents:

LOVELESS on stage is as popular as ever. This year's production retains the love story from the female point of view, with the focus on Acts II and III, as usual. This interpretation features additional scenes of the two friends, making it closer to the original text. Acts II and III of LOVELESS have become famous thanks to the plays, but pundits agree that the story's true value lies in Act IV. Could this year's production make up for it? Join us at the theater as we decide for ourselves.
 
Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
I have some more information on this... both from an in-game and meta perspective.

It turns out, the "protagonist" of Loveless is the "Prisoner" and the not the "Hero". So the story is indeed mostly about the Prisoner for a very good reason. The "Hero" is the one who gets the "Planet's Divine Protection" though, which is said to be the Lifestream... and exactly what Genesis gets when he turns into Genesis Avatar...

In-universe, this is known as "a story of love and friendship headed for destruction".

From a meta perspective, it turns out Tabata was the one that decided Loveless would be such a huge thing! More specifically, it was his idea to have Genesis be interested it and for it to have such a huge part in CC's plot. Go figure.

On a more annoying front though... there's a *huge* localization problem with Act V of Loveless. Probably the biggest one in all of Crisis Core (which is saying something given CC has the *least* localization problems in the Compilation...).

The third line of Act V of Loveless officially is... "To become the dew that quenches the land"

In Japanese it's... "星の希望の雫となりて"

The big problem here is with "land" and "quenches". The JP word getting translated as "land" is [星]. Which is the kanji for "star/planet/heavenly body"... and in FFVII is *always* translated as Planet... as in... the Planet FFVII is happening on. How [星] could be localized as "land" when there's.... a bunch of other words that *do* mean land (one of which *does* get used in the next line) is.... *really* odd.

"Quenches"... isn't there at all. It seems that [希望] is where it comes from which is equally odd. [希望] is the kanji for "wish/hope/aspiration/desire". So yeah. No idea how someone got "quenches" from that either.

The rest of the sentence is more or less right given that it *is* poetry. A more literal translation would be "To become a drop of the Planet's hope". Substituting any of the other terms for "hope" works just as well... So something like "to become a drop of the Planet's desire" also works.

So Act V of Loveless should actually read something like...
Even if the morrow is barren of promises
Nothing shall forestall my return
To become a drop of the Planet's hope
To spare the sands, the seas, the skies
I offer thee this silent sacrifice
Click to expand...
 
Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
LicoriceAllsorts said:
Tabata was right. Every culture has foundational works of literature, and they're usually if not always epic poems/legends. It's nice they decided to give the world of FFVII one.
Click to expand...
And the FFVII world desperately needs more backstory to make it feel "lived in". One of the weaknesses of the setting is the gaping years of history between Jenova wiping the Cetra out and when Shinra came to power. Having literature a bunch of people obsess over is... almost a human universal across all cultures too. So it works out really well on paper at least.

This actually seems to be what was going on with Loveless in the OG even (before Tabata was even at Square). Tabata just took what the OG did with Loveless (commentary on what was going on in the FFVII story) and turned it up to eleven in CC. And made it impossible for the player to ignore it.
 
Last edited:
Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
ph14basicbitch said:
It really doesn't seem that strange when you realize someone saw the 雫/滴 and probably got a certain image in their head.
Click to expand...
The trouble I have is that "quench the land" doesn't make me think of water. It makes me think of a land being made *barren* of any life in it. So I was... reading "to become the dew to quench the land" almost as "to become a poison to the land". Which is... the opposite of what the line actually means. In English, "to quench" is a synonem for "to end". When someone "quenches their thirst" it really means that they "end their thirst" by drinking something. "Quenching a fire" means ending a fire, etc. So... "to quench the land" means... to end the land...

Which... kinda isn't a great thing to wind up at when the starting point is "hope of the Planet"...

It's a really good example of picking poetry/artistry over clarity in localization and winding up at what could easily be taken to be the opposite meaning of the actual meaning just going by the most straightforward reading of it. Which *really* confuses what is going on in the scene that line in for anyone who doesn't know how to look up the original language and translate it....
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
They probably did intend it in the "satisfy one's thirst" meaning, but in fact quench does mean end or put out, i.e. quench one's thirst means to end one's thirst by drinking. This is what happens when people only know/use a word in one very limited context.
 
Leafonthebreeze

Leafonthebreeze

Any/All
AKA
Leaf
I'd say quench definitely has specific "water" vibes for me, I would 100% read "quench the land with dew" to mean soak/water/restore the land - the parched land being "thirsty" and the dew "quenching" that thirst. Reading it as "end/poison" the land wouldn't even slightly occur to me!

...quench seems like such a weird word now I've said it a bunch of times though...
 
J

jeangl123

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jean
Obsidian Fire said:
I have some more information on this... both from an in-game and meta perspective.

It turns out, the "protagonist" of Loveless is the "Prisoner" and the not the "Hero". So the story is indeed mostly about the Prisoner for a very good reason. The "Hero" is the one who gets the "Planet's Divine Protection" though, which is said to be the Lifestream... and exactly what Genesis gets when he turns into Genesis Avatar...

In-universe, this is known as "a story of love and friendship headed for destruction".

From a meta perspective, it turns out Tabata was the one that decided Loveless would be such a huge thing! More specifically, it was his idea to have Genesis be interested it and for it to have such a huge part in CC's plot. Go figure.

On a more annoying front though... there's a *huge* localization problem with Act V of Loveless. Probably the biggest one in all of Crisis Core (which is saying something given CC has the *least* localization problems in the Compilation...).

The third line of Act V of Loveless officially is... "To become the dew that quenches the land"

In Japanese it's... "星の希望の雫となりて"

The big problem here is with "land" and "quenches". The JP word getting translated as "land" is [星]. Which is the kanji for "star/planet/heavenly body"... and in FFVII is *always* translated as Planet... as in... the Planet FFVII is happening on. How [星] could be localized as "land" when there's.... a bunch of other words that *do* mean land (one of which *does* get used in the next line) is.... *really* odd.

"Quenches"... isn't there at all. It seems that [希望] is where it comes from which is equally odd. [希望] is the kanji for "wish/hope/aspiration/desire". So yeah. No idea how someone got "quenches" from that either.

The rest of the sentence is more or less right given that it *is* poetry. A more literal translation would be "To become a drop of the Planet's hope". Substituting any of the other terms for "hope" works just as well... So something like "to become a drop of the Planet's desire" also works.

So Act V of Loveless should actually read something like...
Click to expand...
Makes sense that the Prisoner is the protagonist as the description in Act II seems to fit with Cloud.

Though the prisoner escapes, he is gravely wounded

His life is saved, however

By a woman of the opposing nation


He begins a life of seclusion with her

Which seems to hold the promise of eternal bliss


But as happiness grows, so does guilt

Of not fulfilling the oath to his friends

Cloud escapes from Shinra and is gravely wounded before being found by Tifa. She also saves him in the lifestream and he lives in seclusion with her.

Nomura said this about AC Cloud in an interview.
“He still found a peaceful life. And that made him scared. He lost it once already and he could lose it all again. Even though he was there, he couldn’t do anything to prevent it last time. So the happier he is, the more lonely he becomes.”

He feels guilt for not fulfilling the oath to his friends.

"I said i'd live out both our lives. Easy to make that promise."
 
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